Digital Switchover - UTV Region (DigitalUK)

kazoo106

Same problem here Bush/Vestel T7650 recorder - except sound and no picture

Mr. Rabbit

Digifriendly wrote: »

All channels on Mux 1 from Clermont Carn when tuned in have no sound to begin with and stutter for a moment before picture and sound come into synchronisation. This has been happening from this morning. Anyone else experiencing this and has it got anything to do with Mux 2 testing?

Yep, same at this end, especially the stuttering. I was wondering the same thing myself and did a manual scan on channel 57 but found nothing

The NI mux from Carnmoney Hill and Black Mountain are both unaffected, though I've noticed the lip sync problem on RTE 2HD on the Sky NI service.

Very annoying.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Yep, same at this end, especially the stuttering. I was wondering the same thing myself and did a manual scan on channel 57 but found nothing

The NI mux from Carnmoney Hill and Black Mountain are both unaffected, though I've noticed the lip sync problem on RTE 2HD on the Sky NI service.

Very annoying.

Mux 2 from Clermont Carn is on ch 56.

Mr. Rabbit

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

Mux 2 from Clermont Carn is on ch 56.

I assume Brian Butterworth is wrong then ?

http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=SB173735

Mr Cumulonimbus

Yes, its definitely 56.

Mr. Rabbit

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

Yes, its definitely 56.

Yep, indeed it is.

Mux 2 now testing from Clermont Cairn on 56, so that was obviously the cause of the problems.

Souriau

Update to Multiplexes

Mr. Rabbit

Souriau wrote: »

Update to Multiplexes

Slighly out of date since they fail to mention BBC 1 NI HD on 101 for NI.

MarkK

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Slighly out of date since they fail to mention BBC 1 NI HD on 101 for NI.

It also still has "S4C Clirlun HD" which closed down on 1st of December and Capital TV is missing from the Manchester Mux.

FREETV

Down with my almost eighty year old Dad earlier in Trim and he was annoyed/disappointed now that one of his favourite channels Quest is not receivable, it says zero quality for Ch. 23 on his Metronic Freeview HD and he is missing lots of stations because of the stupid idea of RTENL using CH.23 for Mount Leinster. It boggles the mind and I don't care or want to hear about there not being enough frequencies available, they should just change Mount Leinster to another channel and keep in touch with Digital UK and only allocate other stations which will not cause co-channel interference in future. He asked me why RTENL would use the same channel frequency so I had to tell him the reason obviously. Typical stupid assways way of doing things in Ireland. Amateurs. I don't want to hear about Divis being an outside of the R.O.I territory either as lots of people want to watch Quest in Meath and they should just change to another bloody channel. I doubt it if checking or changing his set up will help much. Happy Christmas everybody regardless of this warranted rant. I am annoyed for him. Two metre long log periodics in an array or lead sheets perhaps may help. :rolleyes: :mad:

Ronnie Raygun

It isn't a stupid idea for RTENL to use channels that have been allocated them by international agreement. They already moved off channel 45 due to the Preseli interference issue. Mt. Leinster is a very high site & will always cause issues for someone, somewhere.

Most people wouldn't even be aware that these channels on the UK com. muxes exist & wouldn't know, or particularly care, why they had them for a couple of weeks & they then disappeared. Don't take the views expressed in this forum as being in any way representative of the wider public.

formerly scottish paddy

It has been said on these forums time and again if you want reliable reception of UK channels then you should be using Freesat, and not whingeing about out of area DTT reception problems!

Digifriendly

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

It has been said on these forums time and again if you want reliable reception of UK channels then you should be using Freesat, and not whingeing about out of area DTT reception problems!

But Quest is not on Freesat.

Skull Murphy

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Most people wouldn't even be aware that these channels on the UK com. muxes exist & wouldn't know, or particularly care, why they had them for a couple of weeks & they then disappeared.

And I'm fairly sure that if it was explained to them why these channels were no longer receivable, most would accept the fact that we are entitled to our own terrestrial tv network & that compromises are necessary for the networks of different countries to co-exist within relatively crowded geographical areas.

whitebriar

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

It isn't a stupid idea for RTENL to use channels that have been allocated them by international agreement. They already moved off channel 45 due to the Preseli interference issue. Mt. Leinster is a very high site & will always cause issues for someone, somewhere.

Most people wouldn't even be aware that these channels on the UK com. muxes exist & wouldn't know, or particularly care, why they had them for a couple of weeks & they then disappeared. Don't take the views expressed in this forum as being in any way representative of the wider public.

what's your connection with RTENL by the way?

FREETV

whitebriar wrote: »

what's your connection with RTENL by the way?

I was thinking the same thing myself earlier when I read the reply.

watty

whitebriar wrote: »

what's your connection with RTENL by the way?

"Ronnie Raygun"?

You had FAR too much Spirits at Christmas if you think that. It's simple. Mt Leinster and Kippure are too far away to interfere with UK viewers of UK Channels, generally. If Irish viewers want UK Terrestrial they have to be getting a good signal from N.I. or Wales or I.O.M. AND A PROFESSIONALLY designed and installed system.

For most people there is no choice, FTA / Freesat Satellite is the only option. Even those that can get reliable Freeview (UK Terrestrial TV) for most to do it properly it's a question of spend MORE money than a Dish install, with one of the few installers that use the proper kind of aerial (merely highest gain is asking for trouble), combining filters, professional mast amps and decently screened cable.

There is no conspiracy or stupidity. There is absolutely NO reason why anything should be changed to avoid interference to Irish Channels in N.I. or Wales or UK Channels in Ireland. Where Irish Channels in Ireland or UK channels in UK suffer from cross border interference they DO change channels.

Due to the Digital Dividend there is about 90MHz less spectrum, yet more channels are in use in UK, and there are more allocated here than are yet used.

Disclaimer:
I did once work for BBC as an Engineer, but have never worked for RTE.

whitebriar

watty wrote: »

"Ronnie Raygun"?

You had FAR too much Spirits at Christmas if you think that. It's simple. Mt Leinster and Kippure are too far away to interfere with UK viewers of UK Channels, generally. If Irish viewers want UK Terrestrial they have to be getting a good signal from N.I. or Wales or I.O.M. AND A PROFESSIONALLY designed and installed system.

Actually Leinster did wipe out preseli in parts of Wales when it was on ch 45,ask clllr Bob Kiminster,there's a thread here somewhere.

For most people there is no choice, FTA / Freesat Satellite is the only option. Even those that can get reliable Freeview (UK Terrestrial TV) for most to do it properly it's a question of spend MORE money than a Dish install, with one of the few installers that use the proper kind of aerial (merely highest gain is asking for trouble), combining filters, professional mast amps and decently screened cable.

There is no conspiracy or stupidity. There is absolutely NO reason why anything should be changed to avoid interference to Irish Channels in N.I. or Wales or UK Channels in Ireland. Where Irish Channels in Ireland or UK channels in UK suffer from cross border interference they DO change channels.

Due to the Digital Dividend there is about 90MHz less spectrum, yet more channels are in use in UK, and there are more allocated here than are yet used.

Disclaimer:
I did once work for BBC as an Engineer, but have never worked for RTE.

I can't share your certainty that RTENL were unaware that mt leinster on 23 would wipe Divis south of Dundalk.
They simply don't care in this case period.There are other options if they wanted,nulling Leinster to the North would be one of them.
The small number of Rte viewers affected on the edges of
leinsters most northerly service area could use,Cairn,Kippure,three rock or carlingford.
There's plenty overlap.

Even you'd have to agree that,having saorview and UK freeview on the one epg for those that can reasonably get it is a lovely clean system.

As for a professional install,yes that's good advice but it needn't cost a lot of money for areas where reception is reasonably available to those that want it.
Away from the south and southwest these days,that's a big catchment area.

FREETV

whitebriar wrote: »

Actually Leinster did wipe out preseli in parts of Wales when it was on ch 45,ask clllr Bob Kiminster,there's a thread here somewhere.


I can't share your certainty that RTENL were unaware that mt leinster on 23 would wipe Divis south of Dundalk.
They simply don't care in this case period.There are other options if they wanted,nulling Leinster to the North would be one of them.
The small number of Rte viewers affected on the edges of
leinsters most northerly service area could use,Cairn,Kippure,three rock or carlingford.
There's plenty overlap.

Even you'd have to agree that,having saorview and UK freeview on the one epg for those that can reasonably get it is a lovely clean system.

As for a professional install,yes that's good advice but it needn't cost a lot of money for areas where reception is reasonably available to those that want it.
Away from the south and southwest these days,that's a big catchment area.

Well let's make them care by making a fuss, maybe ring and complain, start a signed petition on Boards for example. Nulling the signal towards the North would be easy for them. I am sure that plenty of people in Louth and Meath want to receive CH.23 from Divis. Both signals from Mount Leinster and Divis on CH.23 seem to be cancelling one another out. It is a farce by RTENL.

whitebriar

FREETV wrote: »

Well let's make them care by making a fuss, maybe ring and complain, start a signed petition on Boards for example. Nulling the signal towards the North would be easy for them. I am sure that plenty of people in Louth and Meath want to receive CH.23 from Divis. Both signals from Mount Leinster and Divis on CH.23 seem to be cancelling one another out. It is a farce by RTENL.

Outing Rtenl shill's aside,I'm not affected by this latest debacle.
But my advice stands,the only way out is political.
Rtenl do a good job within their remit but have a jobsworth approach to neat frequency planning. They're primarily only interested in getting rte to your house.
Mention uktv and you'll be told combibox.

The only reason why the southeast eventually escaped that tunnel vision approach by rtenl was when they had to move off ch 45 on discovering too many with group a aerials actually were prone to preseli interference at times when preseli rocketed in during regular sea path water vapour lift conditions on their weak out of group set ups.
Preseli is some boy as we say here in the south east.
Obviously interference complaints in wales also played a part.

You'll have some job persuading politico's(too many other things on their minds) that it's important to get rtenl to null signal,solving the loss of new divis channels south of the border even though they should do it.
It shouldn't be too difficult for kildare users to pick up either cairn,kippure 3rock or carlingford.

FREETV

whitebriar wrote: »

Outing Rtenl shill's aside,I'm not affected by this latest debacle.
But my advice stands,the only way out is political.
Rtenl do a good job within their remit but have a jobsworth approach to neat frequency planning. They're primarily only interested in getting rte to your house.

You'll have some job persuading politico's(too many other things on their minds) that it's important to get rtenl to null signal,solving the loss of new divis channels south of the border even though they should do it.
It shouldn't be too difficult for kildare users to pick up either cairn,kippure 3rock or carlingford.

I don't think that it is too much to ask of RTENL to use a bit of common sense, yes well done for bringing us Saorview but that doesn't mean that you should take away FTA terrestrial tv that was and should still be available to my Dad and other people in Louth and Meath because of your badly thought out planning of frequencies and engineering. :rolleyes: :mad:
Politicians are scum in my opinion.

marno21

RTENL are not going to null services from Mount Leinster, thereby depriving citizens of their own Public Service Broadcast, in order to indulge a few users trying to receive services from another country. The commercial multiplexes are being broadcast on the basis that they have less coverage than that of the PSB services, and the attitude from the commercial broadcasters is that if you can't get it, tough. There is about 10/15% of the UK itself which cannot receive the COM multiplexes so they're hardly bothered about those in the Republic.

No matter what you do you're going to make things hard for someone. Moving Mt Leinster to another group A frequencies could cause interference to the PSB services, or another transmitter. Moving Group would require all Mt L users to change aerial. Channel 23 and 26 have been used at Mt Leinster since UHF started, and it's no surprise they're still being used after DSO. If you really want to receive one of the commecial chanens so badly, get Sky/MMDS, and count yourself lucky that you have any sort of overspill. It's not like you're the only people being deprived of channels, down this part of the country we have no Freeview whatsoever.

Also, to whoever posted about receiving Carlingford in Kildare, all that drink you had yesterday is still affecting you

Ronnie Raygun

whitebriar wrote: »

Outing Rtenl shill's aside ...

You mean me? I don't want to get into some kind of daft back-and-forth (it should be obvious to anyone knowledgeable that I have no professional connection whatsoever with broadcasting, see watty's post above), but feel free to explain ...

FREETV wrote: »

... that doesn't mean that you should take away FTA terrestrial tv that was and should still be available to my Dad and other people in Louth and Meath

Available for all of 2 weeks or so? It's just a pity they didn't switch Mt. L. to ch.23 before DSO completed in NI.

watty

whitebriar wrote: »

Actually Leinster did wipe out preseli in parts of Wales when it was on ch 45,ask clllr Bob Kiminster,there's a thread here somewhere.

Which is why they moved it. Actually it was some of the COM mux. They did not move it for convenience of people in Wales wanting RTE or Vice Versa.

No-one in Ireland has any "right" to UK TV reception, never should anything be done at the expense of our own services. The fact is that a few people happened to be able to get Terrestrial. Now ALL of Ireland can get all the main UK channels free on Satellite.

Any politician that considers getting involved in this would be an idiot doing the majority a disservice. Anyone with a viable NI, Welsh or IOM DTT/freeview signal in Ireland can get a professional to survey and install, if the signal isn't viable you use Satellite.

Some people are just (a) Greedy and (b) Expect rubbish installs with aerials too high a gain or just too poor design (rubbish Back to Front ratio and nasty side lobes). Four or Eight smaller quality aerials will work better than one big one to avoid pick up other than where the aerial is pointed. If a 2nd aerial is needed for Saorview local services it needs filtered.

If you are so close to Kippure or Mt Leinster that those are your Saorview, then you get a Dish for UK, not NI or Wales DTT.

Skull Murphy

whitebriar wrote: »

But my advice stands,the only way out is political.
Rtenl do a good job within their remit but have a jobsworth approach to neat frequency planning. They're primarily only interested in getting rte to your house....

You'll have some job persuading politico's(too many other things on their minds) that it's important to get rtenl to null signal,solving the loss of new divis channels south of the border even though they should do it.

People here can see where you're coming from with the political angle, but you're wide of the mark. It's been mentioned several times already that the UK com. muxes wouldn't even enjoy such protection within their own territory.

FREETV

As I can get CH.23 here but my Dad cannot in Trim and wanted me to get Quest back for him through his aerial then what advice could you give me please Watty as an ex BBC Engineer to try and get him back his favourite channel from Divis. I think that his old masthead amp and combiner are probably unshielded but there was no signal quality at all on CH.23 when I checked his Freeview HD box yesterday. He has a large Group A Yagi, probably a Hirschmann from '86 , longest aerial that I have ever seen. It must be eleven feet long. He is probably receiving Mount Leinster through the side lobes of the aerial. Both transmitters are non existent, they seem to be knocking one another out. I am sure that Mount Leinster will be interfering with Divis up North too a lot in the summer during high pressure so something will probably have to be done by RTENL regardless.

Skull Murphy

BBC paper detailing attempts to combat difficult reception conditions (including CCI) here: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1987-14.pdf

FREETV

Skull Murphy wrote: »

BBC paper detailing attempts to combat difficult reception conditions (including CCI) here: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1987-14.pdf

Thanks Skull Murphy.

Skull Murphy

There have been international bodies researching & offering recommendations on these interference issues, since the earliest days of radio.

There is also readily available, a lot of independent BBC material on interference issues, from within & without their own network & also the potential of their own transmitters to cause interference elsewhere.

I believe it would be doing a disservice to RTE's engineers to believe they think or behave any differently.

whitebriar

Skull Murphy wrote: »

People here can see where you're coming from with the political angle, but you're wide of the mark. It's been mentioned several times already that the UK com. muxes wouldn't even enjoy such protection within their own territory.

I'm only making suggestions,mt leinster doesn't need to cover kildare digitally,so they could null it to the north,if there was a policy of seamless tv reception.
No one need have got hurt,if a little more thought went into this.

The only reason,I mentioned politicians,is they got involved in the southeast/wales issues sucessfully.
I did point out,that what's going on in louth and meath is not affecting rte reception so politicos are not likely to be interested.So,not wide of any mark.

That bbc paper deals with analogue reception issues,digital reception is completely different,in terms of how intolerent it is of any invasion of confusing data on the same feed.
Its not the same as making a shadow or a co channel line less noticebable as it is with analogue,it's a case of eliminating any corrupting visiting data to a decoder.
That as we discovered in the south east is nigh on impossible.