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Here we go again...

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    #62
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    These are such convenient reasons why people don't talk about religion in
    a professional context they seem a little too good to be true.
    Simply put
    the reason people do not discuss religion in a professional context is not
    because they are "divisive" topics it's because religion has nothing to do
    with the majority of professional business.
    http://justjobs.com/blog/five-things-you-should-not-discuss-at-work/
    http://www.iboai.com/Resources-BestPractices-PoliteBusiness.asp
    http://www.pfadvice.com/2009/11/13/five-topics-you-should-never-discuss-with-clients/
    http://www.zimbio.com/Relationships/articles/c1ZWql-Shiu/12+Things+Never+Talk+Date
    "Never talk about religion or politics" is sound advice for the workplace (and dating) which many people follow. That you've never heard of this doesn't surprise me.
    The main point I'm making is that you all know well that the state isn't
    favouring one religion over another because a guy has a cross in his
    windscreen, & if you think they are you can easily find out without trying
    to censor this person from doing what they want. Also, considering
    the claim of rationality that's thrown around I find it highly irrational
    to ignore something so obvious & to prefer censoring everything you
    can     instead of letting people feel comfortable bringing a bible or cross
    to work in what is generally viewed as a free society.
    Read the half dozen posts before yours which manage to express damn near the exact same sentiment without a huge rant about tyres, radio stations and cigarettes.


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    #63
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    These are such convenient reasons why people don't talk about religion in
    a professional context they seem a little too good to be true. Simply put
    the reason people do not discuss religion in a professional context is not
    because they are "divisive" topics it's because religion has nothing to do
    with the majority of professional business. Religion is not talked about in
    most contexts for the same reason the storm that creates the eye of
    Jupiter or yaks milk are not talked about - it's just got no relevance to
    the work being done (in most scenario's).

    Just to add to another poster's point. I have worked in numerous bars and have always been taught to engage the punters but to try and avoid politics and definitely avoid religion.


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    #64
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    mikhail wrote: »
    http://justjobs.com/blog/five-things-you-should-not-discuss-at-work/
    http://www.iboai.com/Resources-BestPractices-PoliteBusiness.asp
    http://www.pfadvice.com/2009/11/13/five-topics-you-should-never-discuss-with-clients/
    http://www.zimbio.com/Relationships/articles/c1ZWql-Shiu/12+Things+Never+Talk+Date
    "Never talk about religion or politics" is sound advice for the workplace (and dating) which many people follow.

    Note the change from, "When everyone avoids mentioning..." to
    "which many people follow" which was the reason for me quoting you
    as It's misleading to imply this reason, reason X, is solely responsible for
    people not discussing religion in the workplace. I just wanted to make
    that distinction clear, because if the sole reason for avoiding mentioning
    these topics was to avoid conflict it would be mandatory in the way
    racism or sexism is treated. The fact that it's not a universal is because
    it's just like nearly everything else, some people might mention it, the
    majority don't. Some workplaces have this as a rule in their contract,
    others don't. Some people make a point of not mentioning it for reason
    X, others might mention it in passing, there's just no hard-and-fast rule
    as regards this topic. Also if your argument was true then it would be
    socially acceptable to view all religion as divisive, which we both know
    is generally not the case outside of atheist circles (and something you
    obviously now concede after the shift from everybody to many).

    Still, none of this acknowledges the fact that many people do talk about
    their religion & there's no reason to think they don't, just as they talk
    about politics & everything else they talk about. You are living in a
    fantasy world if you think otherwise    . As for on dates, well I don't
    know how topics such as these can be ignored but that's just me :D

    Also, I don't know how this is evidence of your argument. Giving me links
    to tips on what you "should" do to avoid conflict is great, thanks for
    telling me something I didn't already know (:pac:) but still this is just that,
    tips. It begets much wonder why there are specifically religious
    businesses as well    , one would think that these wouldn't exist because
    of the potential for causing conflict & transgressing the points in your list
    of tips.
    mikhail wrote: »
    That you've never heard of this doesn't surprise me.

    No, I hadn't. Thinking of the many faux pas I could have avoided without
    this knowledge I feel rather foolish... I think it's clear that if I'm arguing
    that these aren't the main reasons why people don't discuss religion in
    work it's fair to think I knew about the thing I was arguing against, I
    didn't ban the shadow of the thing I disagree with I just thought about it...
    mikhail wrote: »
    Read the half dozen posts before yours which manage to express damn near the exact same sentiment without a huge rant about tyres, radio stations and cigarettes.


    I don't think anybody said what I said because nobody challenged the
    ridiculous comments about the guys cross being interpreted as some
    kind of state-sponsored favouritism as a justification for banning
    anything with a shadow so sometimes a bit of Chekov & the michelin
    man are necessary to highlight pure, uncut hypocrisy.

    I just don't think it's that difficult for people who espouse reason &
    rationality to actually use these faculties instead of trying to ban the
    shadow of something they ideologically disagree with by working through
    the difficult chain of thought, which takes less than a second, to realize
    that state-sponsored companies do not support religion X over religion
    Y & that someones cross/bible/anarchist-cookbook in their van is not
    the state mandating this it's the personal choice of a human being
    who'd prefer to feel comfortable in his/her workplace as opposed to
    some kind of automaton. Occam's razor wasn't made just to bash the
    religious ffs...

    So lets see, now that no justification for banishing the shadow of the
    guys cross from the dashboard of the van actually stands to criticism
    will we see a sudden turn in support for the guy, or will some new
    justification magically appear?


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    #65
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    mikhail wrote: »
    http://justjobs.com/blog/five-things-you-should-not-discuss-at-work/
    http://www.iboai.com/Resources-BestPractices-PoliteBusiness.asp
    http://www.pfadvice.com/2009/11/13/five-topics-you-should-never-discuss-with-clients/
    http://www.zimbio.com/Relationships/articles/c1ZWql-Shiu/12+Things+Never+Talk+Date
    "Never talk about religion or politics" is sound advice for the workplace (and dating) which many people follow. That you've never heard of this doesn't surprise me.
    ShooterSF wrote: »
    Just to add to another poster's point. I have worked in numerous bars and have always been taught to engage the punters but to try and avoid politics and definitely avoid religion.

    It seems to be one of those 'golden rules' in most areas of employment that involves dealing with the public. Don't talk about religion or politics. The possibility of some lu-la flaring up on you is far too great. The company in question are simply extending this logic to the display of symbols.
    For every person like Jakkas who might see a Bible or some such as a nice conversation piece there is no doubt more than one raging psychopath ready to furiously mouth off about it.


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    #66
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Jakkass wrote: »
    ^^ TBH with you I wouldn't see a problem with someone putting a small religious symbol in their dash irrespective of what faith that is.

    You have already mentioned things that would offend you.

    So that is rather irrelevant. Religious symbols wouldn't offend you, but there are things that would offend you which you don't think this guy could put on his van.

    On what grounds does this public company say "take those down" but allows someone else to stick up a religious symbol?


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