Michael Collins (the movie)

CDfm

Tell me the one about "comely maidens" again

DeV was crafty and WT was able to balance the books and regulate the Central Bank plus negotiate sovereign debt repayments in 1925 - 85 years ago ...and he was a publican & grocer .

brianthebard

I was sure he was a journalist but some might say that's worse than a publican.

CDfm

MarchDub wrote: »

To CDfm - before and after the movie there are people who still give Dev a lot of respect. The movie lacked balance and historical accuracy.

It is always played down that democracy and universal suffrage was a new thing but also was one system of government - Ireland was the first colony to get independence and try it.

Germany was newly democratic, & with Spain, Italy, Russia etc lots of democracies of that generation failed.

CDfm

brianthebard wrote: »

I was sure he was a journalist but some might say that's worse than a publican.

Cosgraves pub is now Kenny's 174 James St across from St James Hospital Dublin.



It is not known whether DeV's sons used to go pinting there on the basis that "its the last place the Da will look for us". Terry DeValera's biography is silent on the matter.

CDfm

MarchDub wrote: »

And I too am tired of hearing the "comely maidens" speech quoted out of context. Most who quote that line have not ever read the entire.

To CDfm - before and after the movie there are people who still give Dev a lot of respect. The movie lacked balance and historical accuracy.

Ah but he didnt really say "comely maidens dancing at the cross roads " did he - its like a Goldwynism.

http://www.cobbles.com/simpp_archive/goldwynisms_kanin.htm

I heard a John A Costello speech that was almost Churchill in both content and delivery recently.

DeV gets a bit of a bashing and the romanticised portrayal of him is a bit trite.

Is it possible to do a factual DeV thread .

MarchDub

CDfm wrote: »

Ah but he didnt really say "comely maidens dancing at the cross roads " did he - its like a Goldwynism.

Yes - I was referencing the previous poster's [wow sierra] comments.

CDfm wrote: »

DeV gets a bit of a bashing and the romanticised portrayal of him is a bit trite.

Is it possible to do a factual DeV thread .

We did have a Dev thread that Brian started some time ago - maybe it should be given a sticky? I was going to suggest this when we got into Dev here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055868030&highlight=Valera

CDfm

Tabloid DeV

In some ways for me a lot of the hyperbole you get on histories based around speeches etc obscures the facts.

V480

Neil Jordan has said in interview recently that he would have loved to have made a feature film about Collins, as in two or possibly three installments which would have presented a more rounded picture of the character as well as being more historically accurate. Unfortunately he bound by aggreement to make a 2 hour picture suited to an international audience. The film is great in some ways (Liam Neeson's performance in particular) but, as many have already said, it is heavily romanticised and very inaccurate in places.

I think around the same time Kevin Costner was planning to make a movie about Collins, based on a script written by Eoghan Harris if I'm not mistaken? Maby we got off lightly with the Jordan version...

Another interesting prospect was Michael Cimmino (think that's his name) who directed The Deer Hunter. Apparently he was very keen to make a movie about Collins but it never came about. A film about the Squad could have great potential, as previously mentioned. There was big talk of a 1916 movie a while back with a great cast in the pipeline but that seems to have gone by the wayside too.

Ulitmately though I think in any 'historical' movie there are going to be inaccuracies. Artistic license ultimately it didn't do the film much good anyway because it flopped everywhere besides Ireland. Nevertheless it introduced a young generation to a period of history which (in the mid 90's) had been forgotten to an extent.

JustinDee

Liam Neeson's performance?? It was hammed up and pandering to an audience with a high tolerance for woody acting. As for Jordan's time-constraint excuse, sure sure...

MarchDub

CDfm wrote: »

Tabloid DeV

In some ways for me a lot of the hyperbole you get on histories based around speeches etc obscures the facts.

Seeing as how Diarmaid Ferriter has been mentioned here is a quote from his introduction to his Judging Dev programme on RTE.

His most famous broadcast – "The Ireland which we dreamed of" speech in 1943 - has often been inaccurately quoted or dismissed as naïve and sentimental, and subjected to ridicule due to its preoccupation with self-preservation. But when the text is heard or read in full it can be analysed in another, more positive way- as a focused and sincere statement of ideals and healthy ambitions, emphasising the need for a nation to move in a positive direction, and for there to be a scepticism about the idea that material gain would solve all of a country's problems.

http://www.rte.ie/laweb/ll/ll_t09_main_a.html

CDfm

MarchDub wrote: »

Seeing as how Diarmaid Ferriter has been mentioned here is a quote from his introduction to his Judging Dev programme on RTE.

http://www.rte.ie/laweb/ll/ll_t09_main_a.html

in this context - you have "the kings speech " getting oscars and political speeches are always highly stylised and scripted. The "wireless" was new and non-readers had the vote.

So media performance is definately a skill as is oratory and it is interesting that someone will analyse a speech as evidence when it may be spin or a soundbite.

i wonder how it translated into the written word and what was picked up by the cinema news services

how good was DeV at this ?