Chip on my shoulder? Third level graduates.

ArtSmart

nummnutts wrote: »

The only point I pulled you up on was you telling the OP he should try college, even though he said he had tried.

i think one of us is drunk.

hic.



as i say no harm done.

jive

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Science and engineering are not that hard. But to get good grades a fair amount of work has to be put in. As for medicine, you're just plain wrong. Just out of interest what year of your degree are you in.

I've already said that getting good grades is a different story altogether. Passing is easy though let's not dance around it because that is a fact. Everyone has a degree these days regardless of intelligence level. I'm just pointing out to OP that there's no reason for anyone to get up on their high horse because they have a degree.

I'm in 3rd year of graduate entry. I've a big workload but it's not necessarily difficult. Just like any other degree you put in what you get out. If you're not willing to put the work in then don't whine when you don't get the results you want or worse yet if you actually manage to fail. IMO based on what I've seen at undergraduate level and graduate level med students seem to have the largest work load. Like I said though that doesn't make it difficult you just have to put more hours in.

Also I'd like to point out that you can actually REPEAT exams at college HAHAH. So not only can you pass by compensation (in some cases) but you can also TRY AGAIN. Don't tell me getting a degree is difficult hahahahha, my word.

Havermeyer

ArtSmart wrote: »

i think one of us is drunk.

hic.



as i say no harm done.

Don't forget your alka seltzar.

jive

JoseJones wrote: »

I never said I was even doing a course btw . You shouldn't be so presumptuous.

I walked right into that one. Assuming you've been to college / are in college then you should be aware of how easy it is to pass.

amacachi

jive wrote: »

I walked right into that one. Assuming you've been to college / are in college then you should be aware of how easy it is to pass.

Depends on the person tbh. I'm doing what I would say is a fairly difficult degree but have gotten to the end of second year (and my CA is decent) with very, very little work. On the other hand I know people who scraped a pass with plenty of work in a course that seemed piss easy to me just from my leaving cert subjects.

jive

amacachi wrote: »

Depends on the person tbh. I'm doing what I would say is a fairly difficult degree but have gotten to the end of second year (and my CA is decent) with very, very little work. On the other hand I know people who scraped a pass with plenty of work in a course that seemed piss easy to me just from my leaving cert subjects.

I understand that doing a course you hate might be difficult to do well in. As far as I'm concerned though if you do a bit of work you can pass, especially if you have the help of continuous assessment. Even if you fail you get another crack at the whip in autumn, it's a very forgiving system

sock puppet

jive wrote: »

I understand that doing a course you hate might be difficult to do well in. As far as I'm concerned though if you do a bit of work you can pass, especially if you have the help of continuous assessment. Even if you fail you get another crack at the whip in autumn, it's a very forgiving system

You'd almost think they wanted us to pass just so they could keep getting money from the government.

pragmatic1

jive wrote: »

Also I'd like to point out that you can actually REPEAT exams at college HAHAH. So not only can you pass by compensation (in some cases) but you can also TRY AGAIN. Don't tell me getting a degree is difficult hahahahha, my word.

You can repeat a post grad? You sure about that. If you fail a subject in an honours degree the best you'll get is an ordinary degree.

jive

pragmatic1 wrote: »

You can repeat a post grad? You sure about that. If you fail a subject in an honours degree the best you'll get is an ordinary degree.

Not sure. I'm assuming it's the same as undergrad but I'm probably wrong

jive

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

:rolleyes:



What? Arts?

No m8. Commerce with historical english literature religious studies and media

pragmatic1

Poor Craythur wrote: »

Pragmatic, medicine is no harder than science and engineering. That's a HUGE misconception. In fact the science learned in medicine is piss easy, a science degree is much more in-depth. Source: friend who has science degree and is now doing a medicine degree.

Have a science degree myself. The reason I'd consider medicine a more difficult discipline would be the length of time it takes to be fully qualified and the fact that students have to work in hospitals in addition to study.

Poor Craythur

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Have a science degree myself. The reason I'd consider medicine a more difficult discipline would be the length of time it takes to be fully qualified and the fact that students have to work in hospitals in addition to study.

Medicine is more full-on, no doubt, but I don't think it's harder intellectually.

amacachi

jive wrote: »

Not sure. I'm assuming it's the same as undergrad but I'm probably wrong

You're right, you are wrong. Failing in the years that count towards your degree mark usually means you only get an ordinary degree which leaves it pretty damn hard to get into a postgrad.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Most of my mates never went to college some would be better informed and more capable of dealing with the real world than some who I did go to college with.

Key word is some, you'll always get asses who look down on others whether that be dubs on culchies, culchies on ducs, grads on non-grads yada yada yada

Doesn't really matter, if you define someone by their occupation or demographic without actually knowing them then you really are a bit of a prat. But ime thankfully they are in the minority. Maybe not in AH though

jive

Aron Wet Forehand wrote: »

Doesn't really matter, if you define someone by their occupation or demographic without actually knowing them then you really are a bit of a prat. But ime thankfully they are in the minority. Maybe not in AH though

QFT

Naikon

Poor Craythur wrote: »

Pragmatic, medicine is no harder than science and engineering. That's a HUGE misconception. In fact the science learned in medicine is piss easy, a science degree is much more in-depth. Source: friend who has science degree and is now doing a medicine degree.



I know. Well, they'll be friends with them but still think our degree is worth more.

HEARSAY!

Besides, who gives a **** what these people think? Chances are, if they are lacking in subject matter to talk about besides academic masturbation, they aren't really worth the association, now are they? Academic snobbery(at least today) is a pursuit of the mediocre. What one can make up for lack of true innovation, can be substituted for an arbitrary "I got a 2.1, 1.1". It's bull****. I say all this despite being weeks away from getting a "science" degree btw. Too many bogus courses out there. HRM? Are you ****ing kidding me?

Poor Craythur

Naikon wrote: »

HEARSAY!

I have a science degree, I did the same degree and discipline as this girl (she's a friend from my class) and got a similar degree grade to her, so I believe her!

And it was a proper science degree, btw.

Da Shins Kelly

jive wrote: »

I did another course as well. Can I give my opinion on that? I also have friends doing various other degrees, can I not pass my opinion on what I've been told from other courses?

You sound like you find college very difficult. Perhaps you are struggling because you are in the wrong course?

Also given the retards I know that have gotten degrees from various colleges in various different subjects I can draw my conclusions from that.

I don't really understand why you're going on about how easy college is, as if everyone should be breezing by like you claim to be. College is tough enough and requires hardwork and dedication in order to make it to the end. It's not all as simple as you're making it sound. And there is a certain level of intelligence required to make it to the end. Some people may appear to be social retards, but then they've got the book smarts, and it's always the ones you don't expect.

amacachi

Poor Craythur wrote: »

I have a science degree, I did the same degree and discipline as this girl (she's a friend from my class) and got a similar degree grade to her, so I believe her!

And it was a proper science degree, btw.

Mind if I ask where you did it?

Poor Craythur

amacachi wrote: »

Mind if I ask where you did it?

TCD

jive

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I don't really understand why you're going on about how easy college is, as if everyone should be breezing by like you claim to be. College is tough enough and requires hardwork and dedication in order to make it to the end. It's not all as simple as you're making it sound. And there is a certain level of intelligence required to make it to the end. Some people may appear to be social retards, but then they've got the book smarts, and it's always the ones you don't expect.

I disagree. It might be difficult to get in because that's a competition and you effectively have to beat other people to get the course you want but IMO when you're in you're in the clear. As long as you go to college and do whats required (like you obviously did in school to get to college in the first place) then you shouldn't fail. And even if you do fail you have months to study for the repeat. I've often heard lecturers say "40% isn't hard to get" and they're right.

Also I'm not claiming anything. I'm saying it's not hard to get a degree. You get to sit the exams twice even if you do have a mare the first time round. If failing the first time round doesn't give you a kick in the arse then you're not cut out for a working life never mind college.

amacachi

Poor Craythur wrote: »

TCD

Can only talk about nearly the first two years but it's unbelievably easy to get this far.

Poor Craythur

amacachi wrote: »

Can only talk about nearly the first two years but it's unbelievably easy to get this far.

Oh yeah, science degrees aren't hard at all if you're interested in the subject. That wasn't my point, my point was that medicine is no harder and that it's a common misconception that it is. It's more full-on though.

amacachi

Poor Craythur wrote: »

Oh yeah, science degrees aren't hard at all if you're interested in the subject. That wasn't my point, my point was that medicine is no harder and that it's a common misconception that it is. It's more full-on though.

Medicine must be some piece of piss after all so. :pac:

Poor Craythur

amacachi wrote: »

Medicine must be some piece of piss after all so. :pac:

People just think it's harder because it's higher points. It's only higher points because it's a very in-demand course.

pragmatic1

amacachi wrote: »

Can only talk about nearly the first two years but it's unbelievably easy to get this far.

First two years are generally ok. Wait till fourth year.

amacachi

Poor Craythur wrote: »

People just think it's harder because it's higher points. It's only higher points because it's a very in demand course.

I suppose I'm also not comparing like-for-like, I'd say the difference in effort for me getting what I'll probably get this summer or an extra 20% would be absolutely colossal. Don't plan on finding out though. :pac:

amacachi

pragmatic1 wrote: »

First two years are generally ok. Wait till fourth year.

If it takes up more than an hour a week on top of lectures I don't know how I'll handle it. :pac:

pragmatic1

amacachi wrote: »

If it takes up more than an hour a week on top of lectures I don't know how I'll handle it. :pac:

Muhahahahaha.

craggles

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Science and engineering are not that hard.

Yeah?

Poor Craythur

pragmatic1 wrote: »

First two years are generally ok. Wait till fourth year.

Nah, fourth year is grand, third year is the bitch.

KittyeeTrix

Poor Craythur wrote: »

Nah, fourth year is grand, third year is the bitch.

I'm going into 4th year (science NUIG) and I'm pretty much hearing the same thing..... that 3rd year is much worse than 4th year, god I hope so!!!

pragmatic1

craggles wrote: »

Yeah?

Its like everything. If you put the work in you'll get the results. Maybe engineering not so much as you need a certain type of brain to do engineering courses in the first place.

pragmatic1

Poor Craythur wrote: »

Nah, fourth year is grand, third year is the bitch.

I had the opposite experience. Actually enjoyed third year and found the subjects interesting. I'll never forget the last few months of fourth year. Nearly put me off science.

KittyeeTrix

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I had the opposite experience. Actually enjoyed third year and found the subjects interesting. I'll never forget the last few months of fourth year. Nearly put me off science.

What subject did you do for 4th year??
Hope you don't mind me asking!

pragmatic1

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

What subject did you do for 4th year??
Hope you don't mind me asking!

It was biotech/biochem.

OutlawPete

We don't think we are better than the people below us. Only yesterday in the cafeteria in trinners we were chatting with some of the kitchen staff and I have often been on Dublin Bus when funds were tight like. Okay right so yeah we will have nice careers and maybe a better sports car than we drive now, but money isn't everything you know. Studies have shown that career jobs are more stressful and no matter how big the house, or how large the bank balance, sometimes it will never be enough to make up for that. Poor people haven't much money for sure but they lead less stressful lives than we do. It's a real ruiners reading threads like this.

Degrees show dedication but I don't believe that a majority of people thinks it shows aptitude.. Everyone knows it's just another step that some people choose to take that generally makes it easier to get a job and very importantly for me now, makes it easier to get work visas.

I do think that people look down on trades but that's because of the perception of people that do them, not the trade itself.. Everyone can remember the dickhead knackers in school who drop out at 15 to be a carpenter and that's what people associate trades with.

kowloon

I'd prefer to see people do what they want and be good at it. It's a shame to see someone with the natural skill to become a master cabinetmaker ending up doing a degree that's meaningless to them and ending up in an equally pointless career because the latter path is seen as more prestigious.

Since medicine has been mentioned, how many people end up doing it solely because it's a high points course and not because they're suited to being a doctor?

Azureus

A few might go into medicine for prestige/because of points, but I doubt many last the full stretch! I imagine its something you would really need to want, judging by the hours that friends put in at college anyway, and then again the hours you would be putting in when your actually in the job.

As for the uni people thinking they're better than those with no formal education/tradesmen etc, it is something I've noticed. I've a degree and my partners a plumber and we just take the piss out of the stereotype a lot. Ive a habit of saying really stupid stuff when im tired and my response when its pointed out is always 'shut up, I HAVE A DEGREE!'.
Means I cant be wrong, right??

Cavehill Red

There are a lot more people going to 3rd level than there used to be, and a lot more degree courses, and even more 3rd level institutions than there ever used to be.

Even my simple maths ability can derive from those facts that there are plenty of dip****s going to college these days, University of Carlow or Terminfeckin I. T. or wherever, and coming out with bits of paper marked 'Cultural Studies' or 'Local Studies' 2.2 degree after three years spent drinking and wearing traffic cones on their heads.

A degree in itself means very little without knowing what degree it is and where it was earned. I'd expect more by way of intellectual capacity from someone with a 1st in Engineering from Trinity than I would someone with a pass degree in Women's Studies or Ethnic Studies from Ahascragh technical college.

Plenty of my mates are tradespeople without degrees and are some of the smartest people I know. The MOST intelligent people I know are those with a trade AND a degree (never short of a well-paying job, those lot.)

There are some things that didn't used to be graduate subjects, like nursing or journalism, that are still effectively learnt on the job, and I don't see what making them into degrees added, other than thousands of euro worth of student debt. They were and are trades.

I foresee a day when brickies will need a degree in laying brick. It's part of the infantilisation of society really. An extended adolescence.

Anyone with a titter of wit (be they graduate or not) should be able to assess an individual's intelligence on their own merit, and should also be able to tell the difference in how different degrees require different levels of academic rigour.

craggles

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Its like everything. If you put the work in you'll get the results. Maybe engineering not so much as you need a certain type of brain to do engineering courses in the first place.

That's fair enough but you can't imply that subjects like Chemistry, Theoretical Physics etc are easy in any sense at all.

craggles

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Even my simple maths ability can derive from those facts that there are plenty of dip****s going to college these days, University of Carlow or Terminfeckin I. T. or wherever, and coming out with bits of paper marked 'Cultural Studies' or 'Local Studies' 2.2 degree after three years spent drinking and wearing traffic cones on their heads.

Alright I laughed, too true.

gosuckonalemon

couldntthink wrote: »

Why do so many people with a third level education think they're better/smarter/socially superior than people who don't have one.

Because they are.

couldntthink wrote: »

It really pisses me off. Just because you've gone through third level education doesn't make you any more intelligent or upper class.

It most certainly does.

couldntthink wrote: »

I was accepted to NUIG and GMIT etc, had a good leaving cert, and even did an engineering course for a while. Wasn't for me, dropped out and did a trade instead. I now enjoy my work, earn good money, and I am very nearly my own boss, all within 2 years of finishing. I have travelled all over the world and never had trouble getting work.

Congratulations!

couldntthink wrote: »

However I still notice a certain attitude from people who have a degree or a cert or whatever. They sometimes talk to you like they're somehow better than you.

They are.

couldntthink wrote: »

I consider myself to be broad minded, well read, and quite knowledgable on a lot of things. I know a lot of graduates who are one step short of a certified clown who make me wonder how the hell did they make it through the day, nevermind college.

You don't give off that impression from your post!

Feeona

I remember living with an Irish girl in Australia who had a huge chip on her shoulder about other people having degrees. She talked about it all the time, she used to make sly digs whenever possible. It all came to a head one night when my friend who I'd travelled over with asked chip girl did she want anything from the shop. Chip girl gave her a big list and ended with 'Now can you remember that seeing as you're so blonde?'. My friend had had enough of her sly digs at this stage and said 'Who's the one here with the degree?' Chip girl never gave her hassle after that.

It looks like her belief that people with degrees think they're better than her was right after all but ironically it was down to her attitude rather than the fact that she didn't have a degree.

craggles

Does this mean people with PhD's are better than ****ing everyone else?

Cavehill Red

craggles wrote: »

Does this mean people with PhD's are better than ****ing everyone else?

That's DOCTOR 'Better than everyone else' to you.

panda100

Completely agree with everything Poor Crathur(luv the name!) is saying.

I studied medicine in UCD, dropped out after 4 and a half years of the study. It wasn't challenging for me in any way, and was just learning huge lists off and having to remember different symptoms and different diseases.
There was plenty of thick people in my class, who I wouldn't class at all as intelligent. They just had very good memories and were 100% dedicated and focussed.

Modern education is not about intelligence and showing originality, ingenuity and creativity. It completely robs you of your ability to think for yourself.

It pisses me off how qualification obsessed our society is.

Poor Craythur

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I'm going into 4th year (science NUIG) and I'm pretty much hearing the same thing..... that 3rd year is much worse than 4th year, god I hope so!!!

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I had the opposite experience. Actually enjoyed third year and found the subjects interesting. I'll never forget the last few months of fourth year. Nearly put me off science.

Well, on my course we specialised in third year, so that year was very very full on, learning all the necessary but sometimes dull material. By fourth year we had most of the theory done so it was mostly just essays and the dissertation.

Poor Craythur

kowloon wrote: »

I'd prefer to see people do what they want and be good at it. It's a shame to see someone with the natural skill to become a master cabinetmaker ending up doing a degree that's meaningless to them and ending up in an equally pointless career because the latter path is seen as more prestigious.

Yes, the upper-class writer Evelyn Waugh was also a cabinet maker.

Since medicine has been mentioned, how many people end up doing it solely because it's a high points course and not because they're suited to being a doctor?

I often wonder this too. A girl I was in school with got an excellent LC but everyone was shocked when she did Arts in Galway. She wanted to do Irish, so why not?