What age were you when you realised God didn't exist

CiaranMT

Duggy747 wrote: »

Atheism is a disbelief, not a faith.

Ninja edit :P

turbojunkie

http://www.maniacworld.com/Dawkins-vs-religion-battle-2478.html

Duggy747

CiaranMT wrote: »

Ninja edit :P

I'm brutal for typing up the opposite of what I mean, I don't read it fully until I've posted it

Wasn't a great ninja edit either, realised nearly 5 minutes later :pac:

Wibbs

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Evidence - yes. We are it. Life can develop on planets - we have an example - 'The Earth'.

Correction, life can develop on the earth. That's the extent of the evidence. Now is there just one thing "special" about the earth or are there many? Would life need a large moon/plate tectonics/periodic catastrophy/magnetic core/precise mineral makeup/any number of variables? We can't answer those questions yet(though we're doing well). If the range of Goldilocks parameters is very large, the likelihood of other "earths" diminishes with each addition to the pile. Now the usual get out of gaol free card for this is "but it's effin huge Ted, bound to be more". Maybe, maybe not. Even in the infinite the possibility exists of the unique. You, me everyone reading this proves this in a way. Humans are common as muck consciousness is very common but in this impossibly vast universe in a small but significant way, You are unique. The "ghost in the machine"* looking out is the only one that exists. And has or will ever exist.

If we could detect gods they would cease to be gods - they would become detectable entities and have to conform to scientific parameters of what is real.

Agreed or at least real in this universe yes. Bit of a gedankenexperiment... Imagine humans survive and become advanced as advanced it is possible to be and we develop the ability to create baby universe singularities. And we do just that. Create a new universe. Maybe as a place to escape the heat death of our own or whatever. If life kicks off in the new universe and becomes technology intelligent they might be able to detect our influence. We would be essentially "gods" in that we would be the motive force of their universe supernatural to their universe. Theirr universe may because of our tweaking have different laws and because of that a different science.

Also, define 'intelligent'

A lifeforms ability to have and understand a sense of self and the ability to change it's own evolutionary destiny through application of mind and technology springing from that mind. That would be my definition. No other animal but man demonstrates this.

It has yet to be proven that 'intelligence' adds to survivability.

Agreed. Bacteria are infinitely more adaptable and tough than intelligent apes.

Great 'intelligent' civilisations in our own past have come and gone - why not 'out there' too.

True, but in the fall of civilisations you're confusing the outcome of the acts with the outcome of the play. "Rome fell, so that's it then" Except here we are. One could argue that if for example Rome never fell that we would be swanning around on Mars drinking Manhattans, but as life seems to redouble it's evolutionary efforts after mass extinctions, maybe civilisations are similar? That if they stay around too long they become stagnant. That progress is a lurching violent thing played out over time.


*not in any spooky psychic supernatural sense.

whiteboy

How audacious of op to assume we all don't believe in God

DarkJager

whiteboy wrote: »

How audacious of op to assume we all don't believe in God

Not at all - not everyone believes in god.

starlit

I'm 50/50 about that. I still believe that God exists but don't believe everything about the Catholic faith/beliefs. I believed Jesus, the holy mary existed but the story behind them could be all flawed it could be true or not true or only partially true or a cover up for the real Jesus who could have been a woman...or that the holy mary wasn't the holy mary and just mary....i'm very doubtful of the whole catholic religion, i'm making it sound more complicated now. I suppose its in recent years from ages 18-25 have I realised that I am starting to loose faith and interest in religion though...thats all nothing to do with not believing in God. To me God is seperate from religion... whether he exists or not thats' everyone's choice and opinion on that, everyone is different.

Scuid Mhór

I think I was around twelve when I started describing myself as agnostic.

Latchy

whiteboy wrote: »

How audacious of op to assume we all don't believe in God

Presumptuous in that he didn't put a poll up with 'I still believe in God ' option .

HeadPig

Wibbs wrote: »

No proof is required? This is teenage/newage "ohmigodI'mhavinganovelthought!" stuff. Nope you're not. You're really not. This stage usually comes after or alongside the "amItheonlyonethatexistsandalllifeisillusary" notion. Whatever about a personal deity(and whatever floats your boat there) a creator deity or motive "intelligent" force that created the universe is still somewhat up for grabs. It certainly can't be disproven. There are a number of questions we're still asking and some of the current answers are... well out there, some IMHO hooey(tm) masquerading as science. Dark matter/energy for a start. A major fudge to make the existing theories figures fit. If the figures don't fit the equation rather than invent an invisible factor to balance the books, step back and revisit the equation. Think outside the box a bit. If you have ten apples in one hand and 5 in the other, it doesnt just tell you you have 15 apples, it also tells you you got huge fcuking hands. String theory? Nice enough, but unprovable and not a little weird in places(not always a bad thing). Hawkings recent stuff about the time "before" the universe fudges things and explains eff all just puts the creation bit back. Again. "Oh it didn't need any motive external force, just the laws of physics and gravity" yea brilliant that Ted. And where pray tell did they both come from?

Annnnyhoo. :D A creator force of some nature is likely to exist. It may be internal and "natural" to this universe or it could be external and "supernatural". That external may be a blind watchmaker fumbling in the dark or it just might be conscious and directed in building the cogs of our reality. The latter would to all intents and purposes be "God".

You don't have a very good grasp of physics.

mrsbyrne

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

See ya later, come back when you can handle my quaintness.

scanlas i dont think the posters on this thread appreciate your obvious superiority and many related talents. wot you should do is get down on your knees and thank God that you dont have to mix with these cretins on a day-to-day basis.
by the way, God is love. God is real. God is here.save yourself years of trying to quieten those voices at the back of your head telling you that God loves you. spare your future companions the boredom of hearing you once again droning on about the idiocy of believers.trust in Him and try to treat everybody you meet with kindness and respect, even, or especially if, they are being unkind and disrespectful to you. accept that you are no better or worse than anybody else. actually, try this for a week and see how it feels. good luck. God bless.;)

God...

Y'all idiots!!!

stovelid

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I think it was just after I was born. When that doctor slapped my arse, I just knew that no god would allow such unwarranted violence.

I hate to tell you this but he was messin' with your toot-toot.

Donal Og O Baelach

I was 33. I came to me all in a flash while I was hanging from a bit of wood between them two thieves.
A funny thing happened a few days later though...

Wibbs

HeadPig wrote: »

You don't have a very good grasp of physics.

So string theory is provable now is it? That expansion is understood(or even happened) and the huge amount of the universe that's invisible is not even a little suss? That all Hawking did was to push back the "start" is wrong? Enlighten us all with your superior knowledge then Headpig rather than a one line post that says "you're wrong". Preferably without recourse to wikipedia.

CiaranMT

God... wrote: »

Y'all idiots!!!

We were all wrong! :eek:

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

It was before I realised Santa didn't exist. Santa left evidence of his existence once a year, something God had never done.

gosuckonalemon

whiteboy wrote: »

How audacious of op to assume we all don't believe in God

Very true, as if there's not a few fruitloops out there still!

AgileMyth

thebullkf wrote: »

how do you know he doesan't?

can you prove he doesn't?

you make the claim-burden of proof lies with you;)

But people can claim it exists for thousands of years and never have to prove it?
People can force these beliefs on children without proof?
But as soon as someone jumps to a logical conclusion proof is suddenly deemed necessary.

This is the kind of warped logic that keeps religions powerful.

Buceph

mrsbyrne wrote: »

scanlas i dont think the posters on this thread appreciate your obvious superiority and many related talents. wot you should do is get down on your knees and thank God that you dont have to mix with these cretins on a day-to-day basis.
by the way, God is love. God is real. God is here.save yourself years of trying to quieten those voices at the back of your head telling you that God loves you. spare your future companions the boredom of hearing you once again droning on about the idiocy of believers.trust in Him and try to treat everybody you meet with kindness and respect, even, or especially if, they are being unkind and disrespectful to you. accept that you are no better or worse than anybody else. actually, try this for a week and see how it feels. good luck. God bless.;)

There's a good thread on dealing with Psychosis in here somewhere.

ScumLord

I was born not believing in God then everybody lied to me so I'm not counting myself as ever being a believer.

PrincessLola

Alot of hate for OP here, if you believe in God then thats fine but Op is just saying he/she doesn't, btw the burden of proof is on those saying God exists; thats like saying 'can you prove invisable unicorns don't exist?'

Dudess

mrsbyrne wrote: »

scanlas i dont think the posters on this thread appreciate your obvious superiority and many related talents. wot you should do is get down on your knees and thank God that you dont have to mix with these cretins on a day-to-day basis.
by the way, God is love. God is real. God is here.save yourself years of trying to quieten those voices at the back of your head telling you that God loves you. spare your future companions the boredom of hearing you once again droning on about the idiocy of believers.trust in Him and try to treat everybody you meet with kindness and respect, even, or especially if, they are being unkind and disrespectful to you. accept that you are no better or worse than anybody else. actually, try this for a week and see how it feels. good luck. God bless.;)

In turn, you try not being snide and condescending? How is god real and here by the way?

PrincessLola wrote: »

Alot of hate for OP here, if you believe in God then thats fine but Op is just saying he/she doesn't, btw the burden of proof is on those saying God exists; thats like saying 'can you prove invisable unicorns don't exist?'

Yeah but the OP just stated "god doesn't exist" as if that's a fact. The OP may not believe in god but that doesn't make it definite god doesn't exist (I don't believe either but being absolutist and saying god definitely doesn't exist just because I don't believe, even if I think the idea is implausible, would be arrogant).

The burden of proof is on either "side" and neither has it, so it's best just to believe or not believe in what you believe or don't believe, and leave everyone else do the same.

nozzferrahhtoo

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

What age were you when you realised God didn't exist

No age, because I never though it did exist.

First time I heard the name was in Primary School when our teacher spent time each day reading one story a day from the Bible. I was always a heavy reader even from a young age... so this to me was "story time"... so I just listened to it as such.

I think I was around 11-12 when it suddenly hit me "Hang on... people BELIEVE this stuff???". I am as gob smacked today as I was then that people were and are taken in.

The same teacher also gave me the Hobbit to read. Had he told me people thought THAT was real I would have been no less or more gobsmacked. There appears to be very little reason to lend credence to one and not the other.

Scanlas The 2nd

Dudess wrote: »

In turn, you try not being snide and condescending? How is god real and here by the way?

Yeah but the OP just stated "god doesn't exist" as if that's a fact. The OP may not believe in god but that doesn't make it definite god doesn't exist (I don't believe either but being absolutist and saying god definitely doesn't exist just because I don't believe, even if I think the idea is implausible, would be arrogant).

The burden of proof is on either "side" and neither has it, so it's best just to believe or not believe in what you believe or don't believe, and leave everyone else do the same.

I don't think it's arrogant to say God doesn't exist, just like it isn't arrogant to say I'm not going to win next weeks lotto isn't arrogant. It's based on reasonable logic. For all practical purposes the two statements above are fact.

mickrock

Either God is everything or there is no God.

If God is, God is. If God isn't, God isn't.

Your beliefs do not determine what is and isn't.

-Ron Smothermon

mrsbyrne

Buceph wrote: »

There's a good thread on dealing with Psychosis in here somewhere.

you would diagnose advocating being kind and considerate to others as a case of psychosis?!?

mrsbyrne

Dudess wrote: »

In turn, you try not being snide and condescending? How is god real and here by the way?

Yeah but the OP just stated "god doesn't exist" as if that's a fact. The OP may not believe in god but that doesn't make it definite god doesn't exist (I don't believe either but being absolutist and saying god definitely doesn't exist just because I don't believe, even if I think the idea is implausible, would be arrogant).

The burden of proof is on either "side" and neither has it, so it's best just to believe or not believe in what you believe or don't believe, and leave everyone else do the same.

i can see how my post might of appeared snide , but not condescending. you have no problem with the fact that God is love, just with him being here, and real. well hes here and hes real, your just not looking hard enough.

Richard Dawkins Generic Store Brand Cola

Athiesm debates are like soooooo 2006!

Duggy747

Richard Dawkins Generic Store Brand Cola wrote: »

Athiesm debates are like soooooo 2006!

Your name sounds like one of those "quirky" and "hip" indie bands.

I listen to The Richard Dawkin's Generic Store Brand Colas...........you've probably never heard of them.

Dudess

mrsbyrne wrote: »

you would diagnose advocating being kind and considerate to others as a case of psychosis?!?

That poster was referring to the "voices in your head" part.

mrsbyrne wrote: »

you have no problem with the fact that God is love

I believe in love yes, but I don't believe love equates to god - I do believe people are entitled to interpret things as that though.

just with him being here, and real. well hes here and hes real, your just not looking hard enough.

You believe he's real and here - your prerogative - but that doesn't mean it's true. But believe, just don't tell others who don't share your belief that they're definitely wrong.
And by the same token, I have a myriad of reasons for not believing, but I won't force those on believers.

partyndbs

ops defo a loser

mod:banned.

God...

mrsbyrne wrote: »

i can see how my post might of appeared snide , but not condescending. you have no problem with the fact that God is love, just with him being here, and real. well hes here and hes real, your just not looking hard enough.

Where should we look, just wondering for the laugh!!

ScumLord

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah but the OP just stated "god doesn't exist" as if that's a fact.

Well I think we can say without much doubt that God, as described by faiths like Christianity and Islam isn't real. Their God is too human to be God.

Latchy

I think many of us will have seen through the bull**** religious lessons at school ( did we have any choice ?) and went along with it but thought that God (as a person ) would be a rational logical being as opposed to this mysterious one who's son performed miracles beyond human understanding or comprehension .

It might be easier for real atheists to sit comfortable with the notion of no God then somebody who believes .The former is under no illusions were as the latter has expectations .

But neither atheists or believer has the upper hand simply because neither knows the answer =simple

ScumLord

God... wrote: »

Where should we look, just wondering for the laugh!!

Science is the only way to God (if you do exist). If there is a God the only thing we can say for certain is he created everything, so the only way to understand him is to study his work.

God...

ScumLord wrote: »

Science is the only way to God (if you do exist). If there is a God the only thing we can say for certain is he created everything, so the only way to understand him is to study his work.

Why is he so secretive and not want to be known?

mrsbyrne

Dudess wrote: »

That poster was referring to the "voices in your head" part.

I believe in love yes, but I don't believe love equates to god - I do believe people are entitled to interpret things as that though.

You believe he's real and here - your prerogative - but that doesn't mean it's true. But believe, just don't tell others who don't share your belief that they're definitely wrong.
And by the same token, I have a myriad of reasons for not believing, but I won't force those on believers.

you dont believe that you have a conscience?those voices in your head , that whisper telling you that its not right to be cruel or unkind or put yourself first, thats your conscience. some people decide not to listen, and spend years and years trying to drown it out. this makes them very unhappy.
of course i believe that people are entitled to interpret love however they wish. every day i thank god that i live in a country were we are free to interpret thing as we wish, up to a point.
i dont think im forcing my beliefs on anyone. were all just anonymous posters sitting at computers. i didnt start this thread.neither did i start a thread implying that people who dont believe in god are somehow inferior and to be scoffed and scorned.

ScumLord

God... wrote: »

Why is he so secretive and not want to be known?

In science he's not secretive at all. It's all in your face, just look out the window.

God...

ScumLord wrote: »

In science he's not secretive at all. It's all in your face, just look out the window.

Yea... but there's no scientific proof that's God's work or there is a God so that's bull****.

Dudess

mrsbyrne wrote: »

you dont believe that you have a conscience?

Where did I say I don't? Just because I don't believe in god, the dude who created the universe, doesn't mean I don't believe I've a conscience. I can't see how there could be a connection between the two, but you do - and that's cool, it's your personal interpretation.

those voices in your head , that whisper telling you that its not right to be cruel or unkind or put yourself first, thats your conscience. some people decide not to listen, and spend years and years trying to drown it out. this makes them very unhappy.

I'm sure, but you don't have to believe in god to acknowledge your conscience - unless you think these are one and the same thing. But not everyone would share that view.

sock puppet

mrsbyrne wrote: »

you dont believe that you have a conscience?those voices in your head , that whisper telling you that its not right to be cruel or unkind or put yourself first, thats your conscience. some people decide not to listen, and spend years and years trying to drown it out. this makes them very unhappy.

Very naive view imo. There are plenty of dickheads out there who aren't unhappy.

Galway K9

Move to Atheism please.

ScumLord

God... wrote: »

Yea... but there's no scientific proof that's God's work or there is a God so that's bull****.

That's why I said if. But the bottom line is that science is the only way to find out one way or another.

optogirl

mrsbyrne wrote: »

you dont believe that you have a conscience?those voices in your head , that whisper telling you that its not right to be cruel or unkind or put yourself first, thats your conscience. some people decide not to listen, and spend years and years trying to drown it out. this makes them very unhappy.
of course i believe that people are entitled to interpret love however they wish. every day i thank god that i live in a country were we are free to interpret thing as we wish, up to a point.
i dont think im forcing my beliefs on anyone. were all just anonymous posters sitting at computers. i didnt start this thread.neither did i start a thread implying that people who dont believe in god are somehow inferior and to be scoffed and scorned.

No but you are implying that the impetus to live a moral life comes from a higher being - it is quite insulting to be told that we have no desire to live good decent lives by ourselves - that it is a man in the sky telling us to do it

partyatmygaff

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

No proof is required really though, just a bit of common sense. It's quite obvious to objective people with basic reasoning abiltiy that it is ridiculous to believe in a God.

The typical smugness.

All Theists lack common sense, lack objectivity and lack basic reasoning ability.

"Not arrogant" indeed.

Of course I can't prove there isn't a God, but at 9 I realized how ridiculous and astronomically unlikely a God was to exist.

Mathematically speaking, the probability of God existing is 0.5. Objectively speaking, it is equally likely that God may exist as it is that God may not exist. It is people's personal convictions which determine to them whether or not God exists. Personally I am certain in the existence of God and you are free to think otherwise so long as you accept that your opinion does not fact make.

ScumLord wrote: »

Well I think we can say without much doubt that God, as described by faiths like Christianity and Islam isn't real. Their God is too human to be God.

Who is "we"? Speak for yourself.

optogirl

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The typical smugness.

All Theists lack common sense, lack objectivity and lack basic reasoning ability.

"

somebody who doesn't agree with you is smug

Nobody said the above

mrsbyrne

i have to go out. very interesting funny thread. hope your still at it when i come back.:):)

God...

mrsbyrne wrote: »

every day i thank god that i live in a country were we are free to interpret thing as we wish, up to a point.

Why (in your opinion) did God make some born into poverty and others ok and so on?

In my opinion it's extremely arrogant to think if there is a God he selected you personally to be ok and others born into poverty, war torn countries etc.

Scanlas The 2nd

mrsbyrne wrote: »

you dont believe that you have a conscience?those voices in your head , that whisper telling you that its not right to be cruel or unkind or put yourself first, thats your conscience. some people decide not to listen, and spend years and years trying to drown it out. this makes them very unhappy.
of course i believe that people are entitled to interpret love however they wish. every day i thank god that i live in a country were we are free to interpret thing as we wish, up to a point.
i dont think im forcing my beliefs on anyone. were all just anonymous posters sitting at computers. i didnt start this thread.neither did i start a thread implying that people who dont believe in god are somehow inferior and to be scoffed and scorned.

Sweet Jesus