Mayo GP calls for Medical Assessment

fathersymes

Just on RTE news, he is bringing up the motion at the IMO conference to have a full assessment for firearms certificate applications due to the high rate of suicide.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0420/guns.html

Grizzly 45

I think he needs to go away and get himself medically checked out!:mad:
Starting with violation of his hippocratic oath,and being somwhat misinformed about the "high" suicide rates with firearms in Ireland..Compared to where exactly??
We are more likely to OD on DOCTOR prescribed medicines,or throw ourselves in the rivers,or smash ourselves to bits in our cars,or use the clothes line to hang ourselves than shoot ourselves here.
Making noise about a minor problem so he and his overpaid colleuges can pocket more cash more like!:mad::rolleyes:

garv123

I've head of alot of suicides around the county and ALOT around the country and none of them used a gun

rowa

I wonder will he call for similar measures for people buying rope or accessing rivers ? Its the state of the country that has people doing themselves in not access to firearms.

Traumadoc

This would be interesting, as they would need to use a suicide risk score. Otherwise it would be open to legal challenge. These are very easy to fool if you know the correct answers;)
The truth is that it is very difficult to predict suicide risk .


Methinks there is a potential revenue stream to be had.:rolleyes: ( 100,000 x €120)

Longranger

This is the most blatant,bullsh1t excuse I've ever heard from a doctor who is just trying to get a sly way to fleece more money out of us!

Half-cocked

Traumadoc wrote: »

Methinks there is a potential revenue stream to be had.:rolleyes: ( 100,000 x €120)

That hits the nail on the head alright. I wonder has he thought this through properly? What if a GP passes some one as fit to hold a firearm and that some one then shoots himself or some one else? Will the GP be held somehow responsible? Or maybe the GP will play safe and fail all applicants? But get their fee anyway.

Tackleberrywho

The sale of rope,cord and even seat belts should be banned
The sale of round up, cars, petrol and rivers should be banned.

I know of a person who used each one of these to end their days.

I know of a grandmother, that three of her grandchildren under 22 took their own lives.

I can take people to a certain graveyard where any person in it under 30 died by there own hand.

Lets ban young men too...........

While we are at it, ban doctors for charging for counselling

Sparks

Hm. Last I checked (and that was during the Abbylara tribunal), GPs weren't qualified professionally on mental health issues. Nor was getting yourself signed off on as mentally healthy really a possibility becuase it took a month of in-house observation (according to the psychiatric nurse I was asking).

Pardon the pun, but I think that that idea's going to be shot down rather rapidly...

fathersymes

He was just on RTE being interviewed, he's gone a step
Further now. Quote: "It's a motion of public protection"

Sparks

I wonder if anyone will get a statement from the college of general practitioners or the college of psychiatrists...

Tackleberrywho

fathersymes wrote: »

He was just on RTE being interviewed, he's gone a step
Further now. Quote: "It's a motion of public protection"

Public protection?

That's a good one..........

Most who recently topped themselves were as a result of money worries or relationship issues.

And they found the easiest solution at the end of a rope.
I have no statistical data country wide, but I can speak for a large area near my home where Rope was the most common method, after drinking excessively

Who is this doctor?
What is he basing his theories on?
And why are people believing him? (if they are)

Of the 17-20 people I can think of who took their lives recently; none of them were by a gun.........
That's statistical data for you..........

Hibrion

He is a nobody GP. Hopefully the public and at the very least the government will recognise this.

Idiotic comments such as this may actually work in our favour in the long run. It shows general ignorance when it comes to firearms related matters and highlights the victimization of legitimate sportsmen.

mrbrianj

fathersymes wrote: »

Just on RTE news, he is bringing up the motion at the IMO conference to have a full assessment for firearms certificate applications due to the high rate of fees that could be charged.

Fixed!

Glensman

In the 6 counties your GP is contacted when you apply for a licence...
This will only show up a history of depression.
I know a few people who committed suicide- none of them could have been predicted. One was actually with a shotgun; but it makes no difference what the person uses. Killing oneself is very easy, so what's it matter what the person uses to do it...

More important would be a focus on suicide prevention...

vixdname

Below is a link to a newspaper article about suicide in Ireland today.
It obviously doesnt tell you HOW the poor unfortunates done it but rather WHY they done it.
I think it'd be time better spent by doctors and mental health personnel if they concentrated more on giving the vulnerable help when they most need it rather then worrying about what methods the vulnerable may use to try and end their lives.
This is just another prime example of the pure ignorance and lack of knowledge thats out there when it comes to firearm ownership in this country
Just my tuppence worth.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-suicide-rates-leap-during-economic-collapse-88786552.html

dCorbus

Personally, I would have thought the IMO had far better things which they could best be concentrating their time and efforts on!

BTW the Irish Medical Organisation are the representative body for doctors - The Irish Medical Council are the regulatory body for doctors in Ireland. The IMO is a kinda like a "trade-union" for overpaid consultants and GP's AFAIK.

To quote from the RTE article:

Dr Egan said a GP should be involved in a medical assessment as the family doctor would usually be very familiar with a patient's medical history and if there were any risks.

They are (or more correctly, they may be, if requested by the Gardai when they are carrying out the various FAC background checks). Perhaps the good doctor is not aware of his facts?

Since when are the fields of Psychology and Psychiatry within the professional skills-base of a GP?

They are not and GP's are, almost by definition, not professional experts in either of those fields (and if they were per chance, I'd say they'd be working in far more lucrative consulting fields, rather than as a GP). So how a GP can be expected to form any professional psychiatic or psychological opinion on a patient? They can't form a professional opinion on this - only a personal opinion, i.e. one which is of about as much use as my personal opinion on the sanity and mental-stability or otherwise of members of the public.

Plus this giving of professional opinions by a GP would leave them wiiiiiidddde open to any litigious claims IMO!

This "proposal" is nonsense and just some doctor trying to make a name for himself and raise a bit more revenue whilst he's at it.

dos29

What worries me most to be honest, is that this doctor is proclaiming to be of the opinion that removing a suicidal persons access to firearms will stop a person from killing themselves. The fact that THAT is a qualified doctors opinion on it leads me to think that he is either completely incompetent, clueless to the topic, or as has been said, and is more likely, he is simply out for the money, which in my opinion makes him essentially a liar.
I wish everyone with suicidal intentions decided to do it with a gun. By the time they get one through OUR beloved system, there might be a chance they'd have changed their minds.

No6

I have just had to get my GP to fill out medical reports for Life insurance, it took him months to do them and he was being paid by the insurance co's, Nobody will ever get a firearms licence if my doc has to do the reports. If they want to reduce the number of suicides they should look to themselves first and stop prescribing anti depressants etc when someone has a problem and actually try and solve the problem not supress it with medication.

Traumadoc

dCorbus wrote: »

Personally, I would have thought the IMO had far better things which they could best be concentrating their time and efforts on!

BTW the Irish Medical Organisation are the representative body for doctors - The Irish Medical Council are the regulatory body for doctors in Ireland. The IMO is a kinda like a "trade-union" for overpaid consultants and GP's AFAIK.

This "proposal" is nonsense and just some doctor trying to make a name for himself and raise a bit more revenue whilst he's at it.

While I might disagree with you on the remittance paid to consultants, I would agree with you that this is a publicity seeking opportunity, the IMO comes up with these before every conference, like seeking a ban on drinks industry support for the GAA .
( god help anyone who suggests the conference is held in a "dry" venue):o

This proposal is nonsense . On so many levels as has been pointed out.

sonofthegun

the country is f**k up at the moment its no wonder lads are commiting suicide with the pressure people are under i know of 3 lads from around here who have committed suicide and all 3 had access to a firearm but not one used their firearm to commit to suicide.
depression is a weird one as you could pass every test known to man today and still go out and kill yourself tomorrow ive seen first hand how quickly depression can sneak up on a person

Double Barrel

fathersymes wrote: »

Originally Posted by fathersymes
Just on RTE news, he is bringing up the motion at the IMO conference to have a full assessment for firearms certificate applications due to the high rate of fees that could be charged.
Fixed!

Thanks Fathersymes.
~~~~~~~

"[T]here are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know."

Former ( thank the heavens), US SofD ... Rumsfeld
~~~~~~~~~~~~

This @#$%^&* has a license to practice?
Smoke and Mirrors.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave. When we first practice to deceive."

Come lay on my couch and tell me your innermost thoughts.

rmnrgn

I see from the RTE today that the Irish Medical Organisation (IMO) is calling on the Dept. of Justice to cease issuing gun licences until medical checks are agreed and clarified with the IMO.
I know that a lot of tormented souls have reached for a firearm to end their lives but am I being too cynical when I think that the IMO has a vested interest in an extra hundred thousand patients seeking a medical clearance certificate? I don't suspect that they might offer this check up free gratis?
I don't have a GP, thanks be to God, and my health is good. I can't see why I would need to make an appointment to see a GP who doesn't know me to tell him that I'm of sound mind and body so that I can get a licence. Whats stopping me from with holding information or lying? Who is to say that my mental health won't change at some stage in the future? A mental health exam can only be an assessment of the patient at one moment in time, who knows what the future may bring.
For my tuppence worth, my licences allow me to pursue a sport which is theraputic and beneficial to my health, it helps me to relax and unwind and to get away from the stresses of everyday life. Seeking a gun licence shouldn't be seen in a negative light.
Anybody with any thoughts on this?

johngalway

A GP isn't qualified to assess someones mental health, IMO.

Anyone here think that assessment would be free?

No, I thought not.

Disgusting money making exercise.

pugw

+1 on the above, im a bit cynical when it comes to the IMO aswel tbh as their "concerns" are all too often regarding some issue that would also boost gp revenues! I wouldnt be suprised to see them introduce a re-evaluation system whereby you have to be evaluated every 3 years when re-applying for a license!

alex73

Well as someone who had a parent shot by a mad man with a licence shot gun I think its about time!! 100% people who want a gun need to be assessed.

Traumadoc

I am sorry that this happened to your parent, but I wonder did the person have a mental illness, or were they intemperate?

Most of the situations were there are shootings of civilians by civilians these are carried out by people who do not have mental illness.

johngalway

alex73 wrote: »

Well as someone who had a parent shot by a mad man with a licence shot gun I think its about time!! 100% people who want a gun need to be assessed.

Echo TD's condolences about your parent.

However, it could be argued that anyone wishing to own a car, a sharp knife, chainsaw ,a baseball bat, bow & arrow, etc would also need evaluation.

vixdname

alex73 wrote: »

Well as someone who had a parent shot by a mad man with a licence shot gun I think its about time!! 100% people who want a gun need to be assessed.

I'm sorry to read about what happened to your parent, but by that train of thought do you think everyone who buys a new car should be mentally assessed also in case they go mad and attempt to run someone over ?

As crazy as it seems it has happened.

What if someone wants to buy a new set of kitchen knives, should they also be assessed in case they decide to carve someone up at some point ?

As crazy as this seems, this has also happened.

There is a stigma attached to firearm ownership in general which is generated by public ignorance and media misinformation.
You cannot go down the path and alienate lads whose passion is shooting, whether it be hunting or target shooting and insist that they all must be mentally assessed in future if they want to continue on enjoying their beloved sport.
Again, I'm sorry to hear about what happened to you personally but be under no illusion, this is simply a money making idea by a GP that wants to make a name for himself.

Grizzly 45

Anyone in our respective shooting bodies care to comment to "the mejia" about Doctor Wacky 's mad ideas to coin in on a group again??:rolleyes:

fathersymes

The manner and language Dr. Egan was using earlier is typical of the public fear and negative perception of guns created by the media and the lack of discernment between sporting firearms and anti personnel weapons.

Dr. Egan even talked about the use of firearms by criminal gangs in his misguided pontifications, he is I would think anti gun and (financially motivated, google him!)

Indeed, GP's are not qualified to assess a persons mental state, but a psychiatrist is. GP gets a little fee, refers you to a psychiatrist who gets a big fee.

This will not come of much, but it shows how fear, political correctness and the anthropomorphising of animals is a constant threat to our sport.