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What age were you when you realised God didn't exist

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    #362
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Sandwlch wrote: »
    You may understand it as you wish. But to engage in sane discussion you kinda need to understand it as the rest of the world does:

    prog·ress (prgrs, -rs, prgrs) n.
    1. Movement, as toward a goal; advance.
    2. Development or growth: students who show progress.
    3. Steady improvement, as of a society or civilization: a believer in human progress. See Synonyms at development.
    4. A ceremonial journey made by a sovereign through his or her realm.

    Movement, as toward a goal - Exactly what I was arguing a few minutes ago. Progress presupposes a goal. What is the goal?

    Development or growth - What is the standard of development or growth?

    Steady improvement? - How do we determine what improves upon what is already present?

    What makes you think that most people in the world understand progress as you do?


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    #363
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    opinion guy wrote: »
    You need to examine them some more. Several months is nothing for this stuff. For what its worth I don't think you are even aware of many of your assumptions.

    This is tripe. I see no reason for you to say this other than that my beliefs are in disagreement with yours :pac:

    Let's deal with what's obvious. You think I should examine my Christianity because you believe it is false, I believe that you should examine your atheism because it is false at least as I would see it, not only this because your decision may well have consequences that will determine your eternal destiny.

    We know what we already think about each others views. To have a viable and a remotely interesting discussion we need to simply acknowledge these assumptions and move forward.


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    #364
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Jakkass wrote: »
    This is tripe. I see no reason for you to say this other than that my beliefs are in disagreement with yours :pac:

    Let's deal with what's obvious. You think I should examine my Christianity because you believe it is false, I believe that you should examine your atheism because it is false at least as I would see it, not only this because your decision may well have consequences that will determine your eternal destiny.

    We know what we already think about each others views. To have a viable and a remotely interesting discussion we need to simply acknowledge these assumptions and move forward.

    Did I say I was an atheist ? Again another assumption.


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    #365
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Did I say I was an atheist ? Again another assumption.

    In that post I didn't mention atheism. I merely said that your beliefs clearly disagree with mine. I'm happy to tolerate that personally. We can both continue our lives with the understanding that we think that the other is mistaken?


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    #366
    Mark200
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Jakkass wrote: »
    In that post I didn't mention atheism. I merely said that your beliefs clearly disagree with mine. I'm happy to tolerate that personally. We can both continue our lives with the understanding that we think that the other is mistaken?

    "your atheism" isn't mentioning atheism?


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    #367
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mark200 wrote: »
    "your atheism" isn't mentioning atheism?


    His tactic of debate has degraded down to ignoring the most valid points that contradict his beliefs and pick on smaller insignificant comments.


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    #368
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Mark200 wrote: »
    "your atheism" isn't mentioning atheism?

    My bad, I concede this one :) Apologies opinion guy.


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    #369
    Birroc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Birroc


    123balltv wrote: »
    I hate the church in Ireland I can go to any Catholic church in Spain,Italy, France etc now they're all Catholic Countries but their churches are so different not as stuffy as our's

    The catholic church in every country is the same. They care about one thing: money. If they can do good in a country while making money, they will but the primary focus is profit.


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    #370
    Lorrrrraine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 330 ✭✭Lorrrrraine


    I was very young, about six maybe. I never let on until I was eleven or so though.


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    #371
    RussellTuring
    Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭RussellTuring


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Let me ask you another question: What is the ultimate goal for humanity? This question will make you think about what progress is. I personally believe the ultimate goal of mankind is to treat ones neighbour as beyond onesself, to strive to know more about Creation and to apply this knowledge to it, and to enter into a meaningful relationship with the Creator. So yes if nations truly believed in these things, and if nations committed themselves to all these things then this would produce the best nation / civilisation that has been ever known to man. The only problem is that I don't believe that this will be achieved on earth, but yet we must strive towards a better society. That's the challenge for us.

    I don't see any reason to believe there is any particular ultimate goal. The future is whatever we decide it will be.


    This only presumes that we don't deserve to be punished for disobeying God. Once that piece is in the puzzle things start to look a little different. Personally I recognise that I actually deserve to go to hell, but God has forgiven me and I am thankful for this and for His continued providence in my life.

    I don't deserve to be punished eternally for anything I may do during the course of my relatively short life.


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    #372
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    RussellTuring wrote: »
    I don't see any reason to believe there is any particular ultimate goal. The future is whatever we decide it will be.

    This presupposes the idea that humans can actually determine what the future is. There are many factors that humans have absolutely no control over. Dare I say that the ability of mankind to impose a stamp on the future is severely limited.
    RussellTuring wrote: »
    I don't deserve to be punished eternally for anything I may do during the course of my relatively short life.

    Of course, this point follows from the first. If you don't believe that there is an ultimate purpose given to us by God to fulfill you will obviously not believe that God has the right to punish people for not living as He has decreed in His world. It is a recognition that this world isn't ours and that we are only here for a time that changes a lot I suspect.


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    #373
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    Birroc wrote: »
    The catholic church in every country is the same. They care about one thing: money. If they can do good in a country while making money, they will but theprimary focus is profit.

    I thought it was all about pedophilia?


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    #374
    Mark200
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    the groutch wrote: »
    I thought it was all about pedophilia?
    No that's just want they do during their lunch breaks


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    #375
    doomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭doomed


    Lets not turn atheism into another form of religion.


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    #376
    landsleaving
    Registered Users Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    doomed wrote: »
    Lets not turn atheism into another form of religion.

    HEATHEN!


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    #377
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Seriously? No really, are you 14, maybe 15? That's precisely the kind of logic found in mid adolescence. It really is. Banal teenage rebellion 101.

    You haven't actually addressed the argument. People assume things all the time that aren't provable and that may differ from other people's opinions. To be offended by an assumption is just ridiculous.

    I'd actually argue that offence of any kind is a mild form of insanity.


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    #378
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Jakkass wrote: »
    My bad, I concede this one :) Apologies opinion guy.

    No worries. Lol - see what I mean about the assumptions ?:D

    doomed wrote: »
    Lets not turn atheism into another form of religion.

    Too late. Dawkins done that already


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    #379
    coffee_cake
    Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    You haven't actually addressed the argument. People assume things all the time that aren't provable and that may differ from other people's opinions. To be offended by an assumption is just ridiculous.

    I'd actually argue that offence of any kind is a mild form of insanity.

    You're a mild form of insanity


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    #380
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    What god are you referring to op? I stopped believing doctrine a long time ago but I remain open to the idea of a higher power of some sort.


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    #381
    RussellTuring
    Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭RussellTuring


    Jakkass wrote: »
    This presupposes the idea that humans can actually determine what the future is. There are many factors that humans have absolutely no control over. Dare I say that the ability of mankind to impose a stamp on the future is severely limited.

    Indeed we could be hit by an asteroid a witness another mass extinction event but there is a difference between accepting that some things are beyond our control and accepting an ultimate goal for our species. In the first case, we are accepting that we don't know what could happen; in the second, we are accepting that only one thing can.



    Of course, this point follows from the first. If you don't believe that there is an ultimate purpose given to us by God to fulfill you will obviously not believe that God has the right to punish people for not living as He has decreed in His world. It is a recognition that this world isn't ours and that we are only here for a time that changes a lot I suspect.

    First of all, I don't believe that accepting that God has a plan for us means accepting any punishment he sees fit to carry out. I may have the ability to punish my children by spanking them but this doesn't mean that I have to.

    Secondly, it is not just the punishment that's the problem: it's the cruelty of it. I can't accept the notion that anything I do in my short life can be bad enough to deserve being paid back with infinite interest, for an infinite period of time.


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    #382
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    k_mac wrote: »
    What god are you referring to op? I stopped believing doctrine a long time ago but I remain open to the idea of a higher power of some sort.

    Whichever one you believed in.


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    #383
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    I'd actually argue that offence of any kind is a mild form of insanity.

    Go for it, i need a good laugh.


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    #384
    keanooo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭keanooo


    To all you atheists out there.... QED.




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    #385
    Shiroki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Shiroki


    For me there was never a moment where it dawned on me. I just always dismissed it as fairytales.


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    #386
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    I was about 15 or 16, I was debating with someone about why belief is rational and went online to read essays for and against belief. The against essays were far more convincing and the more I looked into I started agreeing with the arguments. It all happened within an hour or two I'd say.


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    #387
    FISMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭FISMA


    Pardon me if I do believe that God does exist.

    Judging just how wrong ye got the existence of the Celtic Tiger, it is not surprising that ye'd get God wrong too.
    :eek:



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    #388
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    About 11-12ish. I always had my doubts though. I respect the right of others to believe though, unlike some Atheists.


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    #389
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    FISMA wrote: »
    Pardon me if I do believe that God does exist.

    Judging just how wrong ye got the existence of the Celtic Tiger, it is not surprising that ye'd get God wrong too.
    :eek:



    I notice you've put pretty much the exact same comment on two separate threads about God on this forum. The Celtic Tiger and the concept of God are not really comparable..


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    #390
    FISMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭FISMA


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    I notice you've put pretty much the exact same comment on two separate threads about God on this forum. The Celtic Tiger and the concept of God are not really comparable..

    I am questioning the wisdom of people that sell land and homes to each other with cheap money granted from abroad and believe that there is something inherent in value going on which is sustainable over generations.

    If banking and finances were gotten so wrong, what hope have you in analyzing the supernatural?


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    #391
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    FISMA wrote: »
    If banking and finances were gotten so wrong, what hope have you in analyzing the supernatural?
    There are so many things wrong with this I might just poo myself.


This discussion has been closed.
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