Gardaí struggling to pay bills - AGSI

sillybird

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just not listening to people in highly secure positions on very well paid salaries and allowances, claiming that they are being screwed, when I personally know of some folks in the private sector who are doing up to 5-8 hours a week for free, without hope of overtime, because their boss needs them in on Saturday or to get through stuff from home in the evenings or out of hour meetings just to keep the doors open.

At least when a Garda does overtime, it gets paid and paid well.

So in life your always going to get people that are on better salaries etc. This is where you need to let go man. BREATH!!
I missed the part where it said they were being screwed. Now that you mention voluntary work I have two friends in the Garda who speak at suicide awareness meetings that are held for young people of the community and are involved in speaking at various youth club meetings as part of their Garda work outside normal working hours and they DO NOT get paid overtime. They attend suicide seminars during their own free time to build the skills that are needed in such a sensitive area that is becoming too common now. I just think you need to boraden your mind and not paint all Garda with the same brush.

I have been in the situation you described above but at the end of the day I was grateful to have a job which unfortunately I no longer have. It could be worse. I have a roof over my head. It's a struggle at times but my God there are people much worse of than me. So instead of begrudging those who are more well off them me I try to help those who are less well off than me.

sillybird

Offy wrote: »

I could not disagree more! I blame the cops that beat up our students for protesting. I blame ......ah to tell the truth I dont give a toss, they earn a moderate income and so what if 1% cant manage their income? Who other than that 1% cares? I certainly dont. But really they are overpaid and they do provide a crap service most of the time cos they dont give a crap themselves. Thats Irelands problem, nobody really gives a crap, no wonder we're going down the crapper, everythings crap!!! Crap pay. Crap interest rates. Crap HSE. Crap government. Crap IMF. Crap weather. Crap crap crap but I still love it keep moaning Ireland, thats the way to go!!!!!!

:D

I bet your glad you didn't grow up in the 70's then you would know what a real beating from a cop would feel like

Your just like one of them! Stop moaning get out there!! Many complain about the service they provide. What would your solution be?

stoneill

angelfire9 wrote: »

Not true there are set retirement ages!!



Circa €80 p.week will not pay a mortgage!


NO
They cannot get into debt it is nothing to do with bankrupcy!


Source:http://www.gra.cc/gardai_are_suffering_too_-_eve.shtml


Garda pensions are taxable
First 40k (approx) @20%
remainder @42%


Gardai dont have that option!



Lets do a little calculation here guys so you can see what income we have in our household at present (my husband is a cop)
After 11 years service Gross Pay €46,602
Net Pay per week €565.31
Source: http://www.gra.cc/net_reductions_2008_-2011.shtml

Deductions from payslip (at source) WEEKLY
GRA Subscription €7.05
Life Assurance/ critical illness/ Life Cover €13.50
Garda & Clare Division Benevolent funds €3.76
Medical Aid (Health insurance) €62.33

Which leaves a Net Pay per week on the payslip of €478.67

Assuming a 4 week month this is €1914.70 per month
Monthly expenses:

Mortgage 700
Petrol 240 (60 per week in and out of work for hubby)
Electricity 100
Gas/Heating 100
Food 500 (feeding 2 Adults 2 kids (1 of which is a baby)

Balance per month is down to €274.00
Which (again assuming a 4 week month) is 68.67 per week

Per Annum Equivalent (52 weeks) €3570.84

Now I already hear ye saying that we are doing well to have that kind of money spare every year with all the household bills paid
BUT
Then there comes these little expenses:
Per ANNUM:
House Insurance 400
Car Insurance 400
Car Tax 470
Car Maintenance (1 service) 200
Car Tyres (1 set per year) 280
Non reimbursable Medical Expenses 840 (THIS IS FOR MEDICATION ONLY & ASSUMES ZERO DOCTORS & HOSPITAL VISITS)

These add up to €2590 per year

Which leaves our household with a surplus income of €980.84 or WOW a whole €18.86 per week

Now there are the other things that have to be paid
Christmas Presents for the eldest child
Clothing & Footwear for 2 children
School books & uniforms
These come out of the children's allowance

So in actual fact we live from hand to mouth EVERY WEEK

Neither my husband nor I have bought new clothes for ourselves in YEARS
We have not been on a holiday since our honeymoon
We both drive cars over 7 years old (04 Fiesta and 02Corolla)


His Net pay is down circa €100 per week from 2008 levels

So PLEASE don't tell me that ALL public servants are overpaid

And before any of ye come back saying that he gets overtime and allowances OT is GONE and not every one gets allowances (bar boot & rent and my husband goes through ALOT of shoes every year)

We can all do these calculations with our wages/salary.
Bottom line - you live within your means.
My employer does not compensate for cost of living, I get paid as per benchmark on equivalent pay with similar companies. Hence no pay rise in last 5 years. And I have to pay for my own boots.

Offy

sillybird wrote: »

:D

I bet your glad you didn't grow up in the 70's then you would know what a real beating from a cop would feel like

Your just like one of them! Stop moaning get out there!! Many complain about the service they provide. What would your solution be?

Blast them all with piss

Offy

angelfire9 wrote: »

Not true there are set retirement ages!!



Circa €80 p.week will not pay a mortgage!


NO
They cannot get into debt it is nothing to do with bankrupcy!


Source:http://www.gra.cc/gardai_are_suffering_too_-_eve.shtml


Garda pensions are taxable
First 40k (approx) @20%
remainder @42%


Gardai dont have that option!



Lets do a little calculation here guys so you can see what income we have in our household at present (my husband is a cop)
After 11 years service Gross Pay €46,602
Net Pay per week €565.31
Source: http://www.gra.cc/net_reductions_2008_-2011.shtml

Deductions from payslip (at source) WEEKLY
GRA Subscription €7.05
Life Assurance/ critical illness/ Life Cover €13.50
Garda & Clare Division Benevolent funds €3.76
Medical Aid (Health insurance) €62.33

Which leaves a Net Pay per week on the payslip of €478.67

Assuming a 4 week month this is €1914.70 per month
Monthly expenses:

Mortgage 700
Petrol 240 (60 per week in and out of work for hubby)
Electricity 100
Gas/Heating 100
Food 500 (feeding 2 Adults 2 kids (1 of which is a baby)

Balance per month is down to €274.00
Which (again assuming a 4 week month) is 68.67 per week

Per Annum Equivalent (52 weeks) €3570.84

Now I already hear ye saying that we are doing well to have that kind of money spare every year with all the household bills paid
BUT
Then there comes these little expenses:
Per ANNUM:
House Insurance 400
Car Insurance 400
Car Tax 470
Car Maintenance (1 service) 200
Car Tyres (1 set per year) 280
Non reimbursable Medical Expenses 840 (THIS IS FOR MEDICATION ONLY & ASSUMES ZERO DOCTORS & HOSPITAL VISITS)

These add up to €2590 per year

Which leaves our household with a surplus income of €980.84 or WOW a whole €18.86 per week

Now there are the other things that have to be paid
Christmas Presents for the eldest child
Clothing & Footwear for 2 children
School books & uniforms
These come out of the children's allowance

So in actual fact we live from hand to mouth EVERY WEEK

Neither my husband nor I have bought new clothes for ourselves in YEARS
We have not been on a holiday since our honeymoon
We both drive cars over 7 years old (04 Fiesta and 02Corolla)


His Net pay is down circa €100 per week from 2008 levels

So PLEASE don't tell me that ALL public servants are overpaid

And before any of ye come back saying that he gets overtime and allowances OT is GONE and not every one gets allowances (bar boot & rent and my husband goes through ALOT of shoes every year)

Public servents are overpaid, ah no really, he should sign on. Im pulling nearly six ton a week on the scrach and sure yed get more then me See what I mean about crap pay? Its no wonder cops dont like coke, they just cant afford it, maybe thats why they love taking drug dealers coke?

sillybird

HellFireClub wrote: »

But the rent allowance which is tax free is a very generous 4,162.48 Euro a year, which is 346.87 Euro a month. I appreciate you sharing your figures with us, but you are not experiencing anything that other folks living within a single income environment are not also experiencing.

It seems to me yet again that the Gardai are trying to make the case for them to be sufficiently paid so that only one of the parents/couple has to work. That isn't the case for any other couple who are living on one average industrial wage, so why should it be the case that Gardai get paid better so that the rule of thumb that we have in this country which seems to be that if you have a family you need two parents working, why should Gardai be exempt from this, which is the norm for all other couples I know where there isn't an exceptional circumstance such as for example a high earner such as a GP, solicitor or a hospital consultant out earning the crust for the family???

She was highlighting in defense while you were bashing the Gardai in earlier posts that they DO NOT receive enormous salaries after deductions are accounted for.

Where do you see that the Gardai are are trying to make a case for only one parent to work? This lady was stating what their household income is at the moment. She may have been made redundant from her job. We don't know her circumstances.

Build a bridge and stop trying to nit pick and raising pety arguments.

Offy

sillybird wrote: »

She was highlighting in defense while you were bashing the Gardai in earlier posts that they DO NOT receive enormous salaries after deductions are accounted for.

Where do you see that the Gardai are are trying to make a case for only one parent to work? This lady was stating what their household income is at the moment. She may have been made redundant from her job. We don't know her circumstances.

Build a bridge and stop trying to nit pick and raising pety arguments.

Ya and all that but €40k is still to high for a cop in Ireland in 2011.

sillybird

Offy wrote: »

Ya and all that but €40k is still to high for a cop in Ireland in 2011.

Did you misread 40k isn't take home pay :rolleyes:

Offy

sillybird wrote: »

Did you misread 40k isn't take home pay :rolleyes:

Its just to much, we are in a recession and everyone has to tighten their belts.

sillybird

Offy wrote: »

Its just to much, we are in a recession and everyone has to tighten their belts.

If I remember correctly they have taken a 20% pay-cut to date with probably more to come. I just think for the work the majority do they deserve what they get. There not all bad. I certainly wouldn't have the patience for it ...

dar4

i belive that garda s should b payed every cent of their wage tax free and the irish army as well but on 1 condition that they tightng up on t5her racism and general disdaian for normal people that might the odd time step out of line like we all can do but hit the real "scum" hard porper hard and expect the same if u do the same ?

Offy

sillybird wrote: »

If I remember correctly they have taken a 20% pay-cut to date with probably more to come. I just think for the work the majority do they deserve what they get. There not all bad. I certainly wouldn't have the patience for it ...

No they are not all bad, most of the experienced ones are very professional but still, they are overpaid. €40k? to much Im afraid. IMF take note: Less pay for AGS

stoneill

Mod - can ye close this thread.

It's just going to be "we're not paid enough - Oh yes you are" from now on.

sillybird

stoneill wrote: »

Mod - can ye close this thread.

It's just going to be "we're not paid enough - Oh yes you are" from now on.

pressure getting to you?

Offy

sillybird wrote: »

pressure getting to you?

Nah this topic gets boring very quick. There should be a recycle bin somewhere for garda threads.

dar4

greenoverred wrote: »

Im just going to make a couple of points and try to clear things up for some misinformed people posting on this thread.First of A garda on 11 years service has had pay cut from €46,600 to around €43,700The rent allowance of €79.68 is taxable.So let take for example a Garda on €43,700 increases his/her pay to €50,000 with overtime, rent allowance, unsocial hours etc. This is what take home works out at Taxable pay 50000PAYE 7500Pension Cont. 3000 Pension Levy 3750PRSI 2000USC 2800 30950Med Insurance 3000Mortgage/Rent 9000Car, Petrol,Insurance, Tax 7000 GRA 300 11650Car is needed to travel to work. Rent/Mortgage is what I think would be a modest mortgage. Could vary depending on station.Im not going to get into an arguement about whether pay is good or bad. Just taught Id post a few figures.

**** that hurts iv no pension a medical card that in fairness i dont use i get 186 and i pay my rent private a few bob 4 food and i drink the rest so i dont get out much anymore but sure who does anymore so lets get to gether and blame/get the people that cuased this exact upset?

greenoverred

Im just going to make a couple of points and try to clear a few things up.

First of a garda on 11 years service has had pay cut from €46,600 to around €43,700
The rent allowance of €79.68 is taxable.
So I'll take for example a Garda on €43,700 increases his/her pay to €50,000 with overtime, rent allowance, unsocial hours
Taxable pay 50000
Paye. 7500
Pension. 3000
Pension levy. 3750
Prsi. 2000
USC. 2800. Take Home 30950

Rent/Mortgage. 9000
Med insurance. 3000
Insurance Tax. 7000
GRA. 300. Left Over. 11650
Car is needed to travel to work. Rent/Mortgage is what I think would be a modest mortgage. Could vary depending on station.

zirazira

Offy wrote: »

Nah this topic gets boring very quick. There should be a recycle bin somewhere for garda threads.

Yup, a recycle bin is necessary.

audidiesel

heres the real world example - me. im a guard just under four years.

for the first fifteen months or so i was paid about 180 a week. nowadays i make approx 450 each week after tax. once a month i get an extra 250-350 for nighttime allowences/ot/bank holidays etc

like most adults in their mid to late 20's and beyond ive a mortgage aswell.

so yeah its fair to say im struggling.

statistically because of the shift patterns i work im likely to be dead by the age of 76 (i finish at 10pm and am back in at 6am twice a week when not on nights).

i think its ok to expect a reasonable standard of living for doing a job which significantly lowers life expectancy and carries a high risk of injury (CSO puts average life expectancy at about 82 years for non guards - so the job costs me 6 years at the end of my life).

the_syco

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'm speaking from my own first hand experience, when as I said, I recently went for an interview and was told to my face that my lack of experience of working in a PS environment was something that was going to go against me. I was told this to my face and whether you believe that or not is not something I'm interested in debating with you as I know what I was told.

That was nice of the interviewer. Most interviewers will just say that "we'll be in contact with you", and not say anything about why you're not getting the job. There is a few that do tell you, so you now know how to improve yourself for the next interview. Next time, you may need to reword your CV to emphasise the experience that you have that they need.

HellFireClub wrote: »

recruitment embargo on in the PS...

You acknowledge the recruitment embargo, but still wonder why someone not in the PS didn't get the job? Um...

Logical Fallacy

Bosco boy wrote: »

if money was my god I'd have gone into the private sector.

Or take a few bribes?

I'm still curious about that statement. Do you feel bribe taking is a big issue in the Gardai or was that just a throwaway comment in an emotional moment?

Bosco boy

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Or take a few bribes?

I'm still curious about that statement. Do you feel bribe taking is a big issue in the Gardai or was that just a throwaway comment in an emotional moment?

€50 and I'll tell you!

Logical Fallacy

Bosco boy wrote: »

€50 and I'll tell you!

I think it's a fairly reasonable question to give a proper answer to. You either feel it is an issue among some members of the Gardai for assorted reasons or you just got a bit carried away in a thread that is obviously an important issue for you.

Bosco boy

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I think it's a fairly reasonable question to give a proper answer to. You either feel it is an issue among some members of the Gardai for assorted reasons or you just got a bit carried away in a thread that is obviously an important issue for you.

I don't believe it's a problem, but common sence will tell you that if police officers world wide are under financial pressure there is an increased possibility that some of them will be corrupted by criminal gangs flush with cash, I believe the cost to the state in the long run will be far greater than what they will save in any future proposed cuts. If you want to go down that road that's fine but the public will suffer in the long run. I don't expect you to understand though!

Logical Fallacy

Bosco boy wrote: »

I don't believe it's a problem, but common sence will tell you that if police officers world wide are under financial pressure there is an increased possibility that some of them will be corrupted by criminal gangs flush with cash, I believe the cost to the state in the long run will be far greater than what they will save in any future proposed cuts. If you want to go down that road that's fine but the public will suffer in the long run. I don't expect you to understand though!

Cheers for taking the time to answer, i can see where you are coming from.

As for not expecting me to understand, that's fine, i never expect to get a decent or coherent answer out of a copper.

Bosco boy

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Cheers for taking the time to answer, i can see where you are coming from.

As for not expecting me to understand, that's fine, i never expect to get a decent or coherent answer out of a copper.

Maybe that remark was unfair and if it was I apologise, next time I'll try to be coherent and decent!

Logical Fallacy

Bosco boy wrote: »

Maybe that remark was unfair and if it was I apologise, next time I'll try to be coherent and decent!

No problem.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

greenoverred wrote: »

Im just going to make a couple of points and try to clear a few things up.

First of a garda on 11 years service has had pay cut from €46,600 to around €43,700
The rent allowance of €79.68 is taxable.
So I'll take for example a Garda on €43,700 increases his/her pay to €50,000 with overtime, rent allowance, unsocial hours
Taxable pay 50000
Paye. 7500
Pension. 3000
Pension levy. 3750
Prsi. 2000
USC. 2800. Take Home 30950


Rent/Mortgage. 9000
Med insurance. 3000
Insurance Tax. 7000
GRA. 300. Left Over. 11650
Car is needed to travel to work. Rent/Mortgage is what I think would be a modest mortgage. Could vary depending on station.

My heart is bleeding. What do they want? If the Guards wanted more money in life they should have never joined up to the force. They don't create any wealth. This country will never be right until public servant jobs are concidered sh1te again. Who pays their wages anyway?

gurramok

greenoverred wrote: »

Im just going to make a couple of points and try to clear a few things up.

First of a garda on 11 years service has had pay cut from €46,600 to around €43,700
The rent allowance of €79.68 is taxable.
So I'll take for example a Garda on €43,700 increases his/her pay to €50,000 with overtime, rent allowance, unsocial hours
Taxable pay 50000
Paye. 7500
Pension. 3000
Pension levy. 3750
Prsi. 2000
USC. 2800. Take Home 30950

Rent/Mortgage. 9000
Med insurance. 3000
Insurance Tax. 7000
GRA. 300. Left Over. 11650
Car is needed to travel to work. Rent/Mortgage is what I think would be a modest mortgage. Could vary depending on station.

Surprised no-one picked up on this. Assuming net pay is correct before 'bills' and given the mortgage looks fair, fair enough.

Now, what is this?? It ain't health insurance. It cannot be for a car, its far too high.

Insurance Tax. 7000 which is 588 pm.

HellFireClub

the_syco wrote: »

That was nice of the interviewer. Most interviewers will just say that "we'll be in contact with you", and not say anything about why you're not getting the job. There is a few that do tell you, so you now know how to improve yourself for the next interview. Next time, you may need to reword your CV to emphasise the experience that you have that they need.


You acknowledge the recruitment embargo, but still wonder why someone not in the PS didn't get the job? Um...

Nothing to do with a CV or interview techniques. Go back and read what I said previously. What I said was that it was made clear to me that me having come from a non PS background, was mitaging against me at interview.

The reason for this apparently was that I was coming from an environment where I was empowered to make decisions without consultation, (which is not actually a true analysis whatsoever, as in business you make key decisions in communion with professional advisors such as your acocuntant, solicitor, etc), but that I and others from my background might have had some level of difficulty with fitting into a what is a unionised hierarchy and what was described to me as an overarching beaurocracy.

The way this was presented to me at interview, for this avoidance of doubt, is that this was nothing against me personally, but that the timeframe for adapting to this new culture, in the context of a project such as a census running on for a few weeks, wasn't probably long enough for someone coming from my background to adapt.

I completely disagree, but this is the kind of PS bullsh*t nonsense you are up against these days, where it makes more sense to send kids home from the local primary school because it is considered "safer" to give the vacancy to a teacher who will just take the time off to go at it, so pay someone two salaries and leave someone on the dole, because God forbid what would happen to the poor interviewer for the next census if there was some issue and he didn't run with the safest option of them all and didn't give the position to one of his PS unionised brethern, so once his PS arse was covered, that was all that mattered.

One thing I've learnt about the PS over the last 12-24 months, is that this is the only thing that shows up on their radar in relation to their activities at work, is that their arse must always remain covered, that is all that matters with them, that they have the little file somewhere with a letter in it that says that they followed their endless bullsh*t procedure down to the little small print at the bottom of the page, "it'll all be grand Jack because we're covered"... But as a customer, the system, the procedure doesn't work, it doesn't actually achieve anything other than keeping someone in a job, and if I ask what is going to be done about that, I get the wry smirk and the all knowing nod that says, "I'm grand, I've done my job, it mightn't have had f*ck all of an impact on what you needed to get done, but I'm covered"... Then if you have to appeal a decision, the ranks close immediately and the intensity of the whole beaurocracy multiplies by a factor of 10.

This is the mindset that I've found the PS to be infected with that has folks like me dispising those behind the counter when it comes to the delivery of public services.

I might add, this is not how I feel about Gardai. I think they do a hard job and they are generally a useful and accommodative bunch of people, give or take the odd one or two. My issue here on topic and on this thread is that they apply for the job in the full knowledge of what it involves, and I don't think it's a bad earner when the totality of the package is looked at, I certainly don't think it is anything to be moaning over in fairness.

One thing I will say is that this "it's someone else's job to sort that out", is also evident in the Gardai. Just take a walk down Talbot Street, which is now basically a no-go area for decent people.

I recently asked a Garda I know, what is going on with the state of that area. The reply was that it is only the job of Gardai to get these junkies into court, whatever happens thereafter is not of any interest to them. So the whole system becomes a revolving door system, and nobody takes ownership of the wider issue and the very obvious inefficiencies that emerge from Gardai shunting junkies all over the city, moving them on, in all seriousness I have to ask, what is the purpose or point in "moving on" a junkie???

I respect our Gardai but the whole system they operate within, it seems to me is falling down around them, but instead of them trying to change that, I'm listening to perceived hardship from 120 Gardai???