What age were you when you realised God didn't exist

RichieC

Amanda Deep Virus wrote: »

I've heard it said since "There are no atheists in a fox hole", I tend to agree.

That's not an argument and never will be.

lmaopml

Jackass, you are a patient poster. Epicurus again...
Cure us from Epi.

Donkey Oaty

lmaopml wrote: »

Jackass, you are a patient poster. Epicurus again...
Cure us from Epi.

Has he spoken about that already? Give us a link...thanks.

bodice ripper

Jakkass wrote: »

Or for some of us seeing what the Creator has done through science!

Jakkass wrote: »

I take it you haven't heard of the concept of omniscience, no?

shall I be impressed by the works of anyone imbued with omniscience? I mean well done starting with the strongest possible hand

b.o.m.d.a.s.

i believed in God all my life.

then when i was 19 Jesus saved my life.

then when i was 21 i turned away from God.

in the last 5 and a half eayrs i turned back to God. I have been asking God for huge favours and he has been showing mercy on me and mine,

ipso facto don't be so hard on yourself:cool:

Donkey Oaty

bodice ripper wrote: »

shall I be impressed by the works of anyone imbued with omniscience?

Alas, most of the posters on boards.ie think they fall into that category.

Mr Trade In

Had a hunch around age 7 reading Mythology books and confirmed at age 9/10 while reading the bible seeing similar stories across the board.Flood Myth exists in every region of the world,Head God in each sect has a son who saves civilization and all the other stuff,also studied with Jehovah's Witnesses from aged 10 to 15,Reading History books on early Christianity/Religion in General just pushed me over the finish line.

lmaopml

Don't mind me Donkey Oats, I've just seen the good ole Epi debate A LOT!...but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed here if that's important and stuff to the op et al..

For links, if you stick in 'Epicurus' in the search box ^ up there somewhere it will give the results - lots of debates/arguements/hugs and kisses..

rorrissey

Seven.

Donkey Oaty

lmaopml wrote: »

Don't mind me Donkey Oats, I've just seen the good ole Epi debate A LOT!...but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed here if that's important and stuff to the op et al..

For links, if you stick in 'Epicurus' in the search box ^ up there somewhere it will give the results - lots of debates/arguements/hugs and kisses..

Thanks Lmaopml - but did that already and couldn't find Jakkass's thoughts on it - it's specifically his views I'm interested in, because it's not often you meet a thoughtful Christian.

Made me own mind up many decades ago!

lmaopml

Jackass knows his stuff....

Good wishes on your Epi'c journey..:)

General General

Thanks to this thread my 12 kids are now questioning whether or not I am actually God.

Sweet.

RichieC

lmaopml wrote: »

Jackass knows his stuff....

Anyone can "know their stuff" when you're discussing a subject as arbitrary as religion.

He should put his thoughts to things a bit more useful.

lmaopml

RichieC wrote: »

Anyone can "know their stuff" when you're discussing a subject as arbitrary as religion.

He should put his thoughts to things a bit more useful.

Yes, like this thread :rolleyes: The irony.

/bedtime

Donkey Oaty

RichieC wrote: »

Anyone can "know their stuff" when you're discussing a subject as arbitrary as religion.

He should put his thoughts to things a bit more useful.

I know what you mean, Ritchie, but he speaks from the perspective of a commited Christian who is willing to engage in debate, so he's a subject matter expert in that sense, and a rare specimen.

investment

thebullkf wrote: »

how do you know he doesan't?

can you prove he doesn't?

you make the claim-burden of proof lies with you;)

U Ok?

MungoMan

Until I was 11, I had absolutely no doubt that there was a man in the sky with a beard looking down and judging people, and that he fathered a son with a virgin girl in the middle east , who turned water into wine, and walked on water, and accomplised many other feats of magic.
I was gullible back then, but I was only 11.


Then I remember one day when I was in 5th class, our teacher told a story from the bible. It was about a guy called Jonah who was swallowed by a whale. Three days later he emerged alive from the whale.

That was the first moment I started having doubts, I remember thinking that it absolutely couldnt have happened.

After that I turned from skeptic to Agnostic to Athiest to secular humanist !

Donkey Oaty

MungoMan wrote: »

Until I was 11, I had absolutely no doubt that there was a man in the sky with a beard looking down and judging people, and that he fathered a son with a virgin girl in the middle east , who turned water into wine, and walked on water, and accomplised many other feats of magic.

Very good summary, although you missed out the fact that He has a list of things that we are not allowed to do, which is often policed by His enforcers on planet Earth.

RayM

Jakkass wrote: »

I honestly don't get how it is so "obvious" that God doesn't exist.

I should probably have been more clear and said that to me, it seems completely obvious that there is no god. I should add that in the same post, I deliberately made a point of saying that I "stopped believing in god" rather than "realised god didn't exist" because the latter sounds quite arrogant.

Jakkass wrote:

Would you like to explain how?

If I saw a shred of evidence. Even just the tiniest scintilla of an iota of a jot of an indication that there might possibly be some kind of benevolent creator who built the universe, moulded us in his own image, looks down on us and answers our prayers, I might be willing to doubt his non-existence.

Can't remember ever believing.. Doesn't really matter anyway. My problem is with religion, not whether there's a God or not. God and organised religion are not and never will be in any way related to each other.

zirazira

it seems I never believes in it.

Honestly lads, is Atheism the official religion of After Hours? Because the thread title assumes that *everyone* who comes into After Hour *is* Atheist, and that the non-existence of God is an established fact.

"when did you stop believing in God" would have been a far better title and asked pretty much the same question.

Why go for the incendiary option? So you can draw in some filthy theists and convert them to your Truth?

Should all of us theists f*ck off from AH then?

Answer: I've never stopped believing, and that point was reenforced when my grandmother, who is nearing the end of her life, went in for care, and I saw the strain on my mother. I had the chance to look in the prayer room at Dublin airport, so in a quiet moment I went in to look. It helped to sit and pray, and ask for my mother. First time through the door of a religious room in years apart from family occasions, and to make the request and sit in the quiet, it eased my mind.

Are you going to chastise me? Point and laugh? Derisively poo-poo my greif? And are to going to do it here? I'd expect all of the above in A&A, even respectful criticism of my actions in there. But why should it be in the more public After Hours that you put your assumptions?

I remember a time when I came to After Hours to escape from a family death for some comedy. All these "God/whatever is crap" threads mean I can no longer do so.

If you're greiving, f*ck off from After Hours. That's the message I'm getting.

philologos

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Hi Jakkass.

If by "God" you mean an omniscient, benevolent and omnipotent being, then I'd be interested in your brief thoughts from a Christian perspective on the the Epicurean paradox - if there is evil in the world, such a God cannot know about it, care about it and be able to do something about it.

I first encountered Epicurus as a first year philosophy student studying the Philosophy of Religion. Let's post it up just so everyone can see what it is.

I'll go with the longer more refined version that philosophers often give:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
3. A perfectly good being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being, who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

I believe it is perfectly good until point 6. I personally don't believe that God owes us anything, I personally don't believe that he is a cosmic babysitter. God has already done all things to bring us back to Him by sending Jesus to die in our place on the cross. As far as I'm concerned He's done everything for me.

Leaving this point aside, I do believe that a loving God can let evil happen. Epicurus ignores the fact that people can learn great things through adversity. In the Bible when Joseph is sold into slavery by His brothers He doesn't curse God for putting Him there, but rather Joseph realises that He has become a better person for suffering as He did.

Joseph eventually become second in command in Egypt and was responsible for regulating food supplies at a time of famine. He meets his brothers eventually and says to them.

Genesis 50:19-21 wrote:

But Joseph said to them, “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God? You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. So then, don’t be afraid. I will provide for you and your children.” And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them.

The idea that God must intervene in every case of evil is simplistic, it is about as simplistic as saying that my parents should follow me around constantly to make sure I don't take drugs. Rather, most parents realise that their children have to know how the world operates. I can relate to Joseph because I now understand suffering that I went through much in the same way. I am glad that I have gone through it because it makes me a more understanding person.

If there is a role or a purpose for suffering in the world, then Epicurus' argument falls at the first hurdle. There is possibly a reason why God would permit evil. The existence of evil itself is the result of the fall of humanity as I would see it, we can be gradually restored by following Jesus and acknowledging God the Father. It is a choice that everyone has to make.

I hope this helps a little. I personally prefer the arguments of evil which would suggest that it makes God less probable rather than proving that God doesn't exist because Epicurus simply fails to do this.

cucbuc

"But why should it be in the more public After Hours that you put your assumptions?" (seaslacker)


My point exactly..and they are assumptions.

philologos

MungoMan wrote: »

Until I was 11, I had absolutely no doubt that there was a man in the sky with a beard looking down and judging people

What religion is that man? :pac:
Who believes that God is a physical man in the sky?

RichieC wrote: »

Anyone can "know their stuff" when you're discussing a subject as arbitrary as religion.

He should put his thoughts to things a bit more useful.

I don't know anything more useful to humanity than sharing a message that can save and transform peoples lives eternally.

Alot of people would believe that before being told that he exists in everything all around us.

doomed

Whatever age I was when is discovered that praying during football matches had no discernable effect on the result.

krudler

Amanda Deep Virus wrote: »

I'll tell you of an occasion I hoped he existed, because I asked for his help.

1988 in a UN base above a village named Haris in South Lebanon.

The Hezbollah started to launch rockets into Israel from behind our camp (Tech Town), Israel retaliated and started to bomb the crap out of us.

It was my first day in Lebanon, didn't know where the bunker was so I crawled under an Armoured Personnel Carrier for cover and stayed there.

I've heard it said since "There are no atheists in a fox hole", I tend to agree.

The irony being if more people realised god didnt exist you wouldnt have been in the lebanon to begin with

old hippy

I was 14 when I realised that it's all a big con. And I was in my early 30s when religion started to fascinate me, as an outsider.

krudler

Jakkass wrote: »

What religion is that man? :pac:
Who believes that God is a physical man in the sky?



I don't know anything more useful to humanity than sharing a message that can save and transform peoples lives eternally.

Mormons