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Gun Deposit
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20-04-2011 10:22am#1
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@ Foxhunter1:rolleyes:
First off, the OP is asking about gun dealers and shops (not about private sales).
But since you asked: "Would you hold the gun for 6 to 12 months until the purchaser gave you the remainder of the cash?"
The answer to that is: Yes, I would. That's how the last couple of lads I bought from dealt with me and that's how I would also do it. I can't see any other fair way of doing it TBH.FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »Lets say you were selling your gun through a private sale and you needed the cash to purchase another gun that you wanted.
Would you hold the gun for 6 to 12 months until the purchaser gave you the remainder of the cash?
What would you do with a Private Sale? The following seems to be the process you'd suggest:
a. Agree the sale of the gun,
b. Collect all of the purchase price (which seems to be what you're implying),
c. You hold onto the gun,
d. The other lad applies for his FAC,
e. You go off and spend "his" money on the purchase of "another gun that you wanted",
d. He doesn't get his licence granted, what then?
You'd hold onto the gun and keep his money (the money you've already spent on another gun?)????
If a lad has put a deposit on a gun and has made all genuine efforts to lodge his FAC application, and keeps me posted on what is going on and stays in contact, my answer is yes, too right I'd hold the gun for him. That's the way I've done my last three firearms purchases - and that's the way the lads selling to me have treated me, so I see no reason why I shouldn't do things in a similar collegiate manner.
In the case of some fellow giving me a deposit and then disappearing off into the ether never to be seen again, I'd simply write to him after a certain time (say after the ostensible three month application period) and ask him when he'll be ready to close the deal and how his application is going.
If after that, I don't hear anything back from him, I'd again write to him (email is very useful!) telling him that if I haven't heard back within a reasonable time, I'll have to presume that, for whatever reasons, he does not want to go through with the deal and his deposit is, after that date, forfeit.
The one thing I would NOT do, is spend either the full price or his deposit on another gun - It's a deposit and until such time as we have completed the deal, it's not my money to spend.
You might do things differently - But that's the way I've done deals previously when purchasing and that's how I'd do any deals in future.FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »The point I'm trying to make is that if all your cash is tied up in sold guns and it's taking months on end to get the cash in for them how do you restock the shelves?
First off: The RFD's cash is probably not tied up in "sold guns" - They have taken deposits on the guns, but they are not sold yet. So they are still classed at that point as stock. Secondly, you're assuming that all RFD's pay their suppliers upfront for these guns. That I very much doubt - Most businesses run a line-of-credit with their suppliers and Retail (and I presume the Gun Trade too) does not work on COD. This may have changed in recent years due to everyone feeling the "credit-crunch", but I'd be surprised if RFD's have paid upfront for all their stock.
The nature of the particular business (i.e. selling firearms in Ireland) will always have a time-lag between agreeing a sale and the completion of the sale, due to the licencing system we have. Any RFD (i.e. businessman) worth his or her salt will (or should) have already factored this into their business's cash-flow projections and will have / should have allowed for the time-lag in a sale-agreed date and a sale-completion date. And RFD's aren't unique in having to deal this "delayed-payment" situation!
And that's also why dealers need to be selling consumables on a regular basis as this brings in the immediate cash.
Now, if some one RFD had a bit of hutzpah out there, they would have set up a financing arrangement for their customers, so they would get paid on time and their customers could spread the load at a slight extra cost. I've never heard of any dealers doing such a thing in the past - and it's not going to happen these days. But maybe when things improve, some smarter dealer might see an opportunity there to help both themselves (and their cashflow) and their customers. But I won't hold my breath.FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »I'm not saying all dealers are perfect actually far from it but they are tied down and a lot of it is down to the license situation at the moment but a % of the customers aren't 100% honest and straight either.
100% agree with you on that one - But the dealers are running a business, the purchaser is not. It's a small %age of the customers who aren't honest and straight (that again is not just an issue unique to the RFD's) - Dealing with shysters and tyre-kickers etc., is all part and parcel of doing business in Ireland. And if you're an RFD you'd best factor that in to your budgets and pricing!
0 -
@ Foxhunter1:rolleyes:
First off, the OP is asking about gun dealers and shops (not about private sales).
But since you asked: "Would you hold the gun for 6 to 12 months until the purchaser gave you the remainder of the cash?"
The answer to that is: Yes, I would. That's how the last couple of lads I bought from dealt with me and that's how I would also do it. I can't see any other fair way of doing it TBH.
What would you do with a Private Sale? The following seems to be the process you'd suggest:
a. Agree the sale of the gun,
b. Collect all of the purchase price (which seems to be what you're implying),
c. You hold onto the gun,
d. The other lad applies for his FAC,
e. You go off and spend "his" money on the purchase of "another gun that you wanted",
d. He doesn't get his licence granted, what then?
You'd hold onto the gun and keep his money (the money you've already spent on another gun?)????
If a lad has put a deposit on a gun and has made all genuine efforts to lodge his FAC application, and keeps me posted on what is going on and stays in contact, my answer is yes, too right I'd hold the gun for him. That's the way I've done my last three firearms purchases - and that's the way the lads selling to me have treated me, so I see no reason why I shouldn't do things in a similar collegiate manner.
In the case of some fellow giving me a deposit and then disappearing off into the ether never to be seen again, I'd simply write to him after a certain time (say after the ostensible three month application period) and ask him when he'll be ready to close the deal and how his application is going.
If after that, I don't hear anything back from him, I'd again write to him (email is very useful!) telling him that if I haven't heard back within a reasonable time, I'll have to presume that, for whatever reasons, he does not want to go through with the deal and his deposit is, after that date, forfeit.
The one thing I would NOT do, is spend either the full price or his deposit on another gun - It's a deposit and until such time as we have completed the deal, it's not my money to spend.
You might do things differently - But that's the way I've done deals previously when purchasing and that's how I'd do any deals in future.
First off: The RFD's cash is probably not tied up in "sold guns" - They have taken deposits on the guns, but they are not sold yet. So they are still classed at that point as stock. Secondly, you're assuming that all RFD's pay their suppliers upfront for these guns. That I very much doubt - Most businesses run a line-of-credit with their suppliers and Retail (and I presume the Gun Trade too) does not work on COD. This may have changed in recent years due to everyone feeling the "credit-crunch", but I'd be surprised if RFD's have paid upfront for all their stock.
The nature of the particular business (i.e. selling firearms in Ireland) will always have a time-lag between agreeing a sale and the completion of the sale, due to the licencing system we have. Any RFD (i.e. businessman) worth his or her salt will (or should) have already factored this into their business's cash-flow projections and will have / should have allowed for the time-lag in a sale-agreed date and a sale-completion date. And RFD's aren't unique in having to deal this "delayed-payment" situation!
And that's also why dealers need to be selling consumables on a regular basis as this brings in the immediate cash.
Now, if some one RFD had a bit of hutzpah out there, they would have set up a financing arrangement for their customers, so they would get paid on time and their customers could spread the load at a slight extra cost. I've never heard of any dealers doing such a thing in the past - and it's not going to happen these days. But maybe when things improve, some smarter dealer might see an opportunity there to help both themselves (and their cashflow) and their customers. But I won't hold my breath.
100% agree with you on that one - But the dealers are running a business, the purchaser is not. It's a small %age of the customers who aren't honest and straight (that again is not just an issue unique to the RFD's) - Dealing with shysters and tyre-kickers etc., is all part and parcel of doing business in Ireland. And if you're an RFD you'd best factor that in to your budgets and pricing!
Jeez you must have plenty of time on yer hands :rolleyes::D:D
All I'm sayin is if you purchase something it should be paid for in an appropriate time frame.
I also don't think that anyone in this country is giving out a Line-Of-Credit that extends to 6 months or more.
I happen to know that most dealers do pay for 85 to 90% of the stock they have on the shelf because most of the stock is imported and UK and other places in the EU don't extend credit to irish dealers as to them Ireland is only a drop in the ocean.
I don't know many people that have been refused licenses other than the ones that have had previous problems with the law so if your buying a gun you should have a fair idea if your eligable to get a license or not and therefore should just pay the damn thing and wait for the license.
If you've had previous problems then maybe consider some other pastime :eek:.0
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