Applied Maths

AlanBr

Hi everyone i was just wondering how everyones doing in applied maths. Im in 5th year and recently took up this subject and while i do enjoy it I don't find it that easy tbh. Im doing it in school and outside school with 2 very good teachers.I am an A maths student so it shouldn't prove to difficult after a little getting used to
Is it an easy A1 though? If so how much work is required?
Also how many and what questions should i do?
Thanks guys

Maybe_Memories

I took up Applied Maths around christmas in 5th year. I did it by myself outside school as it wasn't taught there. Once a month I got a grind (which wasn't very often compared to people who have a class 5 days a week).

I got an A1 in the Leaving, 99% to be specific. Lost the 1% because the corrector didn't like my definition of Archemedes' Principal, despite it being right. :rolleyes:

At the start, it took a lot of getting used to. I found the exam papers very difficult. It's really a shock to your system, you really have to learn to think for yourself, a great asset to have. You can get all the past papers from 2010 to 1984 from Oliver Murphy, the guy who writes Fundamental Applied Maths.
However, the guy on thephysicsteacher.ie has the questions from 2010 back to 1970, at least he does for the differential equation question. He probably has the others, and it's free unlike Murphy.

Mechanics (which is what LC applied maths really is) eventually became second nature to me. I got to a stage where I could do any question from 1970 to 2009 in my sleep.

I personally think it's the easiest subject there is (although countless people will disagree with that statement..)

PM me for more info

EDIT: As for the questions to do, well on the paper there are 10 questions and you answer 6. It's up to you which ones to do. The ones you find easiest. My favourites were Differential Equations and Hydrostatics. And let me tell you, at the start Hydrostatics was next to impossible for me. I just kept working at it and was determined to beat it. Hell, in third year I was failing all my maths tests.

AlanBr

Oh ok fair play good result i was thinking when i begin leaving cert next year should i like start studying and putting in extra work straight away?
What timetable did you use for studying?
Thanks again

Maybe_Memories

Do you mean for Applied Maths or in general with all my subjects?

Putting in some extra work would be a good idea. You don't need to kill yourself, just do a bit. The biggest thing is to do all of your homework properly, including all reading and learning homework. If you do just that, I guarantee you'll do extremely well in the LC

magicianz

Just to say, theres a teacher from cork, Dominick Donnelly, who has published a new book for applied maths that is so much simpler than Oliver murphys and explains everything step by step =] it wont replace a teacher but a grind every so often will keep you on the straight and narrow =]

iLikePiano99

I am going into 5th year and I am thinking of taking up applied maths (outside of school since my school doesn't teach it) Do you think I would need a teacher to teach me or would the Oliver Murphy book and various internet sources be enough? If so, could anyone recommend some teachers in the Dublin area? Thanks..

AlanBr

iLikePiano99 wrote: »

I am going into 5th year and I am thinking of taking up applied maths (outside of school since my school doesn't teach it) Do you think I would need a teacher to teach me or would the Oliver Murphy book and various internet sources be enough? If so, could anyone recommend some teachers in the Dublin area? Thanks..

Yes definitely take it up at the beginning of 5th year...as for a teacher it all really depends how good at maths you are however i would strongly recommend you do get a grind in it....i live in galway but i heard this institute place in dublin is excellent..

iLikePiano99

AlanBr wrote: »

Yes definitely take it up at the beginning of 5th year...as for a teacher it all really depends how good at maths you are however i would strongly recommend you do get a grind in it....i live in galway but i heard this institute place in dublin is excellent..

Thanks for the reply. Yeah the guy who writes the Applied Maths book, Oliver Murphy teaches in the Institute so I might consider getting grinds there.

Noo

Its very easy to get an A in, I got an A2 in the LC...i was so surprised I genuinely thought i did rubbish in the exam and would get about a C Then i thought about it and realised how easy it actually is to get an A...

Theres 10 topics, they all come up every year in the same order, you might not know how theyll ask the question but you can guarantee it'll be on the paper. You only answer 6, most people already know which 6 they'll answer before they go into the exam (I wouldnt recommended setting your heart on your favourite 6, best to have a few more prepared) Anyways...you spend 2 years doing the same topics over and over and over and know every single method for every single type of question. So when the exam comes and you havent a clue what they are asking you try the methods you know for that question and you'll get a load of marks for the method and the attempt. Because the course is so small there really is only so many ways to do a question so just try what you know and by the time the LC comes round it'll be enough to get you nearly full marks on the questions. And if questions come up that have been asked before then you're cruising...we did past papers continuously for 2 years, back to papers from the 80s and all, i think our whole class got As (all 8 of us haha).

Definitely helps if your teacher knows applied maths inside out too.

iLikePiano99

Noo wrote: »

Its very easy to get an A in, I got an A2 in the LC...i was so surprised I genuinely thought i did rubbish in the exam and would get about a C Then i thought about it and realised how easy it actually is to get an A...

Theres 10 topics, they all come up every year in the same order, you might not know how theyll ask the question but you can guarantee it'll be on the paper. You only answer 6, most people already know which 6 they'll answer before they go into the exam (I wouldnt recommended setting your heart on your favourite 6, best to have a few more prepared) Anyways...you spend 2 years doing the same topics over and over and over and know every single method for every single type of question. So when the exam comes and you havent a clue what they are asking you try the methods you know for that question and you'll get a load of marks for the method and the attempt. Because the course is so small there really is only so many ways to do a question so just try what you know and by the time the LC comes round it'll be enough to get you nearly full marks on the questions. And if questions come up that have been asked before then you're cruising...we did past papers continuously for 2 years, back to papers from the 80s and all, i think our whole class got As (all 8 of us haha).

Definitely helps if your teacher knows applied maths inside out too.

Wow thanks...that really helped. Sounds like I will need a good teacher to get an A though...do you know of any good teachers? Or would the Institute be my best bet. I've heard that the Institute is the best school for applied Maths? It sucks that my school doesn't teach it !

Maybe_Memories

magicianz wrote: »

Just to say, theres a teacher from cork, Dominick Donnelly, who has published a new book for applied maths that is so much simpler than Oliver murphys and explains everything step by step =] it wont replace a teacher but a grind every so often will keep you on the straight and narrow =]

The reason Murphy's book was so good was because it didn't explain everything step by step. It was a case of "right, here's the basics you need to know. Now go figure the rest out for yourself."

Spoon feeding will not work in Applied Maths.

I spent weeks trying to solve some of the problems in Murphy's book and the exam papers, and despite being in first year Maths in Trinity, there are still two LC problems I'm unable to solve.

If you spoon feed you take away the ability to think (like what's happened in most LC subjects) and if you get a really difficult question on the exam (2009 was pretty difficult for the standard student, whereas 2010 was a piece of píss) you wont be able to solve it.

spurious

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

The reason Murphy's book was so good was because it didn't explain everything step by step. It was a case of "right, here's the basics you need to know. Now go figure the rest out for yourself."

Old style teaching - the horror.:eek:

OP you could probably do it yourself, but even a short (or occasional) course of meetings with a teacher close to the exam would sort out any problems you have.
Good luck.

Noo

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

The reason Murphy's book was so good was because it didn't explain everything step by step. It was a case of "right, here's the basics you need to know. Now go figure the rest out for yourself."

Spoon feeding will not work in Applied Maths.

I spent weeks trying to solve some of the problems in Murphy's book and the exam papers, and despite being in first year Maths in Trinity, there are still two LC problems I'm unable to solve.

If you spoon feed you take away the ability to think (like what's happened in most LC subjects) and if you get a really difficult question on the exam (2009 was pretty difficult for the standard student, whereas 2010 was a piece of píss) you wont be able to solve it.

I agree. We had an excellent teacher who hammered into us everything we needed to know, if we asked her a question she would ask it back to us and if we said we dont know and she knew we should know it then she would avoid telling us directly. We only used the book for problems for homework. It was the most laid back class, by 6th year all we did was papers, she'd have them all laid out and you pick up one you havent done and work on it and if you have a question ask her. We helped each other and explaining stuff to others make you remember and understand it better yourself. At end of 6th the teacher was bored because we came in did our papers, knew it all really at this stage, so she sat at the top of the class watching us work away. The change between the start of 5th when we knew nothing and were pretty terrified to just before the LC was incredible we were so prepared. Our teacher was in our school and she was fantastic.

magicianz

It doesnt spoon feed, it shows you the basics of all the questions and there are questions then that arent fully covered by the examples, the unique ones from LC and above LC levels.

They teach you the basics and then there are harder questions to do, it is miles better than Murphy's book that I had to use for 2 years in my opinion. Its impossible to explain every possibility in LC step by step, just give people the basics and give them examples of the unique questions that come up just incase they are repeated.

Im using the book and im getting A1's most of the time in class tests, exam papers and the pre and im not the brightest spark overall. You still have to use your own mind to figure it out. It isnt just spoon feeding, dont just assume it is. Assumptions cause problems in everything, especially applied maths.

Maybe_Memories

You originally said that it's "so much simpler than Oliver murphys and explains everything step by step".

I'd be very interested to see the book. I must check it out.

Granted, in my personal opinion, Murphy's book is a university standard book. There are about 10 copies of it in the library in Trinity College, which is probably the only LC book you'll find in a college library.

For someone looking to gain a very good understanding of classical mechanics, Murphy's book is the way to go. For someone looking to pass an exam, probably not.

AlanBr

I've just gone ahead and bought the other book purely to get as much practice as possible

derekmurr

whats wrong with my teaching alan?

Closet Monkey

does anyone know if the new edition of oliver murphys book is better for exam standerds?

magicianz

Closet Monkey wrote: »

does anyone know if the new edition of oliver murphys book is better for exam standerds?

Did Oliver bring out a new edition? I used Olivers old brown book and the book by Dominick Donnelly and tbh, much prefer Dominick's book! Its the once with the very colourful front cover, looks like a primary school book its so colourful :P

Wesc.

derekmurr wrote: »

whats wrong with my teaching alan?

what?

And yes theres a newer version but it really is much the same as the brown book I find dominicks book really difficult!

masterofchess1

hey guys, I was just wondering if I should do applied maths for leaving cert. I have to choose subjects by the end of this week and I am seriously contemplating It. Is it similar to normal maths and do they overlap. I got an a in my jc mocks, but I am worried that this is not a good choice. Is it a subject that you grasp by practice rather than total maths and logic skills? any help would be appreciated.

Kremin

masterofchess1 wrote: »

hey guys, I was just wondering if I should do applied maths for leaving cert. I have to choose subjects by the end of this week and I am seriously contemplating It. Is it similar to normal maths and do they overlap. I got an a in my jc mocks, but I am worried that this is not a good choice. Is it a subject that you grasp by practice rather than total maths and logic skills? any help would be appreciated.

Currently doing it now.. in 6th year.. only picked it up in september..
Yes, there's a lot of maths, you don't need to prove theory or anything it's just basically doing 6 questions.
The questions come up every year, in the same place and a similar format to previous years, e.g projectiles is usually split into a horizontal plane for part a and for part b its an inclined plane. From what I've seen everybody on here say, practice practice practice, do the exam papers back to the 80's or as far as you can go and you've pretty much covered every possibility.

I think it has the highest A rate with over a certain number doing it (obviously languages like Russian and the others where <100 do them will have an extremely high A rate)

Honestly though, from everyone I've asked.. if you actually work and do the questions and understand them, you should be well able to get an A or a B.

From what I've done so far, there's not much overlap with normal maths. Integration/Calculus comes into question 10 but it's much more advanced in app maths, i.e differential equations.
I'm not sure about physics, I've read it helps a lot with the mechanical side.


Also don't make the mistake of only doing 6/10 questions, they can make the questions quite horrible if they want to.. seriously.

masterofchess1

thanks for the help. there is going to be 4 classes a week running starting in fifth year. I think I might pick it after all. Just one last question, do you have to be really good at maths in general or can it be picked up easily like normal maths?? would you be covered by having 4 classes a week??

Kremin

masterofchess1 wrote: »

thanks for the help. there is going to be 4 classes a week running starting in fifth year. I think I might pick it after all. Just one last question, do you have to be really good at maths in general or can it be picked up easily like normal maths?? would you be covered by having 4 classes a week??

Honestly can't answer that. I picked it up because I loved/was good at maths. I don't think you have to be REEEEALLLLY good at maths but some questions are quite complicated and some people do struggle with it. Again I'm not really much help because I just do a grind once a week, never had a class on it.

The_N4sir

masterofchess1 wrote: »

thanks for the help. there is going to be 4 classes a week running starting in fifth year. I think I might pick it after all. Just one last question, do you have to be really good at maths in general or can it be picked up easily like normal maths?? would you be covered by having 4 classes a week??

I'd have to agree with Kremin. I got a B in JC and I'm not the greatest at maths but I don't find it too bad but there are some complicated questions. However a lot of questions in the same topic always require the same method so I think it will be grand once you do a few questions

Kremin

The_N4sir wrote: »

I'd have to agree with Kremin. I got a B in JC and I'm not the greatest at maths but I don't find it too bad but there are some complicated questions. However a lot of questions in the same topic always require the same method so I think it will be grand once you do a few questions

Honestly, Linear motion and Collisions are relatively simple but some years they make them absolutely horrible because they're so simple. If you practice 7 questions very well you should be fine.