How legal is poker in Ireland?

Console

Not talking about casino's as its obviously legal there. But what about pub games and also even poker sites. As you may of heard alot of the bigger american poker sites shut down last week cause of the FBI :rolleyes: (the land of the free my ass)

So whats the deal over here? ... As long as you have a gambling license you can open a site?
and also, is pub poker fringe? ... i hear its flat out illegal to have a game of poker in a pub in the uk (officially anyways :cool:)

Ps, I'm in the camp that we are all adults and have a right to gamble if we wish to do so. But just wondering whats the stance of it over here.

orourkeda

Full Tilt and poker stars are still operating here

admiralofthefleet

are casinos legal or is it still a grey area?

Console

thats odd.
i went to the site http://fulltiltpoker.com/
FBI warnings come up for me.

orourkeda

Console wrote: »

thats odd.
i went to the site http://fulltiltpoker.com/
FBI warnings come up for me.

they are now using fulltiltpoker.co.uk

steddyeddy

orourkeda wrote: »

they are now using fulltiltpoker.co.uk

Online poker is banned in some states in america i think.

upandcumming

The idiots must have registered it in the USA.

orourkeda

steddyeddy wrote: »

Online poker is banned in some states in america i think.

It is. There were arrests recently of some high level staff at the two largest onlne poker sites in the world for fraud and money laundering for accepting u.s players.

marco_polo

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

are casinos legal or is it still a grey area?

Basically all Casinos in Ireland are private clubs, which is why you always have to sign up for membership in order to enter one. So its all above board.

orourkeda

upandcumming wrote: »

The idiots must have registered it in the USA.

Full tilt are based in the channel islands

Raze_them_all

Poker clubs are illegal. Card clubs that are member only are ok.

Console

marco_polo wrote: »

Basically all Casinos in Ireland are private clubs, which is why you always have to sign up for membership in order to enter one. So its all above board.

So basically, a guy could set up a "poker club" and run pub poker there for a legal technicality?

Degag

Strange that there hasn't been more media coverage of this. Poker sites like Full Tilt and Pokerstars are multi billion euro businesses these days.

First i heard of it was when i got an email from Pokerstars over the weekend!

lecker Hendl

For pub games, don't they have to advertise that some of the money is going to a charity or something. It can't be solely for winning. It's illegal to play a game amongst your friends in a pub (maybe at home) for cash. Hence the chips I guess. This could all be very wrong.

StupidLikeAFox

Heres a link to the article in question http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/18/feds-crack-down-on-web-poker-by-arresting-bankers/

What is the rationale for this law, why did they ban it in the first place?

Owwmykneecap

Flowers By Irene are amateurs, look at that .jpg artefacting
Use .png, idiots.

Fart

Here in the UK, I play three times a week, twice in a Red Tooth Poker League and once in a Nuts League. You can look them up if you want.

It's legal to play poker in pubs here, but the pot size can not go over £100. If there are 20 people playing, they would have to pay £5, any more playing, the buy-in is reduced.

With that said, the leagues are free to play and buying in is not necessary.
They should adopt something like this over in Ireland, as it makes for a great night out.

Fart

Owwmykneecap wrote: »

Flowers By Irene are amateurs, look at that .jpg artefacting
Use .png, idiots.

Bloody pathetic eh? Especially in this day in age.

Ponster

Console wrote: »

and also, is pub poker fringe? ... i hear its flat out illegal to have a game of poker in a pub in the uk (officially anyways :cool:)

The Gaming and Lotteries Act 1956 is your friend !

General Zod

ok, Online poker is not banned in the US. *Some* sites have been closed down due to a fraud investigation, not due to poker being illegal.

Casinos are defacto illegal in Ireland, they get around this by operating as Private Members clubs, which are legal.

Buceph

General Zod wrote: »

Casinos are defacto illegal in Ireland, they get around this by operating as Private Members clubs, which are legal.

It should also be noted that they're not doing this in a sneaky way. The government knows full well what's going on, and doesn't have a problem with it. Especially as the casino's size are limited. And there have been government talks about allowing one or two mega-casino resorts to open up. But they'd need a special license to do so.

seamus

There are also technicalities around poker tournaments.

It's technically illegal to play a game for cash (i.e. by throwing cash on the table), but buy-in tournaments with a cash pot are legal and covered by the gaming act. I think a licence is required to hold these tournaments.

Once the players pay to enter and there's a cash prize at the end, it's considered a game of skill or chance. But paying in for each hand is illegal. For some reason.

Masked Man

orourkeda wrote: »

It is. There were arrests recently of some high level staff at the two largest onlne poker sites in the world for fraud and money laundering for accepting us players.

I think it was pretty low level people or people involved in defrauding the banks that were arrested. The high level people are in places like The Isle of Man (PS), Costa Rica (UB) and Ireland (FT). It's good that ft's owners are in Ireland because



mpethybridge on 2p2 posted that

seamus

In terms of the "what takes priority", the Irish courts would weigh up the potential penalties.

So imagine if crime 1 is both a crime in Ireland and the US, and crime 2 is only a crime in the US. But the penalty for crime 2 is 20 years, and for crime 1 it's six months, then the Irish courts will most likely refuse to grant the extradition.

In these cases, I gather the alleged fraud is far more of an issue than running a poker site.

Degag

General Zod wrote: »

ok, Online poker is not banned in the US. *Some* sites have been closed down due to a fraud investigation, not due to poker being illegal.

Casinos are defacto illegal in Ireland, they get around this by operating as Private Members clubs, which are legal.

But gambling is in certain states afaik, and the poker companies were not supposed to accept people from these areas as members.

Masked Man

Degag wrote: »

But gambling is in certain states afaik, and the poker companies were not supposed to accept people from these areas as members.

Poker isn't gambling. That's probably going to be the cornerstone of their defence against most of the charges. I think some of the charges about defrauding banks might not be fall under this defence though.

Zab

seamus wrote: »

In terms of the "what takes priority", the Irish courts would weigh up the potential penalties.

So imagine if crime 1 is both a crime in Ireland and the US, and crime 2 is only a crime in the US. But the penalty for crime 2 is 20 years, and for crime 1 it's six months, then the Irish courts will most likely refuse to grant the extradition.

In these cases, I gather the alleged fraud is far more of an issue than running a poker site.

Great, was wondering about that. The situation with with the poker sites are slightly more complicated, though. They're being accused of operating an illegal gambling site, bank fraud and money laundering. The bank fraud and money laundering will be the serious charges (30 and 20 years max as opposed to five for most of the gambling charges) but the bank fraud was all due to illegal gambling. I read an American lawyer writing that the UK wouldn't extradite because of that, but it'll be interesting to see. Regardless of their reason they still committed bank fraud, although the fraud doesn't involve theft. It also seems that they essentially purchased some smaller banks in order to get them to ignore a regulation or two.

AstonMartin

DOJ is looking for $3bn in fines and penalties from 3 companies.

thats the main reason.
Warmongering is an expensive hobby.

casinoshop.ie

Console wrote: »

Not talking about casino's as its obviously legal there. But what about pub games and also even poker sites. As you may of heard alot of the bigger american poker sites shut down last week cause of the FBI :rolleyes: (the land of the free my ass)

and also, is pub poker fringe? ... i hear its flat out illegal to have a game of poker in a pub in the uk (officially anyways :cool:)

Gambling between 2 people in a pub is perfectly fine. If the publican gets involved and takes a percentage or operates with an edge over the players its illegal. If however the publican charges you a fixed fee to sit on the seat (facilitation fee) that's fine too.

Hence a poker game in a pub must separate the "facilitation fee" and the money for the prize pot. Therefore you will see all games as €xx + €xx. To be pedantic and 100% legal, all prize money should be given out on the night though many do keep a small amount for a league final.

Cash games are in a grey area as again the pub does not have a house edge, hence is not operating a gambling game. If a fixed hourly fee is charged, there's no problem, however if its a percentage a pedantic garda could say the pub has an "interest" in the game and therefore participating in the game.

However as this is a very grey area of law and as the only 2 known cases were thown out of court the games can continue as they are. - There are even some games (including cash ones) in a couple of garda stations (after work only of course:D)