**SPOILERS** Series 6, Episode 1 - "The Impossible Astronaut"

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I the only one who thought that it was

adult River in the Spacesuit. She did say she killed the best man she knew

. Just a thought as I've only watched it the once

aye, I thought that too. very early in the ep she shoots the doctors hat off his head, but when she's shooting at the astronaut as he walks into the lake she can't hit a single part of him? Im pretty sure I heard her say "of course not" after she finished shooting, so maybe she realises?

Doctor DooM

Am I the only who's realised we don't know who's in the spacesuit?

We know who's in the spacesuit in 1969. We don't know who's in it in the modern day.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Am I the only who's realised we don't know who's in the spacesuit?

We know who's in the spacesuit in 1969. We don't know who's in it in the modern day.

well we know it's someone the doctor knows, and knows well enough that it'd be a kind of flat "oh, it's you" reaction rather than a surprised "omg, hi haven't seen you in aaaaaaages" kind of reaction.

DinoRex

It was interesting that River got the Number 2 envelope. Shows he ended up, outside of himself, trusting her most of all in those 200 years.

bren2001

DinoRex wrote: »

It was interesting that River got the Number 2 envelope. Shows he ended up, outside of himself, trusting her most of all in those 200 years.

I also found it interesting that Cantons (or whatever his name is) envelope wasn't opened. Amy and River ripped theres open at the top. His wasn't (granted he could of opened the flap and tucked it back in).

Cormic

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah I read AA Gill's article too - his Dr. Who comments, as well as those made about Game of Thrones, do betray a certain dismissive snobbery about genre TV though.

Does anyone have a link to this article? I cannot find it.

Wibbs

Cormic wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to this article? I cannot find it.

Pay per view on the sunday times website, or the ones in the bin at your local newsagents (in teh culture section). Oul Murdoch doesn't do free media.

Basically he set out his stall that Dr Who has become a sacred cow for the BBC to the degree it's taking needlessly high funding from other areas of their drama output(might be something to that, except BBC wales fund it with co producers, so not so much). That the stories are timid and predictable(I don't agree with him there at all certainly not timid anyway) and that this would all be bad enough if Smith was any good. A few comments along the lines of "he has no discernible residual character" and "it's not that he can't act, it's that he can't can't act" and "Nothing to warm to, nothing to dislike, nothing to empathise with" and "the other cast stand back and deliver his cue, which is the impulse to jerk, gurn and exclaim"(I kinda agree with some of this as I've said in thread, but not to that extent).

Bit of a hatchet job all around, though in the past he was more open to it all and seemed to think Smith might pan out OK and that Tennant wasn't that great: http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article7091587.ece

I think he(and a lesser extent me) is the wrong demographic for the new Doctor. The "spoilers" demographic I suppose. The folks who like the timey wimey puzzles, the slightly "uncool" quieter doctor* He's the interweb scifi nerd Doctor(tm) much more than the previous two(and so is Moffat's writing style). Hey, I'm nerding along here full steam ahead too. :eek::D Even had a long woolie scarf back in the mid 70's long before google... Never went for the floppy hat though.




*and he is pretty uncool. No, fezzes aren't cool, never will be, never were, except to knowing fez wearers *runs faster than a screen direction in an RTD script*

aidan_walsh

Having watched it again, I'm more convinced now that

Amy isn't really pregnant. The way I see it, the way the Silence operate isn't a memory wipe as such, but a memory implant if you will. People don't forget seeing them, the memory is replaced with one where they hadn't seen them.

Its possible therefore that given the implied importance of the Doctor getting the message that its meant as a distraction or misdirection rather than actual truth.

popebenny16

Firstly, thanks to art wolf for clarifying spoilers thing. it was never a problem here before, once the show has aired there is no need for spoilers at all. Sorry for those in sky+ land, but thats the easiest way of doing it. Show is out there folks, the BBC have leaked the entite bloody thing!

As for the show itself, I hope that SM has eased a bit into the writing/showrunning thing a bit more now. Although it is a lot more clever than before, and it does require you to put some more thought into it, I feel that The Impossible Astronaut was not as clever as Pandorica/Big Bang. I think that Moffat has learned from the mistakes of last year when sometimes he allowed his joy at being allowed be the referee overtake him and sometimes he walked off with the match ball as a result.

For me though, and as one who for years decried the way that RTD did series themes and arcs, I find the way Moffat is doing his doesnt work for me either. I cant put my finger on it, maybe its the way that we know it is a big thing and therefore we have to watch it more intently. Donno, must be me. My kids certainly dont have this problem.

Yes, that is the tardis-thingy from the lodger which explains why we have

to suffer that git James Cordon coming back in the penultimate story this autumn. boy cant wait for that.

Having said what I just did, one element of how SM writes still jarrs with me. I have to admit that i am becoming a bit River Song tired now. Ok we get it, but christ sakes Moffat, get on with it. If we dont get answers by 6.45 Saturday I will seriously start getting annoyed, and that is something I never thought I would do. I posted here a few years ago saying I detected certain signs of arrogance and a smart arsed attitude from SM at an interview he gave. I think I am starting to see that seeping into the show, and its all centred around River Song and Amy. When the Doctor admonished the other three for not being at the control panel watching the Doctor being awsome I could not help but think of Moffat saying the very same to the audience. We get it, you are very clever, more than I am, but please get on with the bloody story.

As I said, he showed some signs of self awareness last summer over the Big Bang and the new Daleks (they are only going to be leaders, the old ones were never supposed to be replaced they will come back :rolleyes:) but he has to stop showing off, and telling us at every given moment that he is showing off.

The Doctor getting killed on the beach is not a gripping story for me, sorry. How can it be? Firstly, we are told it happens two hundred years into the Doctors future. Great, we already knew that Doctors spend hundreds of years per regeneration (think we did a thread on that) and that means the companaions get sidelined (from his point of view) a lot, and yeah yeah, that exaplains how he can go round with a talking penguin and all those other companions from the audios and comics whilst supposedly only going round with Peri/Ace/whoever.

But, sorry, its totally robbed of any dramatic import. So, the Doctor dies in 200 hundred years (or maybe he wont) ?? So what. He has to go sometime. I am sure that Rory (who we do forget is really really dead and this Rory is made of plastic)

maybe amy will give birth to Ken or Barbie then

can provide some insight as to keep on going once corpsed in moffatland.

It is actually getting to the point that I look forward more to the stories that are not written by SM. I cant stick yet another hyped up "and nothing will ever be the same again for the doctor and his companions" storyline. Small can be beautiful, and if he pull out another bloody reset button in the Autumn I will write a letter to DWM!!!

I know, this is an odd review. But it has driven me odd. I dont agree with AA Gill (who is probably being goaded by his mate Trevor Eve, who wants more money for him to shout at people on Waking the Dead than on Matt Smith to be funny with people on Who) at all, I think the show is better than ever, I thought that the Chirstmas ep was wonderfull and very sentimental and I like that, and most importantly from the shows pov, my kids are even more into it then ever. This story has a good catch about being in the USA, good monsters and probably a very clever and "life changing" story, its sjust a shame that I cant get past its own self reverence and find it all a bit cold.

The BBC has best cop on, too. Putting it at 6pm is nuts. RTD fought like a cat on catnip to get 7pm. Saying that ah sure sky+ and bbc iplayer makes the viewing overnights irrelevent, but they do not. A few years ago I was crowing here about 10 million plus viewers. Last Saturday night it was 6.5 - lousy for a season opener, and no gimmick like a mid season break to avoid the abyss of summer ratings will help.

Course, if they started in January at 7pm.....

pixelburp

Ive read that the River Song arc will come to a conclusion this half of the series, so it looks like that will get sewn up soon enough, thank goodness. I too am suffering from River Song fatigue. Too much winking & obvious portentous writing abounds!

As for the ratings, it's worth pointing out that the episode did air over Easter, during the best warm, sunny weather UK & Ireland has had all year. I wasn't surprised the ratings were down to be honest.

DinoRex

Yep. I think in general ratings were down on Saturday.

Doctor Who was still the 2nd highest rated programme of the evening behind whatever crappy talent show is going at the moment that would have been in a later time slot.

popebenny16

pixelburp wrote: »

As for the ratings, it's worth pointing out that the episode did air over Easter, during the best warm, sunny weather UK & Ireland has had all year. I wasn't surprised the ratings were down to be honest.

every first ep of who since 2005 has aired on easter saturday .

I agree about the weather, which is the real reason for the mid-summer break (and therefore I dont buy the spin the production office has stuck on it) but I think they should look at starting the show earlier in the year. Who got hammered during last summer, after all, which caused this re-think. Sticking to Easter was also a drawvback in that Easter was as laste as can be this year. Of course moving would be terribly hard to do, given the amount of work involved (they are still finishing off this years stories), but a mid summer break does give them the time to get it organised for 2014.

Aldebaran

popebenny16 wrote: »

I am sure that Rory (who we do forget is really really dead and this Rory is made of plastic)

maybe amy will give birth to Ken or Barbie then

can provide some insight as to keep on going once corpsed in moffatland.

Wait, what? I thought Rory was back to normal as of last season's finale?

Daemos

Aldebaran wrote: »

Wait, what? I thought Rory was back to normal as of last season's finale?

He is

.SONIC.

i missed it, when will it be repeated??

Basq

.SONIC. wrote: »

i missed it, when will it be repeated??

Friday @ 7pm on BBC3.

popebenny16

Daemos wrote: »

He is

I knew someone would say that , just because Rory said at the wedding "I was plastic for 2000 years" does not mean that he isnt now. More to the point, since the Doctor discovered and pressed RTD's old reset button in the Pandorica, how come Rory remembers that at all?? And if he remembers it, why isnt he still plastic? You cannot have one without the other.

Amy remembers the Doctor because he deliberatly planted himself in her memories as he faded away, he did not do that to Rory. Why does he remember him at all, why does he remember he was plastic?

To add to that, Arthur Davrill and Karen Gillen are very definitive in post pandorica interviews that those 2000 years changed Rory, and that he is a different person because of it. Fair enough, he lived for 2000 years he must have read a lot and got out a bit (than again, this is Rory we are talking about, he could have moped like a love sick puppy in a corner for a few millenium), so you would (in fact they expected) him to be a bit clever now. But, nope, not a hint of it. So, in the reset process he went back to old Rory, forgot everything he had done seen and experianced for 2000 years, but remembered he was plastic for 2000 years?

I'm not buying that.

Banjo Fella

popebenny16 wrote: »

Amy remembers the Doctor because he deliberatly planted himself in her memories as he faded away, he did not do that to Rory. Why does he remember him at all, why does he remember he was plastic?

It's possibly because Amy's memories were used as the Pandorica's basis for reconstructing the universe. She spent her entire childhood living with a crack in her wall, with the universe pouring into her unconscious mind, and she also experienced the events of The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang enough to know about Rory being an Auton. So, Rory remembered the Doctor because Amy recalled him from deep within her memories, and he remembered being plastic because Amy conflated her memories of real and Auton Rory.

As for whether or not he's plastic - he's probably not. The Doctor stepped out of the cracks in time to ensure that they'd close fully, thereby erasing himself from history. Now that the cracks in time never happened, the original, real Rory never died, either.

If he was still plastic, he would probably have whipped out that Auton gun-arm of his when he saw the Doctor was in trouble in the most recent episode.

Yahew

popebenny16 wrote: »

Amy remembers the Doctor because he deliberatly planted himself in her memories as he faded away, he did not do that to Rory. Why does he remember him at all, why does he remember he was plastic?
.

I think that there must be some truth to this, and some kind of link between the two universes - I think Moffat is aware of that too, he is generally aware of most things that span series, and arcs.

its not like they have forgotten his past - the doctor ( both doctors) called Rory the Roman when they met him this time. And, Rory was not surprised at being called the Roman, and it was scripted for a reason. If Moffat was aware of some inconsistencies in the last series with regards to what Rory remembers ( and there are always inconsistencies in time travel stories) he wouldn't have brought attention to it here in this first episode. Plus the silence will fall - from last series - may not be what we thought it was.

( which is why I like Moffat - this may mean nothing, or everything. He scatters clues like a good detective write).

ríomhaire

The Doctor took Amy because she had no parents because of the cracks. The Dalek episode would not have made sense if Amy remembered them but she didn't due to the cracks. Amy would be killed by the Angels if the cracks had not erased them and now the cracks never existed so Amy should be dead if that had actually happened. The Van Gogh episode would not have worked if Rory hadn't been erased and neither would plastic Rory in the trap. The fact is that the entire previous series of Doctor Who doesn't make any sense now that the cracks are gone because they didn't happen. Amy and friends remember them having happened but they still didn't happen (like the season finale with Martha and the Master). That is why Rory is not plastic.

popebenny16

ríomhaire wrote: »

The Doctor took Amy because she had no parents because of the cracks. The Dalek episode would not have made sense if Amy remembered them but she didn't due to the cracks. Amy would be killed by the Angels if the cracks had not erased them and now the cracks never existed so Amy should be dead if that had actually happened. The Van Gogh episode would not have worked if Rory hadn't been erased and neither would plastic Rory in the trap. The fact is that the entire previous series of Doctor Who doesn't make any sense now that the cracks are gone because they didn't happen. Amy and friends remember them having happened but they still didn't happen (like the season finale with Martha and the Master). That is why Rory is not plastic.

ah, but if the cracks did not happen, and rory did not die, and he was not plastic, then how did they meet the doctor in the first place because there were no cracks so why are they there now?

And, as has been pointed out, he remembers being a roman, ergo he rememebrs the two thousand years, therefore he should be plastic, and if he isnt he should not remember at all, but he does.

As for the entire last season not happening, well to be honest, that never actually struck me till you pointed that out. Still, at least it gives them an exit door for the new Daleks.....

pixelburp

Ted, I'm hugely confused.

nicowa

pixelburp wrote: »

Above all else, I think the Doctor had become too powerful & too knowing of his power. This episode seemed to sow a seed that the Doctor's not without faults and weaknesses, and he knows it. I suspect the Silence will see to it that the two-parter leaves us knowing that the Doctor is once again a very vulnerable individual. Without resorting to RTD-style melodrama.

Actually I thought Smiths time for showing his faults was in the second episode where it was Amy who figured it all out cos he was too busy giving out to people to really think about it all.

popebenny16 wrote: »

I knew someone would say that , just because Rory said at the wedding "I was plastic for 2000 years" does not mean that he isnt now. More to the point, since the Doctor discovered and pressed RTD's old reset button in the Pandorica, how come Rory remembers that at all?? And if he remembers it, why isnt he still plastic? You cannot have one without the other.

Amy remembers the Doctor because he deliberatly planted himself in her memories as he faded away, he did not do that to Rory. Why does he remember him at all, why does he remember he was plastic?

My idea on it all: all the storylines that took place in the Crack!Verse never happened. But the people who remembered are the people who travelled with the Doctor during that time. They saw the Crack for what it was and had been affected by it during the time it was spreading. The Doctor implanted the memory in Amy's mind so she could remember by herself. Rory remembered because he had Amy as a catalyst. (River could have come back from any point in the future when she remembered - she could have remembered in the future because Amy remembered in the Past. It's Time Travel).

Therefore Rory remembers being plastic and living for 2000 years, but isn't plastic because it never actually happened. If it had happened Amy wouldn't have parents in this time line.

The Angels might still exist out there somewhere...

Yahew

Gosh the whole last series was like bloody Dallas.

pixelburp

nicowa wrote: »

Actually I thought Smiths time for showing his faults was in the second episode where it was Amy who figured it all out cos he was too busy giving out to people to really think about it all.

True enough, but that seemed more like the "honeymoon is over" episode where we / Amy learns that the Doctor isn't all sunshine and zaniness.

From all that I read of the new series, and what I've seen so far in episode 1, there was a conscious attempt to take The Doctor's power-trips down a notch, and put back some of the vulnerability. In episode 1, the aliens have already won - Earth has been in their control for some time now. The Doctor's clearly on a short leash with the FBI & it looks like his relationship with his friends is straining a little too.