Mayo GP calls for Medical Assessment

Grizzly 45

Hmmm wonder is he a follower of the Dr Wintermute school of pseudo scientific study from the New England Journal of Medicine on gun deaths??The NEJM was supporting all sorts of anti gun crack pot doctors in the 1990s,and was proven wrong again again and again.

This sounds like the sort of rubbish they were espousing back in the 1990s and Doc Egan is now belching forth.
Wonder how many of his fellow physicans who shoot will feel about going off to consult their colleuges to see are they fit to own a firearm???

Personally I'd rather he was asking politicans and Govt ministers to have them checked for being clear of not having a few screws loose,as they have done more damage with a ministerial pen over the last decade than any nutter with a gun.:(
BTW expect now of course a bunch of letters supporting this enlightned move,from the usual Anti suspects!!

Bananaman

I wonder is he proposing that the same apply to all members of the defence forces, gardai, vets, etc.

What about anyone having access to prescription pharmaceuticals - doctors, nurses, chemists, students. ..... Where would it end?

Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me -usually when you see sensationalist stuff like this it is the shiny bauble in a sleight of hand trick and designed to prevent you seeing the elephant being wheeled on stage left. Either the IMO are in trouble or firearms license holders are about to be ......... I could be wrong

B'Man

Traumadoc

You could be right... IMO are in financial trouble , junior docs who are leaving in droves are not willing or able to pay the 1000 euro yearly membership fees that are no longer tax deductible.

Mauser 308

Guys with the new licence applications last year we had to give the name and address and tel number of our GP. And so it begins....

vixdname

Have a look at this link, I wonder is this where the good doctor got his idea from and is now jumping on the band wagon:

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=2010-08608-003

Also, check out the below link for a copy of the IMOs agenda for this up and coming AGM.
Session 1 Motion 5 is related to the above mentioned gun license issue and then they have the cheek to have at Session 3, Motion 51 regarding "Patient Confidentiality".
Is it just me or is there a conflict of interest going on here is some shape or form ?

http://www.imo.ie/Documents/IMO%20AGM%20Motions%202011.pdf

sfakiaman

Actual facts and figures from the National Orgnisation for Suicide Prevention here http://www.nosp.ie/annual_report_09_2.pdf . Pages 27 & 28 are interesting.

From page 28. The use of firearms is rare accounting for 5% of all deaths by suicide. However, it is more
common among males than females, and more commonly used by older men (10% of 65+
years) and younger women (5% of 15-24 yr olds).

Tackleberrywho

So if you look intelligently at the data.


Points of note:
• Hanging is the most common method of suicide in Ireland accounting for three out of every five
suicide deaths. It is more common among males (64%) than females (43%).
• Hanging is more commonly used by those in younger age groups. The opposite is true of
drowning, which is more common within the older age groups.
• The pattern in the general population is reflected in male population, whereby hanging is the
most common method, followed by drowning.
• For females, suicide by drowning is the most common method for older women.
• The use of firearms is rare accounting for 5% of all deaths by suicide. However, it is more
common among males than females, and more commonly used by older men (10% of 65+
years) and younger women (5% of 15-24 yr olds).
• Causes in the category ‘other’ include self-cutting and jumping from a high place




So my earlier point................Ban Rope...........

medicman

watch out lads, next it will be dentist's saying they should be contacted also when applying for a licence.

p.s. see my handle? not a doc!!!!!

Sparks

medicman wrote: »

watch out lads, next it will be dentist's saying they should be contacted also when applying for a licence.

Originally, they were proposed for that, back in 2005...
(never made it into the final Act, thankfully)

medicman

Sparks wrote: »

Originally, they were proposed for that, back in 2005...
(never made it into the final Act, thankfully)

Everyone will want in on the action next :mad:

tinofapples

Horsesh!t ........ i sat through the inquest of my father in laws suicide last Sept and of the other 5 cases heard that day (Ours was the last one heard) none of them involved a firearm. 0/5.

A method will always exist.

vixdname

A copy of a mail I sent to the IMO earlier, wonder will I get a reply ?:D


To whom it may concern,
I am contacting you via this email in regards to the item in your forthcoming AGM in regards to your members wishing to call on the Department Of Justice And Law Reform to cease issuing firearm licenses until a proper health assessment of each individual wishing to have one has been carried out.

This is the strangest proposal I've seen in quite a while by any group especially one where those making the proposals are quite obviously not very knowledgeable in both fields that they are trying to cover in this proposal i.e. Suicide & Firearm Ownership In This Country

On the subject of firearms being used prevalently as a method of committing suicide in Ireland, recent publications released by the HSE show that in a study of all suicides in Ireland between 2003 and 2007 and taking into account the methods used by the individuals to carry it out i.e. "Poisoning", "Hanging", "Drowning", "Firearm" & lastly "Other" (as in jumping from a high place), that Hanging accounted for a whopping 61% of all suicides male or female followed by Drowning at 16% then followed by Poisoning at 12% and finally by the use of a Firearm which only accounted for "5%".

I find it very strange then indeed to hear the good Drs. Richard Tobin & Ken Egan coming up with their proposal about firearm licenses not being issued in case the individual may harm themselves with it
If the Doctors above are concerned about the "Methods" which are used to commit suicide in Ireland today, then according to the above statistics from the HSE, they should propose that any individual wishing to purchase a length of rope in any hardware store in the republic should firstly get the all clear on a mental health assessment by a suitably qualified person - which I hasten to add GPs in general are NOT suitably qualified to determine any individuals mental health where as a practising psychiatrist IS.
Perhaps anyone wanting to walk near a river or purchase a box of Paracetamol should also be mentally assessed also in case they intend drowning themselves or overdosing themselves.
As daft as the above may seem, the percentage of suicides carried out in Ireland using those methods far out weigh the percentage of times suicide is carried out using a firearm.

It seems that through public misinformation (and when I say public I also mean GPs as they are the "Public" too) and media disinformation, firearm ownership as a sport whether it be target shooting or hunting, is a taboo subject which is all too easy to be picked upon by individuals that wish to get a name for themselves (as certain politicians have done in the not too distant past now being closely followed by a couple of Doctors) and as a means of perhaps down the road, generating more income for themselves by carrying out "Mental Health Assessments".

I'm not expecting to get any reply from yourselves but a copy of this mail will be sent to all national papers if I dont.
I would also like it if this mail was passed on the the two Drs. concerned with the proposal above.

medicman

nice email vix, I cannot of course talk about my job or what i see on a daily basis, however, in respect of firearms and the intent to harm oneself with them, there is as the data tackle's posted, which i must say is very very accurate. OD + Hanging are the most common form of self harm, and I Sympathise with all those who suffer with the grief every day, Doctors should not be promoting their own self of worth on national television bringing up painfull memories to those families who have been thru enough.


Tinoapples, I have been to too many of these inquests and I am sorry to hear of your grief, they are not a nice place to be or be in, I hope you and your family and everyone who has been there the best and hate to see this brought out by comments, said by doctors who should have no say in this matter.

Odysseus

I wonder what GPs in general think about this, I know a few who shoot and they do not agree with the current system. However, I remember asking a GP I work with would he mind being a referee on my last application; he refused as he did not believe in gun ownership. I have not problems with that he is entitled to his opinion, but chatting to him about the current system he said he would not be writing anything for any of his patients.

This attitude would concern me, what happens if we went ahead with that and your GP happened to be any gun? We loose about 2-3 clients through suicide most years, I have never had a case where a firearm was involved. It would seem to me that a core element of this would revolve around the fees involved.

Grizzly 45

Apprently nowadays in our instant comms age,if you want to get your point across with more force and intrest.You pen an OPEN LETTER to the organisation and the newspapers of choice.[If anyone reads their papers and the letters pages,you will see what I mean over the last year they are increasing dramatically.]
Apprently it is taken more seriously,as there is a whole bunch of signatures of people with their name and titles and addresses of the same opinion and mindset.Which makes it more likely to be published.

It hasnt come in by electronic media,rather by snail mail on old fashioned paper and ink which suggests a joint effort by all involved to air their greivances,which also suggests some thought went into this,rather than just a quickly fired off rant by one individual.

So maybe ,if we took Vixs letter,and it was signed by all who agree with the sentiments,and mail it to the revelant doctors and medical council as well as the press.We might get a better hearing or be taken at least somwhat more seriously than just individual letters??
Worth a try??:)

rowa

Its the new irish way to make money , hop on a safety issue and look to make fees from it , its exactly what gay byrne has done with road safety , bringing in all sorts of charges for learner drivers and if anyone questions it simply spout public safety and no one can argue with it without being seen as reckless.

Traumadoc

Well the other way to stop this is to insist that all assessments are carried out by psychiatrists,
Divide et impera

bazza888

then we we will have to pay them instead dont give them ideas

Sparks

Or just insist that it's correct and all firearms users should have to be assessed.
Including the Army, since they've had suicides.
Including the Gardai, since they've had suicides.
And since some GPs have firearms, obviously the GPs doing evaluations would have to be evaluated to a higher standard - a month under observation in a psychiatric ward should do the trick.
I wonder how long the idea would last under those conditions?

bazza888

who asseses the gps to make sure there not suicidle?its crazy its such a blatant way to try increase there ways of making money its unreal,if someone wants to kill themselfs,they will no matter if you hide all the ropes guns or drugs in the country

Traumadoc

Well if you assume 100 psychiatrists having to do 100, 000 assessments- unworkable

Sparks

Closer to 200,000 and that's only the civilians; the Army and the Gardai need assessment too.


You know, I'd nearly go along with it, just to see the Garda Commissioner put into a psychiatric ward for observation for a month by a qualified psychiatrist...

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Or just insist that it's correct and all firearms users should have to be assessed.
Including the Army, since they've had suicides.
Including the Gardai, since they've had suicides.
And since some GPs have firearms, obviously the GPs doing evaluations would have to be evaluated to a higher standard - a month under observation in a psychiatric ward should do the trick.
I wonder how long the idea would last under those conditions?

Come on!!!!Dont you know by now the elites always exempt themselves from the rules that apply to us commoners ???:D:rolleyes:
It is the nature of the entire political system of Ireland.Do as we say ,not as we do,and dont dare question it and know your place...peasent!:rolleyes:

Sure once you join the Gaurds,Army or Govt...Dont you know you are imbued with super powers that makes you immune to everyday illnesses and problems.You can leap buildings with a single bound...etc..So of course you wont do anything stupid with a firearm,our your authorithy or the ministerial pen..After all now you are bigger than God!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Spunk84

Complete money making scheme! Next we will have to bring the dog to the pet psychologist to see if the dog has permanent long lasting feelings about the pheasant he caught last week:D maybe the dog will have to go threw therapy on the off season:eek: to see if he or she is depressed and see can they get over their owners continued demands on them, since they were puppies LOL and loss of their mothers when they where very young:rolleyes: