Digital Switchover - UTV Region (DigitalUK)

mrdtv2010

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Why a Yagi? Certainly, I've been led to believe that those "grid" types with 4 dipoles have a reasonably tight HRP when vertically polarised, certainly comparable to a VP Yagi with a similar gain figure.

This has already been dealt with by reslfj, so I won't dwell on the fact that it's a pretty fundamental error to confuse behavior as a wanted signal with potential to cause interference.

Here's the tutorial for you: note the comments about transmitters in the same general direction:

http://aerialsandtv.com/aerials.html#GridAerials

FREETV

watty wrote: »

Apart from some high end UK Freeview HD PVRs, there are ONLY rebadged Vestel or worse boxes than Vestel if you want any sort of certified compatibility, so that's strange advice.

updated for Post ASO www.saortv.info

I meant people in the North who want to receive the Minimux. They are supposed to be able to receive the stations as they are Freeview HD T2 receivers, a couple of others have posted earlier back that they have the same Metronic Freeview HD box and a Bush Freeview HD box and cannot receive them due to a software bug. Both are made by Vestel and rebadged. I understand what you are saying though Watty and it is noted. They need to fix the problem sharpish as they say.

Ronnie Raygun

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Here's the tutorial for you: note the comments about transmitters in the same general direction:

http://aerialsandtv.com/aerials.html#GridAerials

aerialsandtv? You went out of your way to find that. Just check any manufacturers figures for beamwidth of a v. pol. grid & a Yagi (probably won't specify H or V) of the same gain.

giveherlong

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

Sorry but that is really weird, I bet it turns out to be something simple. Have you checked with any neibours you know who have RTE aerials if they are getting Saorview?

i must give a couple of them a shout over the weekend

giveherlong

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

What is the make and model of the Freeview HD box?

It's a Triax T2-HD115 Zapper

giveherlong

Peter Rhea wrote: »

And it isn't in use atm? Did the 'newer analogue tv' replace it, or were both in use at the same time?

no its not in use

the new annalogue TV and the grundig were being used at the same time from the same aerial point i.e. if the champions league was on TV3 i would hook up the old grundig TV

egal

FREETV wrote: »

People should avoid all Vestel made products as they have two software glitches, one is no information for the Saorview EPG and the second is that it won't recognise the new N.I. Minimux or tune them in, disgraceful for such an expensive Metronic Zapbox Freeview HD box when it was bought. Other people have the same problem with the Vestel manufactured Bush Freeview HD boxes also. Edit I just sent an email to Metronic about the two problems and requested a software update to fix the bugs. Here is a link to contact them for other Metronic T2 HD zapbox owners/users. http://www.metronic.com/index2.php?p=contact&lang=UK Click on you are a customer to send them an email. Let's put them under pressure to fix these major glitches. It is up to them to get Vestel to sort out any problems.

Thanks for the link. E-mail send (sic) just there now. Should we start a new thread on this one? Wonder what the chance is of them actually doing anything?

FREETV

egal wrote: »

Thanks for the link. E-mail send (sic) just there now. Should we start a new thread on this one? Wonder what the chance is of them actually doing anything?

They may ignore us unless a lot more Metronic and Vestel customers, Argos customers kick up a fuss. For example it took two years for Ross to fix audio problems with their HD sat receivers until they made new firmware available and I was given the "did you try a factory reset" crap from them. They still have other problems software wise that were never fixed yet, freezing, locking etc. All Vestel made rebadged Freeview HD would need to be named on this site for others. I think that maybe STB already named a lot of the so called brands made by Vestel some time ago. Yes, you could or should start a new thread on this. People need to be informed.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

Signal quality for ch 23 from Divis is around 15-20% this evening. No breakup noticed on picture (yet!).

Signal quality near zero now on 23 from Divis. Frequent breakup of picture and sound.

FREETV

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

Signal quality near zero now on 23 from Divis. Frequent breakup of picture and sound.

Wind, I expect or interference and low pressure.

Mr Cumulonimbus

FREETV wrote: »

Wind, I expect or interference and low pressure.

Mt Leinster, also on 23. 100% signal quality from Divis on that frequency before it came on yesterday evening. In Dundalk.

FREETV

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

Mt Leinster, also on 23. 100% signal quality from Divis on that frequency before it came on yesterday evening. In Dundalk.

Get on to Comreg and RTENL about it.

Peter Rhea

giveherlong wrote: »

the new annalogue TV and the grundig were being used at the same time from the same aerial point i.e. if the champions league was on TV3 i would hook up the old grundig TV

Well, since others have asked for the make & model of your Freeview HD receiver, I'll keep my unpowered amplifier theory going, though I would think the typical aerial & combiner setup for Carnmoney & Clermont would most likely result in practically no signal with an unpowered amp. Maybe the Grundig tv just has a better tuner.

Mr Cumulonimbus

FREETV wrote: »

Get on to Comreg and RTENL about it.

Unlikely they'd be bothered about it FREETV, considering that Divis is outside the jurisdiction. There was a poster from South Armagh further up the thread commenting that he'd also lost Divis on 23 from last night. Interesting to see if any other people in NI have lost or have interference on 23 from Mt L.

How's Divis on 23 for you? I think you said you were near Balbriggan? Wicklow & Dublin Mountains may be shielding you from Mt L interference?

lawhec

The SDN and Arqiva multiplexes on Freeview are on frequencies that are more liable to co-channel interference compared to the three PSB muxs, so such interference may have to be taken as given unfortunately. However I'm a little surprised, even considering it's Mt. Leinster we're talking about here, that it's causing interference to SDN reception in a couple of places in South Armagh and Louth considering the distances and directions involved.

tvman2

Just in and had a quick check: ch 23 from Divis - fluctuating signal quality and level 0% a lot of the time (picture freezing etc) all other channels showing around 85% signal quality, up to 100% signal level. Grid aerial in the attic with standard group A amp. 10km SW of Dundalk.

FREETV

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

Unlikely they'd be bothered about it FREETV, considering that Divis is outside the jurisdiction. There was a poster from South Armagh further up the thread commenting that he'd also lost Divis on 23 from last night. Interesting to see if any other people in NI have lost or have interference on 23 from Mt L.

How's Divis on 23 for you? I think you said you were near Balbriggan? Wicklow & Dublin Mountains may be shielding you from Mt L interference?

No problems here even in this atrocious weather I am pleased to say.

Iderown

Mods - please move this to a more appropriate thread if necessary.

Have noticed that the HD MUX only from Bangor has gone to very poor quality (not watchable HD channels) but still at high strength.
I should mention that Bangor relay is received here (2km from transmitter) on to the side of the group C/D aerial. All the other multiplexes (from Divis, Black Mountain, Clermont Carn) are 100% quality.

Is there a web site/email address to report problems or seek clarification?

Maybe go looking for neighbours who use this relay?

Almost immediate addition: May be caused by co-channel from Newtownards. The aerial for Clermont (group C/D vertical) is aimed 15 or 20 degrees west of Newtownards. But, no sign of co-channel interference on the other multiplexes on E50 and E55.

The Cush

TV switchover help scheme runs out of HD digital boxes - BBC
Irish TV will cost most viewers extra - Belfast Telegraph

Fingleberries

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

I noticed in yesterday's flood of posts that some people weren't getting Kilkeel HDTV (BBCB,E39+).

This could be because:

a) Their equipment is Freeview SD or Saorview. It has to be FreeviewHD.

b) There could be CCI issues with the NIMM transmissions from Black Mountain. This is on the same channel but with horizontal polarisation so there should be a protection ratio of 20dB between cross-polar transmissions.This is location dependent.

c) If you have Freeview HDTV equipment you may need to do manual tuning.

d) Grid aerials don't have the directionality of conventional Yagis.

Thanks to all for their help so far. I can confirm that my PVR is a FreeviewHD model. I have tried doing a manual search on channel 39, but it says 0 channels found.

I'm not sure the model of my Aerial, as it came with the house, it looks like a grid aerial, though. I can post a picture later today, if that would help.

Perhaps a total newbie question, but I see that the UKFreeTv site that it lists Kilkeel HD as being on channel 39+, does that make any great difference from just 39?

For a manual scan, would it be worth manually entering the frequency 618.2MHz, rather than selecting Channel 39 (618.0MHz)?
(don't worry, I'm already embarrassed asking the question, and will take any mocking due my way )

mrdtv2010

tvman2 wrote: »

Just in and had a quick check: ch 23 from Divis - fluctuating signal quality and level 0% a lot of the time (picture freezing etc) all other channels showing around 85% signal quality, up to 100% signal level. Grid aerial in the attic with standard group A amp. 10km SW of Dundalk.

I don't think Mount Leinster is the offender: its Caldbeck, which is much closer. Its COM muxes are cochannel with Divis COMs and were ALSO powered up on the 24th from 12.5kW to 50kW. Far more likely as its in the same general direction from Louth and South Armagh. And there are lift conditions in the cold nights.

mrdtv2010

FREETV wrote: »

No problems here even in this atrocious weather I am pleased to say.

You are out of range of Caldbeck CCI on the COM muxes as you are too far south unlike those in Louth or South Armagh.

tvman2

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

I don't think Mount Leinster is the offender: its Caldbeck, which is much closer. Its COM muxes are cochannel with Divis COMs and were ALSO powered up on the 24th from 12.5kW to 50kW. Far more likely as its in the same general direction from Louth and South Armagh. And there are lift conditions in the cold nights.

If that's it, suppose there's no solution. Any point in connecting an aerial outside and pointing it to Caldbeck - something I was thinking of doing anyway but just for experimenting as to what I can receive here and of course Divis will always be there and always the strongest. Outside the aerial would have a 360 degree view to horizon.

mrdtv2010

tvman2 wrote: »

If that's it, suppose there's no solution. Any point in connecting an aerial outside and point it to Caldbeck - something I was thinking of doing anyway but just for experimenting as to what I can receive here. Outside the aerial would have a 360 degree view to horizon

Yes, I'm afraid so. This is a known issue. Caldbeck has had a relationship with Divis in terms of channel clashes since 1998. Last week before DSO I did mention the CCI issue with Caldbeck which uses the same COM frequencies and the DUK postcode checker showed CCI effects in places such as Portavogie on the East Down coast during and after the various technical changes. An outside aerial would pull in Divis very well, possibly Cambret Hill, and Caldbeck occasionally. Caldbeck PSB England muxes can be received in East Down, PSB Scotland can't as they are lower power and there is beam tilting to avoid CCI with Divis PSB's. During lifts you will find that Caldbeck will come in so COM muxes may go down. Winter Hill is also possible. An outside aerial with a rotor offers a lot of Dxing fun but it can be a headache too!

mrdtv2010

Another interesting problem which I encountered yesterday evening at a friends house. Freeview HD TV: all Divis, CC and no NIMM. Reason: Sky HD box with RF distribution to other Tvs, output is set to E40. Changed channel and TV retune: full NIMM service available.

Research afterwards on the web indicates in Greater Belfast area a lot of Sky installers set Sky RF out to E40 because Divis/Black Mountain horizontals pre-DSO were all in E21-E37 range and Clermont Carn analogues were C/D. Several posts on other forums about this.

So check your Sky RF out and make sure you have Freeview HD equipment.!!

watty

The Sky box modulator interferes also with the next channel below the one set.

Richard

Iderown wrote: »

Mods - please move this to a more appropriate thread if necessary.

Have noticed that the HD MUX only from Bangor has gone to very poor quality (not watchable HD channels) but still at high strength.
I should mention that Bangor relay is received here (2km from transmitter) on to the side of the group C/D aerial. All the other multiplexes (from Divis, Black Mountain, Clermont Carn) are 100% quality.

Is there a web site/email address to report problems or seek clarification?

Maybe go looking for neighbours who use this relay?

Almost immediate addition: May be caused by co-channel from Newtownards. The aerial for Clermont (group C/D vertical) is aimed 15 or 20 degrees west of Newtownards. But, no sign of co-channel interference on the other multiplexes on E50 and E55.

Interesting about Bangor - my parents live a couple of miles from the transmitter and never received it on analogue. No need, really, as Divis was very good, but I wonder whether it might be receivable now.

formerly scottish paddy

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Another interesting problem which I encountered yesterday evening at a friends house. Freeview HD TV: all Divis, CC and no NIMM. Reason: Sky HD box with RF distribution to other Tvs, output is set to E40. Changed channel and TV retune: full NIMM service available.

Research afterwards on the web indicates in Greater Belfast area a lot of Sky installers set Sky RF out to E40 because Divis/Black Mountain horizontals pre-DSO were all in E21-E37 range and Clermont Carn analogues were C/D. Several posts on other forums about this.

So check your Sky RF out and make sure you have Freeview HD equipment.!!

Good call, but if you have good CC then I wouldn't worry about NIMM (rights issues and no HD, TV3 etc.)

Peter Rhea

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

I don't think Mount Leinster is the offender: its Caldbeck, which is much closer.

Closer to where? Dundalk is about 145 miles from Caldbeck. It's about 95 miles from Mt.Leinster.

Its COM muxes are cochannel with Divis COMs and were ALSO powered up on the 24th from 12.5kW to 50kW. Far more likely as its in the same general direction from Louth and South Armagh.

All the com. muxes powered up at Caldbeck, including chs. 26 & 29 & it's nowhere near the same direction as Divis from Louth/south Armagh, although we also have to account for sidelobes in the aerial's radiation pattern.

Peter Rhea

Fingleberries wrote: »

I'm not sure the model of my Aerial, as it came with the house, it looks like a grid aerial, though. I can post a picture later today, if that would help.

If you're in north Dublin, the Black Mtn. mast is practically in line with Kilkeel, so nothing to be gained from better directionality. Did you read this post by reslfj?

For a manual scan, would it be worth manually entering the frequency 618.2MHz, rather than selecting Channel 39 (618.0MHz)?

Shouldn't make any difference.