Sound quality issues

SpaceRanger

I'm having a lot of trouble with sound quality on my songs. The current one I'm putting together has a seriously pumping bass, but the song won't sound clean and crisp the way I want it. I've tried using filters, I'm using high quality samples for my drums and some really good plugins for reverb and whatnot, but the song sounds muddy no matter what I try!:( Any tips?

Neurojazz

SpaceRanger wrote: »

I'm having a lot of trouble with sound quality on my songs. The current one I'm putting together has a seriously pumping bass, but the song won't sound clean and crisp the way I want it. I've tried using filters, I'm using high quality samples for my drums and some really good plugins for reverb and whatnot, but the song sounds muddy no matter what I try!:( Any tips?

Using something like www.soundcloud.com post up a snippet for us and we can hear what you are on about (it's free and easy to use)

Anima

Try and push things further up. Like bringing your leads and whatnot an octave higher. Gives more space for bass and things like that.

Could just be a couple of sounds clashing as well.

Quiggers

Could be clipping, or a kick causing a compressor to pump as you say, muddines can be caused by too much low end, try high passing everything, just bring the cut off up until you hear it catching the sound and then back it off a bit.

ICN

Well.. without knowing exactly:

I found that at the start, I was putting too much compression on everything.

Also not EQ'ing correctly.

And had too many things in the same Octaves, like Anima said.

Just move sh!t around. I try to make my tracks like a big chord. If you are working in Am, you'll be working around these notes-ish:

A, B, C, D, E, F, G (G#)

Kick starts @ A1 55hz.. Then everything else can be placed above that as you decide. Your track is like a one big piano.

I use a little Pitch to Frequency chart (taped to my desk) to guide me when I'm wondering.

Voxengo Span can help you pinpoint what Notes the Freq's are in its spectrum analyser. Stick it on Low Freq & hover your Mouse over the peaks.


So go easy on the compression (if you are unsure). EQ the bottom out of stuff that you dont need. Solo stuff on a Spectrum analyser & see where everything hits & potential clashes. Try not to add any EQ if possible.

Try & give everything its own place in the frequency spectrum (top to bottom) by moving stuff up & down and within the Octaves. Sometimes an element will sound better in F, than E for instance - depends on whats going on.. so dont be afraid to use your ears to find where it sits right. Besides, if you have everything at the same note in different octaves you'll get a build-up of harmonics in the same places.


http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/



Sean posted these Vids before on EQ'n.. Very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNYBbPAvKE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-PjWts3nI

splitrmx

Cut everything before 90hz on all instruments except the bass and kick drum.

Cut everything below 30hz on the bass and kick drum.

krd

Are you using monitors (even cheapish ones), or home stereo speakers?

Home stereo speakers are nearly impossible to get anything to sound clear on.

Just try dropping the volume of the bass.

Just work at it with all the usual methods - eq's etc - you may just find the tweaks that work for you.

You should watch those Eq videos ICN posted a few times.

Anima

Should use headphones if you want accurate monitoring. Most people aren't going to use monitor speakers in a treated room, so theres no point when it comes to EQing etc. Only problem with headphones is the bass isn't easy to get right.

krd

Anima wrote: »

Should use headphones if you want accurate monitoring. Most people aren't going to use monitor speakers in a treated room, so theres no point when it comes to EQing etc. Only problem with headphones is the bass isn't easy to get right.

The real difference between domestic speakers and monitors is monitors have a flatish response. What's created on them is taken as the base standard. Domestic speakers always have funny sweetener curves on the - which is fine for giving stuff produced on flat response speakers extra character. Playing back stuff on monitors, even at a very low volume, can tell you lots you'll never get on monitors or headphones. I've had too many bad experiences of creating stuff that sounded fantastic on headphones - but play it back on speakers and really brutal problems appear.


There was a documentary on BBC2 the other night. George Martin. In one bit he talks about sound recordings being impressionistic. And I think it's really true. He talked about the impressionist painters - how they got you to see what they wanted you to see - not what they paint (they didn't do photo realism - look at a Monet painting, it's full of blobs of paint, at the same time it has clarity) Clarity, in music, may also be impressionistic.

Anima

The real difference between domestic speakers and monitors is monitors have a flatish response. What's created on them is taken as the base standard. Domestic speakers always have funny sweetener curves on the - which is fine for giving stuff produced on flat response speakers extra character. Playing back stuff on monitors, even at a very low volume, can tell you lots you'll never get on monitors or headphones. I've had too many bad experiences of creating stuff that sounded fantastic on headphones - but play it back on speakers and really brutal problems appear.

I realise that, what I'm saying is that no matter what speaker you use in your room when producing, the room is going to affect the sound that reaches your ears. Which means all your detailed corrections (EQing) are meaningless because what you're hearing isn't a flat uniform response. In particular, the bass is going to be really affected.

Which is unfortunate because most of the frequencies of interest for electronic music at least, is in the low end.

Headphones don't suffer this, not as much anyway. So decent headphones in an untreated room would be the way to go in my opinion. Still a good idea to have monitors as well though.

electrogrimey

Good post ICN, cheers.

Thought I'd chime in with a few problems I've encountered implementing this stuff.

I know you're supposed to give each element its own space in the frequency range, and cut out as much below and above as possible to do that, but when I take a kick for instance, and cut about say 500hz, it sounds completely different, and not as good. Same with most elements.

Also, pitching percussion and drums. I know you can use a spectral analyser, but that really doesn't give you an accurate representation of what note a snare is hitting at for example, it gives you where the main peak in volume is on the spectrum, but that's not neccessarily the note. Are there any plug-ins that do this? AFAIK Ableton doesn't have one.

ICN

Theres a little plugin by Melda EG

http://www.meldaproduction.com/freevstplugins/mtuner.php

Dunno if it'll be of help. I'm tired & might have misunderstood ya!

The Note value sometimes keeps changing if its something like a clap.. but it goes around in a cycle & shows you what the notes involved are - I trust :pac:

______________________________________________________

With Drum hits especially - If a drastic change is needed, I look for something else altogether. It depends if you want it sounding normal or mad like.. but usually its best to find something else that works.

ICN

electrogrimey wrote: »

but when I take a kick for instance, and cut about say 500hz, it sounds completely different, and not as good. Same with most elements.

What are you doing Mate? A notch, or hipass / lopass / shelves?

Again I'm heading to bed & just about able to type this:

Choosing different slopes will give you either harsher or more gradual EQ removal or addition.

What have you got on EQ's 6, 12, 18, 24, 36, 48 slopes? Something like that :rolleyes:

For cuts & notches you have Q"s and can make the cut as low & wide or thin as you like. Thinner is more surgical. Wider is going to take out stuff either side that you might want to keep.

Only do something at whatever freq if you need it. Listen to it. Do the sweep with the hi-q & when you hear it ring / boom.. thats where theres notes.

500 is around B / C. So if you are (for arguements sake) looking to do something to a thing that is a D.. which is around 587.. using 500 as a static rule might not have the results you want. Try seeing / finding out what notes are in it & make a judgement of where to start from there. Or do the sweep & you'll find the main bits that way.

Kicks are like chords really, arent they. They contain a bottom, middle & top. You'll get different notes in them.

Sorry man if I've picked you up wrong at all, hope I wasn't condescending :cool: