The Wire vs. The Sopranos

Lukker-

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Season 5 is just as good as the rest. The reason people didn't like it was because of its focus on the media which to some was boring but it was actually very insightful.

It was a bit far-fetched compared to the rest of the seasons.

I don't think it's David Simon's fault though, he was promised 13 episodes for the final season but HBO cut it to ten.

Everything felt a bit rushed. It was still tied up nicely, but it's the weakest of them all IMO.

Season 4 was my favorite the first time around, but Season 2 might be for my second viewing. Everything just makes more sense the second time around. The first time you watch it you are wondering why the big change but after seeing it again you see it's the foundation for the the rest of the story.

The Black Oil

I'm waiting for the postman to deliver the Oz boxset. Interested to see what one of HBO's earliest shows is like.

Re The Wire, two words for season 2 - Frank Sabotka. Season 5's journalism focus didn't bother me, McNulty's antics on the other hand...

K4t

The Black Oil wrote: »

Re The Wire, two words for season 2 - Frank Sabotka. Season 5's journalism focus didn't bother me, McNulty's antics on the other hand...

They kind of sacrificed McNulty's character to show just how f**ked up and corrupt the city was, and how the media who were supposed to be investigating and exposing such practices were implicit in it. Season 5 attempted to be more entertaining and go out with a bang, but what it really showed is that corruption and greed won in the end. McNulty/Freamon/Daniels...Pearlman/Colvin, they tried to make the city a better place, they tried to do good, and they were thwarted throughout each season and ultimately defeated. They couldn't stop the cycle, and in the end they had to be content with the fact that at least they had tried and they would go on to live, peaceful, quiet lives with their loved ones, while nothing really changed. The real villains of The Wire weren't Avon or Stringer or Marlo or Prop Joe, they were Carcetti, Royce, Nerece, Steinhorff, Krawczyk...Burell. I feel season 5 accomplished its goal in portraying that.

edit: How could I forget Clay Davis..sheeeiiiit

BUNK1982

The Black Oil wrote: »

I'm waiting for the postman to deliver the Oz boxset. Interested to see what one of HBO's earliest shows is like.

Re The Wire, two words for season 2 - Frank Sabotka. Season 5's journalism focus didn't bother me, McNulty's antics on the other hand...

I thought McNulty's antics were a bit of a stretch but then again is it any different to them juking the stats or hamsterdam in earlier episodes? And it even mirrors what the media do in cheerleading rather than getting to the truth??

Real police like McNulty, Freamon and Daniels are edged out much like real newspaper people like Gus in favour of someone that conforms to a sysytem that demands we do more with less resources.

BUNK1982

I'm a massive Soprano's fan too, just to be clear.

It just seems a tad more polished and luxurious than The Wire which is probably why the latter would edge it for me.

That said there is a lot of depth and meaning in the Sopranos too, you just have to look a bit harder for it. Probably one of the reasons why it had a broader commercial appeal?

The end of Season 2 of the Sopranos with the Rolling Stones song - unreal!

kryogen

Having re watched both shows a few times now I have to say The Wire just gets better and better each viewing, it was just an incredible show, season 4 is still my favourite, I have always thought season 2 was excellent, even first time around and Frank Sobotka has been a hero of mine since. Great performance. Season 5 is still the weak link for me but its more because I don't care that much about the media perspective I think. As a show its still there, certain ludicrous storylines of course, well, one anyway but you get over that and it has one of the funniest opening scenes ever to a show.

I love seeing the development of Michaels character in it. Bill Rawles is one of my favourite characters of all time, the man is the ultimate troll!

What sets it apart from The Sopranos for me is that The Sopranos is very much a POV show, with Tony the main protagonist. The Wire is far more of an ensemble piece which allows it to have so many more layers and character development.

Both have a spot in my top shows, along with The West Wing, Oz and The Shield (which I didn't think I was going to like after a couple of episodes, but it just grew in quality as we went along)

Because of the characters, McNulty, Bunk, Omar, Stringer, Bubbles, Lester, Rawles, Sobotka, Prop joe, Carver, Colvin and so many more The Wire wins for me.

golfball37

Great thread. I would say picking between these is like choosing between your children in terms who is your favourite but the Wire just edges it for me as it spoke more to me from a societal point of view & I was gripped by the whole scale of the story. The Sopranos was slicker, cooler and funnier for the most part but the Wire was more realistic and gripping & had some funny moments too just to tie you over.
I agree with those who say season 5 was not as good as the others, the reporters story never grabbed me in the way the school or the docks did and the serial killer saga damaged its overall USP which was its realism. On the flip side however the Marlo/Prop Joe/Omar thread in season 5 was as good as anything in the previous seasons.
The Sopranos was at its best when it was the boys chewing the fat, discussing business or generally being up to no good. A lot of the family storyline and the Melfi stuff were forgettable. It had some poor episodes thrown in too such as the dream sequence episode.
The wire was brilliant at blurring the lines between good and bad, Bubbles for example is everything society would abhor, a junkie a thief and a layabout. He had more redeeming features in him though than most of the Police officers in the show, same with Prop Joe.
Both shows are 10 out of 10 but when push comes to shove the Wire will never be topped imo.

The Black Oil

BUNK1982 wrote: »

I thought McNulty's antics were a bit of a stretch but then again is it any different to them juking the stats or hamsterdam in earlier episodes? And it even mirrors what the media do in cheerleading rather than getting to the truth??

A stretch for storytelling, or realism? The juking the stats - we've had the penalty points mess, amongst other things. Hamsterdam is probably a harder sell, though it's really a vehicle for Simon and co. to make a point. If you compare it with McNulty in 5, it's two men turning to desperate measures. As for the journalist in 5, I did like how dislikable he was owing to his self-serving antics.

I dunno. I'm just a viewer, I suppose.

daUbiq

TeddyTedson wrote: »

This is going to be locked or moved just to let you know, im a veteran round these parts so i knows;)
Haven't watched either though

You were saying?

Penn

The biggest difference between both shows for me was in The Sopranos, I didn't really like any of the characters. Some of them had their moments, but overall, none of them were really that likable. Which meant I didn't really care if anything happened to them. Whereas with The Wire, I liked almost every character. Regardless of who they were, what they did, good or bad... nearly every character was likable in some way.

BUNK1982

The Black Oil wrote: »

A stretch for storytelling, or realism? The juking the stats - we've had the penalty points mess, amongst other things. Hamsterdam is probably a harder sell, though it's really a vehicle for Simon and co. to make a point. If you compare it with McNulty in 5, it's two men turning to desperate measures. As for the journalist in 5, I did like how dislikable he was owing to his self-serving antics.

I dunno. I'm just a viewer, I suppose.

No you have a point - but most things in the show are there as a vehicle to make a point.

Juking stats seems might seem to be the most realistic behaviour to us but if you go down that road and it becomes culturally accepted in an organisation then where do you stop?

The police came under pressure from politicians to present better stats with less resources just like the paper came under pressure from shareholders to boost revenue and cut costs. That's what makes men like McNulty and the journalist resort to desperate measures.

BUNK1982

Penn wrote: »

The biggest difference between both shows for me was in The Sopranos, I didn't really like any of the characters. Some of them had their moments, but overall, none of them were really that likable. Which meant I didn't really care if anything happened to them. Whereas with The Wire, I liked almost every character. Regardless of who they were, what they did, good or bad... nearly every character was likable in some way.

I dunno - I wouldn't fancy having lunch with the Greek!

On the Sopranos though - any character that shows a weakness is immediately devoured by the wiseguys like Arty Bucco or Tony's high school friend in Season 2.

I watched an interview with Michael Imperioli who plays Christopher and one of the things he noticed is that the likes of Pauly, Silivio etc. who aren't at the top have to work really hard to make living. you see them with all the fancy clothes, flash cars and spoiled kids but they have to work 24/7 to keep that going.

Ping Chow Chi

the wire

Right Turn Clyde

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Season 5 is just as good as the rest. The reason people didn't like it was because of its focus on the media which to some was boring but it was actually very insightful.

McNulty's antics felt too contrived, especially when compared to the rest of the series. That's why I don't like it. I read it as a criticism of how the media lap up artificial narratives, but as a metaphor it was laid on too thick. It wasn't boring. It was just poorly written.

deisedude

Love both shows but for the terrible Livia CGI after the real actresses death in the Sopranos was among the most cringeworthy tv i have ever seen. The Wire and Breaking Bad both pip Sopranos for me

Right Turn Clyde

deisedude wrote: »

Love both shows but for the terrible Livia CGI after the real actresses death in the Sopranos was among the most cringeworthy tv i have ever seen.

What was the alternative?

deisedude

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

What was the alternative?

Well seeing as Tony got a phonecall anyway to say she died i cant see why they didnt just do that and not bother with that scene

Right Turn Clyde

deisedude wrote: »

Well seeing as Tony got a phonecall anyway to say she died i cant see why they didnt just do that and not bother with that scene

That's a fair point, and well argued.

Cartel Mike

Watched them both over Christmas the wire first then Sopranos.

As outright entertainment the wire doesn't really go in for that , its happy to compromise entertainment for gritty realism, there are no sound effects for eg, a distinct lack of music & often a lack of suspense & comedy.

The sopranos does do outright entertainment, the music for eg is awesome ( eg John cooper Clarke's ' Evidently chickentown') . There is more in the way of suspense, there are dream sequences, comedic charaters like uncle junior & Paulie. It goes anywhere & everywhere. Its happy to comprise gritty realism for outright entertainment.

The wire cares about the cops, how it portrays them , their frustrations , humantity ,corruption. politics, whether their job/sacfrafice is actually worth it etc etc .
The sopranos doesn't really have cops, when they do their just a hindrance to a good ganster show. A few wise guys standing around wondering if there are going to be a few indictments comming there way, whereas in the wire there would have been five episodes dedicated to the process of just how those indictments were achieved, who lost their job over them , who signed them ,who died over them & who blackmailed who to get them.

The wire doesn't have a main character .It examines a predominantly black american city especially the cops , the mayors who want them to fiddle the crime figures, the drug dealers etc . The Sopranos examines only the Sopano family, the physiology of being a crime boss, the wife to a boss & the effects on the children. Both compelling.

For me the Wire only really gets going in Season three. Hamsterdam is genius . When bubbles walks through it at night for the first time it really hits you the huge scope of the show, the amount of hours of work , planning, filming & dedication of the creator & crew to film something like that may never be seen again.Fav character was the bunk, I genuinely disliked Aiden gillens politan character I don't think it was his strongest acting role. 2nd fav character was clay davis ..shiiiiiit.

When I started watching the Sopranos (straight after) the biggest observation was that the acting was that much better. Obviously I could also relax a bit & not have to rewind scenes to pick up on important plot lines like I had with the wire. Ganfoldini is a acting force of nature in this. Also despite being made 3 years earlier its not visually dated ( the Wire sometimes had that dated hill street blues/cagney & lacey feel to it).
It hops along at an enjoyable pace & although the wire had a few brilliantly funny scenes ,the Sopranos had frequent actual belly laughs eg Tony in a stable coma in the hospital , but when Paulie visits & starts talking about his sore balls ,tony's vital signs decrease & needs to get his heart jump started. There are so many rewatchable sceens in this show.

If im honest I dont want to watch the wire again for at least 10 years. Its brilliant but it heavy. Considering how trigger happy network producers are now would it air for five seasons in today's ratings environment ? If you look at a show like Boss (influenced by the wire) & how it got axed so soon the answer might be no unfortunately. The Sopranos I could probably start rewatching tomorrow , when it first came out it changed tv's landscape,still feel the same way about it now, for out & out entertainment for me pound for pound it's probably still unsurpassed.