How much will PS pay be cut by ?

ShowMeTheCash

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

If you follow your logic -then why are not all multi nationals based here because our rate has to be close to the bottom. Dont get me wrong-its obviously attractive but it has a price-the price being we pay more tax to allow the Independent newsgroup pay an effective tax rate below 10% We need a real debate -one they hardly want to see but they as stated must be delighted at the ground hog day repeat of threads attacking the public sector and little against their interests.

As for the regulator-he is not solely to blame for the banks. The banks themselves were allowed by law to lend recklessly without security. The failure to pass such laws against reckless lending-lending that results in the stare pissing twenty billion into Anglo shows that the elite write the laws. Corruption. Amazing how many anti public sector threads but hoiw many on the pissing of twenty billion on Anglo?? AIB?? BOI?
If that's not corruption-the failure to have laws in place to make sure when bank crashes happen-we all suffer(chief executives developers auctioneers) -if that not corruption I Dont know what is. Bank directors and all are laughing at you and these threads.

Look I understand that banks have gotten away with murder here, during the boom any regulation was met with "you are getting in the way of progress" but this is where we needed strong leadership in Government... We did not have it. Our politicians sold us down the river... You think I want to point the finger at the PS, I can accept that the banks who basically where in bed with the politicians and developers caused the hype around the property boom, but Government and regulators basically bought into the same bullsh1t as everyone else there was pockets to be lined and money to be made short term.

As for corporation tax... I remember listening to the radio and I forget who it was now but they where talking about Intel and the reason they came to Ireland. Intel employs over 5000 and it Intel's biggest site outside the USA... (I used to work there)

He basically listed 10 reasons back in the early 90s to why US giants like Intel Microsoft would come to Ireland - High standard of education, politically stable, English speaking, low corporation tax, lower labour costs among a few others.

We went on to say now in 2011 the only reason left among the original list is low corporation tax.

Our labour costs have ballooned, education had a two fold impact 1. People doing less of what he called engineering type degrees and 2. The rest of the world India / China have simply gotten better over the last 20 years now surpassing us. Country now is in a state...

Here is a link where US tech firms warn about the corporation tax

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2010/11/22/ireland_bail_tech/

We could test this bluff... But large corporation are ruthless, they think they can do it cheaper somewhere else they will go!

Sleepy

eigrod wrote: »

Fair enough. I would be reasonably confident that Public posts that are filled through advertising in the national media and on publicjobs are merit based.

Don't be so sure they're open to all applicants though... I've personally been told "well, we'll have to put it up on publicjobs.ie but that's just a formality" about a job I was offered. Granted, I'd be fully qualified for the role, and think I would have done a good job at it, but it should still have been open to competition.

Gambl

Sleepy wrote: »

Personally, I'd see the mess as having being created by a lack of regulation, incompetent (or corrupt) governance, the Irish hysteria for property ownership, faulty remuneration systems in the higer echelons of the private sector (I'd link all director level salaries to 10 year share options forcing long-term rather than short-term strategies) and the socialisation of private losses.

Those factors may have created bubble-friendly conditions but it was the addition of artificially and inappropriately low interest rates that created a monumental bubble. The bursting of that bubble led to some extremely difficult economic challenges that have so far been responded to by politicians in a manner that redefines ineptitude. Public and private sector salaries and employment levels will have to be decimated as a result, simply because of the reduced amount of capital available in both sectors to pay the wages - people might try and dress this in political terms or present it as a conscious decision to reform this or that service or business but while the impulses that lie behind the decision making process might sadly be driven by human nature (e.g. politicians playing to the gallery of jealousy about perceived benefit levels in various public sector jobs) the fact of the matter is that thse decisions and these cuts have to be made anyway because of the reduction in available funding in both public and private sectors. Public and private cash flows have shrunk massively - the discussion in each case probably ought to start from how to allocate these shrunken pieces of pie rather than about entitlements or about setting the public sector up against private sector, tempting as that may be to do.....

ShowMeTheCash

Gambl wrote: »

Those factors may have created bubble-friendly conditions but it was the addition of artificially and inappropriately low interest rates that created a monumental bubble. The bursting of that bubble led to some extremely difficult economic challenges that have so far been responded to by politicians in a manner that redefines ineptitude. Public and private sector salaries and employment levels will have to be decimated as a result, simply because of the reduced amount of capital available in both sectors to pay the wages - people might try and dress this in political terms or present it as a conscious decision to reform this or that service or business but while the impulses that lie behind the decision making process might sadly be driven by human nature (e.g. politicians playing to the gallery of jealousy about perceived benefit levels in various public sector jobs) the fact of the matter is that thse decisions and these cuts have to be made anyway because of the reduction in available funding in both public and private sectors. Public and private cash flows have shrunk massively - the discussion in each case probably ought to start from how to allocate these shrunken pieces of pie rather than about entitlements or about setting the public sector up against private sector, tempting as that may be to do.....

I am in agreement that politicians may try and play down the currently climate and the public and private sector are undoubtably going to see more cuts / closures etc...

However things get complicated when we try and as you say to allocate the shrunken pieces of pie.

The pubic and private sector are two very different animals.

The private sector for the most part (excluding banks) tend to adjust a whole lot faster. Companies close, have massive lay-off's cut costs to survive. Not too many business can hemorrhage for too long.
But the private sector in some areas also need to be competitive in a global sense or even with the UK being NI is just up the road.

I think we will see the private sector adjusting to be more compensative with the UK.

Gambl

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I am in agreement that politicians may try and play down the currently climate and the public and private sector are undoubtably going to see more cuts / closures etc...

However things get complicated when we try and as you say to allocate the shrunken pieces of pie.

The pubic and private sector are two very different animals.

The private sector for the most part (excluding banks) tend to adjust a whole lot faster. Companies close, have massive lay-off's cut costs to survive. Not too many business can hemorrhage for too long.
But the private sector in some areas also need to be competitive in a global sense or even with the UK being NI is just up the road.

I think we will see the private sector adjusting to be more compensative with the UK.

To some extent but the United Kingdom of Austerity and Budget Cuts is not likely to recover for a very long time - as a market it will shrink and its own domestic input costs will have to be cut. So Ireland's and everyone else's competitiveness needs to be much sharper and much more flexible - it has to sell globally at competitive rates - that's the rub
The cuts will come quicker in the private sector but public is tied to that by an invisible rope...

Godge

Sleepy wrote: »

I have friends and acquantinces who've gotten jobs in particular schools, councils, publicly owned transport companies etc. because family members "put in a word for them".

In fairness, it's hardly uncommon in the Private Sector, particularly in the legal profession but I think most (all?) of us would agree that public appointments *should* be made on the basis of the best candidate.

I find this hard to believe.

For a start, nepotism is endemic in the private sector. The vast majority of the private sector consists of small businesses. Whether it is a small shop that needs some part-time staff, a larger retail store that needs some summer relief, a small solicitor/accountant/doctor/dentist's practice that needs a secretary, a tradesman who needs extra help, these posts are invariably filled by someone in the know, most often a family member, friend or someone close to one of those.

In the public sector, any post filled through the Public Appointments Service is above reproach. Obviously, those in the public service will spot ads, hear about competitions and tell their friends/relations to apply, but that is a long way from being a corrupt process. There is still a process of exams and interviews to go through which cannot be fixed. Just knowing about a job is therefore of little help.

You may have a point about posts filled outside of the PAS, e.g. a post in a small rural school. In those cases, there may well be nepotism, but that reflects the way small business and society operates in Ireland as I show above and is not a particular reflection of the public service.

I doubt that you or anyone else could produce any hard evidence of a post through the PAS being filled by nepotism or favouritism.

maryk123

google"nepotism hse" and see the results - this happened last year