Reasons for owning a higher performance car in Ireland?

BostonB

af_thefragile wrote: »

You wouldn't wanna drive in Wicklow in a 1l Micra.......

I used to commute over the mountains in a 1L. Was great fun. But you can't be lazy with the power like you can in a faster car, you've got to judge everything exactly, and conserve energy by learning where you don't need to brake. Quite often I would be able to string a few corners together, without braking, because I knew the road, whereas other faster cars following, who didn't know the road were constantly braking. Its a different kind of driving. More like a kart, where you don't lift off.

Mind you have to have common sense, sometimes because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something. More power in car gives you more opportunities that you should resist.

Matt Simis

RoverJames wrote: »

In fainess to the Corolla the driver was probably in 3rd or 4th, in 2nd I would think there would be loads of acceleration to get by an accelerating truck. And of course overtaking stuff that is itself accelerating on a non dual carraigway is sh1te driving too.

60kph - 90kph in 2nd in a Corrola vs a truck "on boost" which is already accelerating? Its 0-100 is nearly 12sec with a "proper" driver in it and in tune, he had enough time to do it (40-110 say) in 3seconds, which a "performance" car would do no prob, I dont think a Corolla could have actually succeeded at all here.

There is no way he was in 4th anyhow, it wasnt that slow and he was really trying to get around the truck.

af_thefragile

Matt Simis wrote: »

I say a Corolla try to overtake both a car and a truck (same time) this morning at 60kph. He couldnt quite get by the truck so had to slice between the 2 vehicles as there was (at that point) oncoming traffic.

I mean literally a 1.4litre average Irish car couldnt (sufficiently, it was gaining but too slowly) outdrag an already accelerating truck. So sad. :rolleyes:

If you want to overtake, you've got to get one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMu1-U-4dQ8

BostonB

ottostreet wrote: »

Well, I've just gone back to an FTO after driving a 3 litre BMW, and I find it too slow! (no that doesn't mean im changing it Onkle!) I don't speed, but I need my car to have oomph, just for safety. Drove my girlfriends 1 litre Polo for a week or so, and it really was disgraceful how cars like that are allowed on the road. Plain dangerous.

Its only dangerous if you try to drive beyond its limits.

Well if the truck was shifting at that pace he shouldn't have attempted it really, truck should stop at 55 though and the Corolla won't. If there was a car approaching it was a looney maneuvre to attempt. I'd blame the driver not the car. I drove a 1.4 Rover 214 for two and a half years Cork to Dublin twice a week before it was all motorway and never had a hairy moment overtaking.

ShadowHearth

BostonB wrote: »

Its only dangerous if you try to drive beyond its limits.

Then I would love to know how low is the limit in these coffins on wheels?

Drove headchefs 1.5 diesel corse, 98 I think. Just 1 mile down the road to get some good from the shop. It was the scariest thing I ever drove in my life! It was wobbly, spongy, dangerous, horrible, scary, not stable. At one stage I thought I am doing 120km/h as it was sooo scary, when I looked down, it was barely 60km/h!!!! That car passed nct 2 weeks ago too!

I better drive something big and powerfull, then small coffin on wheels...

af_thefragile

Well those small old 1l cars are made to get you from A to B in no hurry. They're not made for motorway blasting at 120kmph or to be trashed down country roads...

Hence if you drive them within the speed limits, they're safe to drive.

Can't blame the car for the driver being a tit. The Merc diesel I had was ridiculously slow, 0 to 60 in 15 seconds or something looney like that, so overtaking was done on dual carraigeways or very selectively on single carraigeway roads.

My old 520i was 150ish bhp but a big tank so so acceleration was much like a decent 1.4 or 1.6 in a smaller car, I never had a problem with it, you overtake to the cars capability.

Loads of folk in high powered stuff overestimate their cars abilities too.

ottostreet

BostonB wrote: »

Its only dangerous if you try to drive beyond its limits.

That's not true, as the limits for the car are far too low. Basically, once you leave the towns and you start doing 50-60mph, it just gets too...unstable. Braking is ****e, grip is ****e, and it FORCES you to drive far slower as a result. This is in a 80k miles, brand new NCT'ed 2000 Polo. I am not a fast or aggressive driver, in any shape or form, but christ almighty, no wonder people who drive more normal cars have such an attitude towards speed, because I feel plain unsafe doing anything over about 40mph in such a low powered car!

Anan1

ottostreet wrote: »

That's not true, as the limits for the car are far too low. Basically, once you leave the towns and you start doing 50-60mph, it just gets too...unstable. Braking is ****e, grip is ****e, and it FORCES you to drive far slower as a result. This is in a 80k miles, brand new NCT'ed 2000 Polo. I am not a fast or aggressive driver, in any shape or form, but christ almighty, no wonder people who drive more normal cars have such an attitude towards speed, because I feel plain unsafe doing anything over about 40mph in such a low powered car!

I learnt to drive in a 1984 Golf 1.6D. That thing had 55bhp and a four speed manual, and I got places quicker in it than I do in my current 227bhp Forester. Once it's properly maintained, a Polo 1.0's fine - slow, but in no way inherently unsafe.

Matt Simis

ottostreet wrote: »

That's not true, as the limits for the car are far too low. Basically, once you leave the towns and you start doing 50-60mph, it just gets too...unstable. Braking is ****e, grip is ****e, and it FORCES you to drive far slower as a result. This is in a 80k miles, brand new NCT'ed 2000 Polo. I am not a fast or aggressive driver, in any shape or form, but christ almighty, no wonder people who drive more normal cars have such an attitude towards speed, because I feel plain unsafe doing anything over about 40mph in such a low powered car!

Yup, I was in an old Micra doing 110kph on a motorway. Deafening and unnerving and the drive admitted she "didnt like driving it on motorways". I can totally see why, urban commuting is great, but everything else terrible. And this car has the same speed limit as a AWD Audi V8 and we consider this normal!? :eek:

BostonB

ottostreet wrote: »

That's not true, as the limits for the car are far too low. Basically, once you leave the towns and you start doing 50-60mph, it just gets too...unstable. Braking is ****e, grip is ****e, and it FORCES you to drive far slower as a result. This is in a 80k miles, brand new NCT'ed 2000 Polo. I am not a fast or aggressive driver, in any shape or form, but christ almighty, no wonder people who drive more normal cars have such an attitude towards speed, because I feel plain unsafe doing anything over about 40mph in such a low powered car!

You're just rambling mate. You were complaining about the lack of power being unsafe, now your just complaining how you're not used to a small car.

BostonB

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yup, I was in an old Micra doing 110kph on a motorway. Deafening and unnerving and the drive admitted she "didnt like driving it on motorways". I can totally see why, urban commuting is great, but everything else terrible. And this car has the same speed limit as a AWD Audi V8 and we consider this normal!? :eek:

Just because a car can do a speed doesn't mean you should. Your meant to have common sense and back off if its too much. Its meant to be a city, urban commuter.

BostonB

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Then I would love to know how low is the limit in these coffins on wheels?

Drove headchefs 1.5 diesel corse, 98 I think. Just 1 mile down the road to get some good from the shop. It was the scariest thing I ever drove in my life! It was wobbly, spongy, dangerous, horrible, scary, not stable. At one stage I thought I am doing 120km/h as it was sooo scary, when I looked down, it was barely 60km/h!!!! That car passed nct 2 weeks ago too!

I better drive something big and powerfull, then small coffin on wheels...

I guess that's why the insurance is sky high on those small cars.

BostonB

At lot of these small car are poorly maintained, tired shocks, no brand tyres, probably low rates, tracking off, wheels not balanced, never been over 60km/h in their life. If you jump in them and drive them flat out, its not going to be pretty.

If you jump from a session Karting, into a Hot Hatch, the hot hatch feels like soggy noodles, until you get used to it.

Matt Simis

BostonB wrote: »

Just because a car can do a speed doesn't mean you should. Your meant to have common sense and back off if its too much. Its meant to be a city, urban commuter.

Im not debating that (or even hinting it, I dont get what your point is). I even said the super minis are great urban commuter cars.
But this is Ireland and people use the cheapest crap for the job, I pass similar cars on my way to work every morning, motorway and backroad alike.

And as noted, these cars are not good motorway cars, but legally totally legit. Most people have 1 car, the car they use to goto Mass on Sunday is the same car they use to drive to work on Monday.. and given this is Ireland, "work" is likely to be 50km of poorly maintained national roads.

ShadowHearth

af_thefragile wrote: »

Well those small old 1l cars are made to get you from A to B in no hurry. They're not made for motorway blasting at 120kmph or to be trashed down country roads...

Hence if you drive them within the speed limits, they're safe to drive.

I could do 100km/h on that road with Corsa. I did barely 60 and I was pooping my pants!

BostonB

Matt Simis wrote: »

Im not debating that (or even hinting it, I dont get what your point is). I even said the super minis are great urban commuter cars.
But this is Ireland and people use the cheapest crap for the job, I pass similar cars on my way to work every morning, motorway and backroad alike.

And as noted, these cars are not good motorway cars, but legally totally legit. Most people have 1 car, the car they use to goto Mass on Sunday is the same car they use to drive to work on Monday.. and given this is Ireland, "work" is likely to be 50km of poorly maintained national roads.

Thats not the fault of the car.

BostonB

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I could do 100km/h on that road with Corsa. I did barely 60 and I was pooping my pants!

Could <> Should

Matt Simis

BostonB wrote: »

Thats not the fault of the car.

Cars are things, Im not sure why you are so defensive about them. Being crap at high speed is completely the fault of the car, as much as being excellent at high speed is directly connected to a better car.

A workman is only as good as his tools.

listermint

Why is is great,

The sound of the straight 6 and the rasp of the quad exhaust. Plus the feel of the sports steering wheel with M Stitching.



cant beat it.

BostonB

Matt Simis wrote: »

Cars are things, Im not sure why you are so defensive about them. Being crap at high speed is completely the fault of the car, as much as being excellent at high speed is directly connected to a better car.

A workman is only as good as his tools.

A bad workman blames his tools.

I'm not defending the car, I'm picking holes in the logic. Which originally was that low powered cars are unsafe because of the lack of power. Which is illogical. because adding power to that car doesn't make it safer. Now you've switched to the state of the roads, and using a low powered city car, for high speed driving. If you picked am inappropriate car, that's not the fault of the car, neither is the state of the roads, which is what my comment was in context with. To cap it all you're now saying better car is better.

Its a city car not a GT. Drive it accordingly.

Matt Simis

BostonB wrote: »

A bad workman blames his tools.

I'm not defending the car, I'm picking holes in the logic. Which originally was that low powered cars are unsafe because of the lack of power. Which is illogical. because adding power to that car doesn't make it safer. Now you've switched to the state of the roads, and using a low powered city car, for high speed driving. If you picked am inappropriate car, that's not the fault of the car, neither is the state of the roads, which is what my comment was in context with. To cap it all you're now saying better car is better.

Its a city car not a GT. Drive it accordingly.

Fine, but this isnt the point of the tangent. Im just trying to bring a dose of reality to this, I see these people/cars everyday, we all do. Its all very well you sitting there doling out the ideal car for each specific job, but in the real world, people dont do this. They have one underpowered piece of crap for everything.

Infact a lot of people would not see driving a 1.x litre as inappropriate as you suggest, they feel perfectly entitled to drive within their cars means (which is to say slower than they could in another "better" car). I believe in minimum acceptable speeds and from my perspective there is no confusion (all the ifs and buts you are throwing up) over good and bad cars.

ottostreet

BostonB wrote: »

You're just rambling mate. You were complaining about the lack of power being unsafe, now your just complaining how you're not used to a small car.

How am I rambling? I never said I wasn't used to a small car, I was driving it for a week. What I am saying is that it feels very unsafe to be in such a common car, and yet feel utterly disconnected from the road. I adhere to 90% of speed limits, and yet, I don't feel safe. The lack of power is one thing, the lack of any sort of driving finesse to the car is another. This car is in perfect mechanical condition, with brand new tyres, and to me, it just feels like ****.

I then step into one of my 'higher performance' cars, ie. my FTO or 330ci, and it feels like a car should, safe and connected, while doing the same speeds.

Worztron

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Ah it's not the top speed that counts, it's all about how quickly you get to it!

Why? Who are you chasing or where are you rushing to? Or being chased by?

Use a car to just get from A to B and stop the slaughter with speeding cars.

-Chris-

OK, everyone relax

@BostonB, Matt Simis & ottostreet - take it to PM or another thread, I reckon you're off-topic at this stage.

@Worztron - this is not the right place for an anti-speeding rant. This is not a thread about speeding (and boards.ie don't condone breaking the law anyway). Again, please start a new thread if you wish to discuss this topic.

ottostreet

-Chris- wrote: »

OK, everyone relax

@BostonB, Matt Simis & ottostreet - take it to PM or another thread, I reckon you're off-topic at this stage.

@Worztron - this is not the right place for an anti-speeding rant. This is not a thread about speeding (and boards.ie don't condone breaking the law anyway). Again, please start a new thread if you wish to discuss this topic.

Sorry Chris

stevenmu

Two words: On ramps.


Apart from that we have some stunning roads in Ireland. Some of the roads I've driven around the west coast of Mayo/Galway are breathtaking. And I'm sure they'd be good in any car, but driving them in a nimble perfectly balanced sports car where you feel completely at one with the car is mind blowing. Even at speeds far below the speed limit, but having the power to shoot back up to the limit after a tight bend adds a lot to it too.

Even in traffic around towns, a good performance car is still a pleasure to drive, they handle well and the extra brake and suspension/handling abilities leave you much more margin for error. A turn of speed helps with merging too. The only real downside here is getting frustrated being held up by other drivers taking off slowly, turning slowly, and slowing/stopping for no apparant reason (this is always a factor but I think that the better the car you have, the more noticeable it is).

BostonB

ottostreet wrote: »

How am I rambling? I never said I wasn't used to a small car, I was driving it for a week. What I am saying is that it feels very unsafe to be in such a common car, and yet feel utterly disconnected from the road. I adhere to 90% of speed limits, and yet, I don't feel safe. The lack of power is one thing, the lack of any sort of driving finesse to the car is another. This car is in perfect mechanical condition, with brand new tyres, and to me, it just feels like ****.

I then step into one of my 'higher performance' cars, ie. my FTO or 330ci, and it feels like a car should, safe and connected, while doing the same speeds.

I'm saying you are not used to driving that specific car.

You're used to driving two cars specifically designed for good handling and feel. Their whole ethos is designed around driving feel.

That era polo is well known for its boat like handling, soft rolling suspension, and numb steering an feel. Evo said of the 2002 replacement,

Thankfully, the chassis offers an improvement over the limp and uninvolved car it replaces.

Edit- Sorry didn't see the mod comment till now. I'll shurrup.

Glowing

stevenmu wrote: »

And I'm sure they'd be good in any car, but driving them in a nimble perfectly balanced sports car where you feel completely at one with the car is mind blowing. Even at speeds far below the speed limit, but having the power to shoot back up to the limit after a tight bend adds a lot to it too.

Curious to know what car you drive?

BostonB

The seats are better....

stevenmu

Glowing wrote: »

Curious to know what car you drive?

Rx8, a lovely car to drive around the open windy roads (and IIRC you cars slightly bigger brother?)

Wolverine_1999

stevenmu wrote: »

Two words: On ramps.


Apart from that we have some stunning roads in Ireland. Some of the roads I've driven around the west coast of Mayo/Galway are breathtaking. And I'm sure they'd be good in any car, but driving them in a nimble perfectly balanced sports car where you feel completely at one with the car is mind blowing. Even at speeds far below the speed limit, but having the power to shoot back up to the limit after a tight bend adds a lot to it too.

Even in traffic around towns, a good performance car is still a pleasure to drive, they handle well and the extra brake and suspension/handling abilities leave you much more margin for error. A turn of speed helps with merging too. The only real downside here is getting frustrated being held up by other drivers taking off slowly, turning slowly, and slowing/stopping for no apparant reason (this is always a factor but I think that the better the car you have, the more noticeable it is).

Some great roads I know around Kerry where I can go up and down and up and... in a properly powered car with the top down, there's nothing more invigorating!

af_thefragile

I saw a BMW 750li today.

Talk about performance and comfort...