What age were you when you realised God didn't exist

Deus Ex Machina

Most children become omniscient around 16 or 17 don't they? I'd say I was the same.

suicide_circus

For me, being anything but agnostic seems odd. Atheism is a faith too imo.

CrazyRabbit

Has it ever occured to any of you that we are God?

It's a theory supported by another theoy...the theory of evolution. As we evolve, we also gain a greater understanding of the universe, and how to control it. Logic dictates that eventually we should evolve to become God-like (assuming we survive long enough).

Now, what happens when you become omnipitent? Well it would be a meaningless existence, so the only thing to do would be to start the journey of evolution all over again. So you turn yourself into the seeds of life all over the universe and allow them to evolve, knowing that at least one of these lifeforms will reach the end of evolution (being God).

Ok, I've greatly simplified this as I'm too lazy to type out pages of text, but I find the idea fascinating. It would mean that Jesus really was the son of God

CiaranMT

Atheist myself, but I post this oft-referenced quote by Epicurus for those who do believe in a god or gods:

Epicurus wrote:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

I also recommend 'God's Debris' by Scott Adams, creator of the Dilbert comics. It's available as a free pdf to download, which I've posted at the end.

Here's a passage:

“If you were God,” he said, “what would you want?”
“I don’t know. I barely know what I want, much less
what God wants.”
“Imagine that you are omnipotent. You can do anything,
create anything, be anything. As soon as you decide
you want something, it becomes reality.”
I waited, knowing there was more.
He continued. “Does it make sense to think of God as
wanting anything? A God would have no emotions, no
fears, no desires, no curiosity, no hunger. Those are human
shortcomings, not something that would be found in an
omnipotent God. What then would motivate God?”
“Maybe it’s the challenge, the intellectual stimulation of
creating things,” I offered.

“Omnipotence means that nothing is a challenge. And
what could stimulate the mind of someone who knows
everything?”
“You make it sound almost boring to be God. But I
guess you’ll say boredom is a human feeling.”
“Everything that motivates living creatures is based on
some weakness or flaw. Hunger motivates animals. Lust
motivates animals. Fear and pain motivate animals. A God
would have none of those impulses. Humans are driven by
all of our animal passions plus loftier-sounding things like
self-actualization and creativity and freedom and love. But
God would care nothing for those things, or if he cared
would already have them in unlimited quantities. None of
them would be motivating.”

Download link

CiaranMT

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Has it ever occured to any of you that we are God?

It's a theory supported by another theoy...the theory of evolution. As we evolve, we also gain a greater understanding of the universe, and how to control it. Logic dictates that eventually we should evolve to become God-like (assuming we survive long enough).

Now, what happens when you become omnipitent? Well it would be a meaningless existence, so the only thing to do would be to start the journey of evolution all over again. So you turn yourself into the seeds of life all over the universe and allow them to evolve, knowing that at least one of these lifeforms will reach the end of evolution (being God).

Ok, I've greatly simplified this as I'm too lazy to type out pages of text, but I find the idea fascinating. It would mean that Jesus really was the son of God

Something that is written about by Adams in the book I posted! Snap!

optogirl

suicide_circus wrote: »

For me, being anything but agnostic seems odd. Atheism is a faith too imo.

In what way? I would consider myself an atheist because I am absolutely convinced that there is no higher deity or afterlife - infact I find it hard to understand how anyone can. I am only agnostic in so far as I can't prove the lack of existence.

I don't however belong to an organisation in order to share or fulfuil my lack of belief so I don't see how it can be considered a 'faith' also

AnalogueKid

I was definitely still in primary school when I first had doubts. Around age 13 I was completely convinced it was a total crock. Virgin birth, the assumption of Mary (not mentioned in the Bible, yet something most Catholics believe in), creation, the 10 commandments (Why should god be jealous of other gods?), the fact that it was completely at odds with virtually everything else I learned, miracles and that your religious beliefs are determined by the part of the world you are born in - an Irish monotheist would most likely be a polytheist had they been born in India.

The burden of proof lies with those who believe, not with those who don't. If one believes in polka dot unicorns, it's ludicrous to expect those who don't to disprove the existence of polka dot unicorns.

Duggy747

Vinny-Chase wrote: »

Again, that's religion, not God.

Yes, I'm glad you picked up on my confusion on what the difference is between a deity and religion itself. Oh well, I guess I'll just go back to believing in God again.

It's like you've known me my entire life......

suicide_circus wrote:

For me, being anything but agnostic seems odd. Atheism is a faith too imo.

Atheism is a disbelief, not a faith.

CiaranMT

suicide_circus wrote: »

For me, being anything but agnostic seems odd. Atheism is a faith too imo.

Then you misunderstand the term.

Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in a deity, not the belief that there is none. That's anti-theism.

mickrock

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Has it ever occured to any of you that we are God?

Yes, we are all God, as is everything in the universe.

CiaranMT

Duggy747 wrote: »

Atheism is a disbelief, not a faith.

Ninja edit :P

turbojunkie

http://www.maniacworld.com/Dawkins-vs-religion-battle-2478.html

Duggy747

CiaranMT wrote: »

Ninja edit :P

I'm brutal for typing up the opposite of what I mean, I don't read it fully until I've posted it

Wasn't a great ninja edit either, realised nearly 5 minutes later :pac:

Wibbs

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Evidence - yes. We are it. Life can develop on planets - we have an example - 'The Earth'.

Correction, life can develop on the earth. That's the extent of the evidence. Now is there just one thing "special" about the earth or are there many? Would life need a large moon/plate tectonics/periodic catastrophy/magnetic core/precise mineral makeup/any number of variables? We can't answer those questions yet(though we're doing well). If the range of Goldilocks parameters is very large, the likelihood of other "earths" diminishes with each addition to the pile. Now the usual get out of gaol free card for this is "but it's effin huge Ted, bound to be more". Maybe, maybe not. Even in the infinite the possibility exists of the unique. You, me everyone reading this proves this in a way. Humans are common as muck consciousness is very common but in this impossibly vast universe in a small but significant way, You are unique. The "ghost in the machine"* looking out is the only one that exists. And has or will ever exist.

If we could detect gods they would cease to be gods - they would become detectable entities and have to conform to scientific parameters of what is real.

Agreed or at least real in this universe yes. Bit of a gedankenexperiment... Imagine humans survive and become advanced as advanced it is possible to be and we develop the ability to create baby universe singularities. And we do just that. Create a new universe. Maybe as a place to escape the heat death of our own or whatever. If life kicks off in the new universe and becomes technology intelligent they might be able to detect our influence. We would be essentially "gods" in that we would be the motive force of their universe supernatural to their universe. Theirr universe may because of our tweaking have different laws and because of that a different science.

Also, define 'intelligent'

A lifeforms ability to have and understand a sense of self and the ability to change it's own evolutionary destiny through application of mind and technology springing from that mind. That would be my definition. No other animal but man demonstrates this.

It has yet to be proven that 'intelligence' adds to survivability.

Agreed. Bacteria are infinitely more adaptable and tough than intelligent apes.

Great 'intelligent' civilisations in our own past have come and gone - why not 'out there' too.

True, but in the fall of civilisations you're confusing the outcome of the acts with the outcome of the play. "Rome fell, so that's it then" Except here we are. One could argue that if for example Rome never fell that we would be swanning around on Mars drinking Manhattans, but as life seems to redouble it's evolutionary efforts after mass extinctions, maybe civilisations are similar? That if they stay around too long they become stagnant. That progress is a lurching violent thing played out over time.


*not in any spooky psychic supernatural sense.

whiteboy

How audacious of op to assume we all don't believe in God

DarkJager

whiteboy wrote: »

How audacious of op to assume we all don't believe in God

Not at all - not everyone believes in god.

starlit

I'm 50/50 about that. I still believe that God exists but don't believe everything about the Catholic faith/beliefs. I believed Jesus, the holy mary existed but the story behind them could be all flawed it could be true or not true or only partially true or a cover up for the real Jesus who could have been a woman...or that the holy mary wasn't the holy mary and just mary....i'm very doubtful of the whole catholic religion, i'm making it sound more complicated now. I suppose its in recent years from ages 18-25 have I realised that I am starting to loose faith and interest in religion though...thats all nothing to do with not believing in God. To me God is seperate from religion... whether he exists or not thats' everyone's choice and opinion on that, everyone is different.

Scuid Mhór

I think I was around twelve when I started describing myself as agnostic.

Latchy

whiteboy wrote: »

How audacious of op to assume we all don't believe in God

Presumptuous in that he didn't put a poll up with 'I still believe in God ' option .

HeadPig

Wibbs wrote: »

No proof is required? This is teenage/newage "ohmigodI'mhavinganovelthought!" stuff. Nope you're not. You're really not. This stage usually comes after or alongside the "amItheonlyonethatexistsandalllifeisillusary" notion. Whatever about a personal deity(and whatever floats your boat there) a creator deity or motive "intelligent" force that created the universe is still somewhat up for grabs. It certainly can't be disproven. There are a number of questions we're still asking and some of the current answers are... well out there, some IMHO hooey(tm) masquerading as science. Dark matter/energy for a start. A major fudge to make the existing theories figures fit. If the figures don't fit the equation rather than invent an invisible factor to balance the books, step back and revisit the equation. Think outside the box a bit. If you have ten apples in one hand and 5 in the other, it doesnt just tell you you have 15 apples, it also tells you you got huge fcuking hands. String theory? Nice enough, but unprovable and not a little weird in places(not always a bad thing). Hawkings recent stuff about the time "before" the universe fudges things and explains eff all just puts the creation bit back. Again. "Oh it didn't need any motive external force, just the laws of physics and gravity" yea brilliant that Ted. And where pray tell did they both come from?

Annnnyhoo. :D A creator force of some nature is likely to exist. It may be internal and "natural" to this universe or it could be external and "supernatural". That external may be a blind watchmaker fumbling in the dark or it just might be conscious and directed in building the cogs of our reality. The latter would to all intents and purposes be "God".

You don't have a very good grasp of physics.

mrsbyrne

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

See ya later, come back when you can handle my quaintness.

scanlas i dont think the posters on this thread appreciate your obvious superiority and many related talents. wot you should do is get down on your knees and thank God that you dont have to mix with these cretins on a day-to-day basis.
by the way, God is love. God is real. God is here.save yourself years of trying to quieten those voices at the back of your head telling you that God loves you. spare your future companions the boredom of hearing you once again droning on about the idiocy of believers.trust in Him and try to treat everybody you meet with kindness and respect, even, or especially if, they are being unkind and disrespectful to you. accept that you are no better or worse than anybody else. actually, try this for a week and see how it feels. good luck. God bless.;)

God...

Y'all idiots!!!

stovelid

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I think it was just after I was born. When that doctor slapped my arse, I just knew that no god would allow such unwarranted violence.

I hate to tell you this but he was messin' with your toot-toot.

Donal Og O Baelach

I was 33. I came to me all in a flash while I was hanging from a bit of wood between them two thieves.
A funny thing happened a few days later though...

Wibbs

HeadPig wrote: »

You don't have a very good grasp of physics.

So string theory is provable now is it? That expansion is understood(or even happened) and the huge amount of the universe that's invisible is not even a little suss? That all Hawking did was to push back the "start" is wrong? Enlighten us all with your superior knowledge then Headpig rather than a one line post that says "you're wrong". Preferably without recourse to wikipedia.

CiaranMT

God... wrote: »

Y'all idiots!!!

We were all wrong! :eek:

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

It was before I realised Santa didn't exist. Santa left evidence of his existence once a year, something God had never done.

gosuckonalemon

whiteboy wrote: »

How audacious of op to assume we all don't believe in God

Very true, as if there's not a few fruitloops out there still!

AgileMyth

thebullkf wrote: »

how do you know he doesan't?

can you prove he doesn't?

you make the claim-burden of proof lies with you;)

But people can claim it exists for thousands of years and never have to prove it?
People can force these beliefs on children without proof?
But as soon as someone jumps to a logical conclusion proof is suddenly deemed necessary.

This is the kind of warped logic that keeps religions powerful.

Buceph

mrsbyrne wrote: »

scanlas i dont think the posters on this thread appreciate your obvious superiority and many related talents. wot you should do is get down on your knees and thank God that you dont have to mix with these cretins on a day-to-day basis.
by the way, God is love. God is real. God is here.save yourself years of trying to quieten those voices at the back of your head telling you that God loves you. spare your future companions the boredom of hearing you once again droning on about the idiocy of believers.trust in Him and try to treat everybody you meet with kindness and respect, even, or especially if, they are being unkind and disrespectful to you. accept that you are no better or worse than anybody else. actually, try this for a week and see how it feels. good luck. God bless.;)

There's a good thread on dealing with Psychosis in here somewhere.