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5 Best games ever
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Not sure any of the Halo games would be all time classics. One of the first FPS games on console that could stand toe to toe with PC FPS games isn't really something that could make something stand out as a classic.
FPS games age really badly as well with only stuff like Doom with it's no nonsense blasting standing the test of time. Games like Deus Ex and System Shock 2 would be considered all time greats as well but also it's because there's nothing quite like them, I'm sure a modern developer could marry the RPG elements of these games and make better ones with modern hindsight. Unfortunately the market won't let that happen and the only game that's really come close to them was Bioshock which was a very watered down version of System Shock 2.
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You couldn't really revert back to the original art though, you could change back to the original sprites or backgrounds, can't remember which, but one of them retained the awful flash game look while the other remained pixelated and it looked jarring.
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As a tournament level fighter it's fantastic, probably the best iteration of the SF2 series but it's more the aesthetics that put me off. I really hate that high resolution, low detail flash animation look.
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Deleted User wrote: »I don't think i'd agree that one of the halo games wouldn't make it onto that list, maybe 2 or probably 3, as it had quite a large scope and delivered well on it, and was pretty revolutionary fro console gameplay at the time, which is a big part of a "greatest games ever" badge. I take your point that halo was basically apeing a formula that PC games had been doing for years, but i think it pushed the console boundaries forward and spearheaded a whole new sub-genre of games (for better or worse) on the platform. Unfortunately that seems to have led us to where we are now, with wall to wall FPS tedium on modern consoles, but that's another topic for another thread....
See that's the thing. You are basing the reason of the games greatness because of what platform it is on. For me the platform the game is on shouldn't matter, it should be a great game regardless of what it appears on. I guess I was lucky at the time because from 2000 onwards I owned practically every platform games could appear on that was relevant. I think games should be judged on how good they are and not on the basis of how good they are in relation to other games on the same platform
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Have to disagree there. Just because film moved to colour or included CGI didnt mean old films were terrible. A good game like a good film will stand the test of time even if the platform or technology moves on. case in point you mention Zelda, I presume a Link to the Past when you say 1991, and compare it to Halo and Batman AA. Zelda LttP is a much better game hands down. Even in terms of graphics and sound that you mention, the soundtack and simple colourful 2D graphics of LttP look fantastic far better than those two games. In a few years time the overly shiny shaders and other technical hiccups are going to make Halo and Batman AA lookvery dated. On the other hand a game like Wind Waker with a timeless art style still looks amazing today.
The goal posts most certainly aren't moving. A good game will be timeless just like good music, literature or film.
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,633 CMod ✭✭✭✭
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Today my 5 best games ever are as follows...
LHX Attack Chopper- Megadrive
Christ on a bike but spent a lot of time with this low framerate piece of loveliness!
Out in the desert, in a super helicopter, toasting camels with stingers, classy!
Road Rash 2- Megadrive
I lurve the 3DO game, but this iteration was brilliant, slight downer was having to choose between music and sound fx but otherwise it was great, those damn turbo charged bikes, that Diablo!! I got this in '93, for my 21st birthday, along with a copy of LOTR's, two timeless classics!
Manic Miner- Spectrum
Just brilliant fun, not the unfinishable mess that JSW was. Brilliant, inventive, and all on the Spectrum 48k as well.
Star Control 2- 3DO
So big! So funny! And scary at times too.
The game has intrigue, it has puppetmasters behind evil doers, it has everything along with a battle system that was a multiplayer staple.
MSR- DC
Kudos to Bizarre from bringing us this gem of a game, I still play it from time to time, I still suck at it too
But it is lovely, and it has aged at least as well as the first two Gotham games on the Xbox, if not better with it's real time clock and radio stations. 0 -
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Well... I do, I just don't linger on them to the point of I look like I'm training to be their gynecologist.
One can appreciate a handsome woman without forgetting to raise the eyes above their chest.
That said, there is something to said for a fine set of stems it has to be said....
edit... what's this got to do with 5 favourite games, unless cleavage gazing is in your top 5!
It is
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Zelda's music is timeless and beautiful, just because it is not being played back at CD quality and by a choir and orchestra does not reduce it's merit one jot.
Zelda's visuals, similarly, are perfect, the Snes imagining of the Zelda-verse forming the template for all games to follow in the series...
See this is the point of view i hold as well. My primary gauge of what a "great" game is is how good the level of immersion, the playing experience is, the revelations during the game, etc, and technicalities like the graphics, sound, etc, are secondary to all that. If they help the experience, great, but that's not essential. Regardless of up-to-date graphics and technology, there probably hasn't been a game on modern consoles that captivated me as much as Zelda: A link to the past, or Super mario world, or super mario bros 3 did back in the day. A few have come close, but it wasn't primarily because of graphics, sound etc. It was gameplay, story, and immersion. That's where games HAD to excel years ago, because graphics alone back then weren't enough to sell a game. If your gameplay was bad or had no depth, you were found out a lot more easily.
The overall scope of the experience (due to increased levels of storage) is probably the only facet of modern gaming that i would say might have a bearing on how current gen technology may be able to offer a superior experience over retro in terms of game experience and character development/characterisation, but even that advantage only makes a game better because it allows it to pack in more of the same immersion, more experience, more emotional involvement onto a game disc. Without those things, a game just won't grab me the same way regardless of the level of polish.There are plenty of polished, good looking, great sounding games that just don't cut the mustard, who will play Uncharted in 10 years time?
Not me anyway. While i can appreciate a whizz through of uncharted, I've only ever played each game once, had no further interest, then traded them in. They are quite a passive experience, like watching a Hollywood blockbuster action movie that you see once, then forget forever as soon as you leave the cinema, and the "on rails" nature of them means there's less and less to appreciate each time.
That's not what grabs me in a game. It's like being in a relationship with a girl who's really beautiful, but who has zero personality. Unless you're similarly shallow, appreciation of looks will only get you so far before boredom sets in and you crave something with more depth.
Ideally, with games AND girls, you want to play with one that's got both 0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Regardless of up-to-date graphics and technology, there probably hasn't been a game on modern consoles that captivated me as much as Zelda: A link to the past, or Super mario world, or super mario bros 3 did back in the day. A few have come close, but it wasn't primarily because of graphics, sound etc. It was gameplay, story, and immersion. That's where games HAD to excel years ago, because graphics alone back then weren't enough to sell a game. If your gameplay was bad or had no depth, you were found out a lot more easily.
I have to say, although the most recent game I chose in my top 5 was released in 2002, if any truly "modern" game would have made the list it would have been between Super Mario Galaxy 2 and the latest Zelda offering, Skyward Sword.
I know they're the two biggest gaming franchises in the world and thus get serious budget put into each game, but almost every game that comes along in both series' still has a level of imagination, immersion and playability above any others. And those beautiful scores in the modern ones don't hurt either.
There's something magical about how games that are clearly aimed at children can hook me, at 29, the same way as their previous incarnations did when I was 7 or 8, and much more than more gritty, modern style games aimed at the 18+ market.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »The overall scope of the experience (due to increased levels of storage) is probably the only facet of modern gaming that i would say might have a bearing on how current gen technology may be able to offer a superior experience over retro in terms of game experience and character development/characterisation, but even that advantage only makes a game better because it allows it to pack in more of the same immersion, more experience, more emotional involvement onto a game disc. Without those things, a game just won't grab me the same way regardless of the level of polish.
Again stuff like character development/characterisation and even immersion have nothing to do with modern technology but more to do with the writing and making the best use of the technology available. No game has affected me emotionally more than Earthbound and Mother 3 and both of those are presented in 2D. There's very few modern games that come close to the atmosphere and immersion of Silent Hill 2, a game that worked within the limitations of the hardware to achieve this. And then there's super metroid, a game dripping in atmosphere and that was on the lowly SNES.
Great graphics and storage for dialogue didn't help Heavy Rain be badly written dreck. It was Deadly Premonition, a game that would look embarassing on the Dreamcast that I found more engaging.
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Retr0gamer wrote: »Again stuff like character development/characterisation and even immersion have nothing to do with modern technology but more to do with the writing and making the best use of the technology available....
I think we're in agreement here, albeit from different angles...i think...
I think it's great if the technology of the day affords the devs more scope to do things that will add to the game experience, but without the achievement of actually doing that (which is the laudible thing here, rather than the technology itself) it's for nothing.
The majority of my fave games have pushed the technology of the day to the max in a way that greatly added to the game, which i think is a fantastic achievement, far more than just using technology for the sake of it. The achievement is in how far you can push it, and what you do with it, rather than where the technology itself happens to be at the time.
I'll use 2 different games from different time periods to illustrate my point. Once again Zelda Lttp on the snes (because it's just THAT good), and God of war on PS2.
Zelda, a link to the past. That cartridge had a staggering amount of content, vast landscapes and multiple scenarios, an entire immersive world squashed onto it (or TWO worlds, if you want to nitpick) and brilliant characterisation, music, storytelling, and loads more, yet within very VERY tight storage and technological boundaries. Miyamoto and co. literally squeezed the last drop out of what they could have done with the available tech at the time when that game was released. It was a staggering achievement of a game, and rightly deserving of all the praise it got. It was then then, is now, and still will be in another 20 years time.
Then take God of war, released just under 14 years later. A game that arguably set the benchmark for what the by then "getting on a bit" PS2 could do graphically and technically, it came late into the PS2's life, and it really pushed the envelope in using rendered video, orchestral score, voice acting and narration, storytelling, and large amounts of storage and content to really develop a backstory and forge an emotional bond and a desire for retribution that the player wanted more and more to be borne out as the game went on. It was an amazing achievement in gaming for the time, on one of the biggest discs the PS2 saw, and i would name it as a raising of the bar in terms of characterization and emotional development/attachment in games generally.
That level of emotional involvement with the main protagonist just wouldn't have been possible to achieve/portray on screen in the days of zelda lttp. While link is very cool and all, that game (only in my opinon) doesn't make the player develop the same level of visceral emotive connection to it's main protagonist that God of war does, simply because the technology to do it the same way didn't exist. The technology IS a factor.
HOWEVER-(and this is the key point) in terms of the level of achievement in terms of pushing the technology of the day and getting the absolute maximum possible out of it for the benefit of the overall gaming experience. I would STILL put zelda a shade ahead in terms of "greatest" game because i really think it's a monumental achievement by the devs, in that department, and in all others. The advanced technology itself doesn't matter, it's what you do with it that counts.Retr0gamer wrote: »the lowly SNES
The WHAT?
The SNES kicked ass. Still my fave console of all time. Back when gameplay, not graphics, was what mattered. Those were better times....0 -
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I can't say I agree about God of War. I had absolutely no emotional involvement in the game and characters. Kratos was a shallow two dimensional character, they only word I can think of that sums him up is 'bellend'. If you don't like the character there's player empathy and you don't care about them. At least he had a reason to be angry unlike the follow up games where he was just despicable. I don't thinkthe technology added anything to the game either other than it looking pretty.
New technology is rarely used to make games better. However games that work well within the constraints of the technology or the medium are always the best ones.
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