Problem with silicone seal in shower and grout

Benincasa

I am a total novice at DIY, so please forgive me in asking this question which I'm sure for some of you is so basic!!

There was a crack in the silicone seal at the bottom of my shower tray so I decided to replace it. Some people told me that it may just have been a surface crack but I didn't want to take a chance on that.

Here are my questions:

1. I have found it quite difficult to remove all of the old caulk/silicone. Do I just keep scraping at it or is there some product I can use to make the process easier? If there is a product, will this interact negatively with the new silicone that i will apply?

2. In some places some of the grout at the bottom of the tiles has also come lose along with the silicone. I don't know if it was a bit loose to begin with or whether I cut too enthusiastically. I have attached a photo of this. As you can see, there is a reasonably large gap between the shower tray and the tiles along half the length of the shower tray. The gap is maybe 1cm or so? (Hard to tell with the nakes eye). Do I need to firstly fill the gap with new grout or is new silicone sufficient to fill this gap safely?

3.Either way, do I need to remove the rest of the grout along the length of the shower tray?

Apologies for these novice questions!!

Joey the lips

Thats cool. Just scrape all the silicone away with a stanley blade and re do it. If some of the grout comes away near the edge just fill it with silicone. When you squart the bead of silicone from the tube have a glass of water and washing up liquid and dip your finger as you rub it along it gives a smoother finish.

mad m

Also don't buy the cheap white silicone, get Tec 7 or there is a bathroom one that is recommended for power showers/bathrooms.

Joey the lips

mad m wrote: »

Also don't buy the cheap white silicone, get Tec 7 or there is a bathroom one that is recommended for power showers/bathrooms.

I agree but i dont think tec 7 contains a fungacide suitable for bathroom use, does it?

Anyway another problem is most of the silicones are cheap now so what to buy.


The geocel brand in woodies for bathrooms is good quality

outside that the evo brand is good as well.

I am sure you will get other suggestions.

cram1971

Hi

To try and do a neat job try the following steps

Try and remove as much of the old silicone as possible you can scrap as much as you can with a blade those blades you get with the metal backs in chemists are good and you can use a silicone remover to remove any trace amounts


Next step is the most important step, dry the area as much as possible use a hairdryer and paper towels

To reseal first mask out about 4 to 5 mm on shower try and on tiles run your bead of new good quality bathroom silicone in and smooth off with your finger dipped in some soapy water

Remove the tape before the silicone starts to cure

There are some good youtube videos

antiskeptic

Joey the lips wrote: »

I agree but i dont think tec 7 contains a fungacide suitable for bathroom use, does it?

Whilst it's brilliant stuff in the main, I can't say I'm pleased with the result around my bath. It hasn't so much mildewed as gone nicotine yellow - within a week of application.

Resend

Benincasa wrote: »

I am a total novice at DIY, so please forgive me in asking this question which I'm sure for some of you is so basic!!

There was a crack in the silicone seal at the bottom of my shower tray so I decided to replace it. Some people told me that it may just have been a surface crack but I didn't want to take a chance on that.

Here are my questions:

1. I have found it quite difficult to remove all of the old caulk/silicone. Do I just keep scraping at it or is there some product I can use to make the process easier? If there is a product, will this interact negatively with the new silicone that i will apply?

2. In some places some of the grout at the bottom of the tiles has also come lose along with the silicone. I don't know if it was a bit loose to begin with or whether I cut too enthusiastically. I have attached a photo of this. As you can see, there is a reasonably large gap between the shower tray and the tiles along half the length of the shower tray. The gap is maybe 1cm or so? (Hard to tell with the nakes eye). Do I need to firstly fill the gap with new grout or is new silicone sufficient to fill this gap safely?

3.Either way, do I need to remove the rest of the grout along the length of the shower tray?

Apologies for these novice questions!!

you can get a product to remove silicone at woodies, cannot remember the name of it

slimjimmc

Resend wrote: »

you can get a product to remove silicone at woodies, cannot remember the name of it

This ?

Resend

slimjimmc wrote: »

This ?

think thats it yes. never used it

brendankelly

From what I can see the person that did the tiling ""forgot"" to put in the seal that fits over the shower tray and under/behind the tiles.

If this is the case you have 2 options.
1 Take off the bottom row of tiles and put in the seal strip which would be the permanent solution or
2 Patch it up with silly cone and hope for the best. At best a 2 year solution

Joey the lips

The product for removing silicone is called silicone remover. I use to import it. Its not very good. Old fashioned stanley blade works best. Then use silicone remover for the finish.

brendankelly wrote: »

From what I can see the person that did the tiling ""forgot"" to put in the seal that fits over the shower tray and under/behind the tiles.

If this is the case you have 2 options.
1 Take off the bottom row of tiles and put in the seal strip which would be the permanent solution or
2 Patch it up with silly cone and hope for the best. At best a 2 year solution

I dont agree with you tbh. I never used seals unless asked. They go yellow after a while and look awful

You dont need to use the shower tray seal. In fact a good job will not need it. As for the seal lasting 2 years. I dont agree either. Where 2 walls meet you cannot use this seal on the vertical so you have no other choice but to use silicone because there is too much movement in grout.

The reason silicone fails is because it is not applied propperly or is cleaned to aggressivly later.

If you inspect the shower every now and again you will notice the silicone seperating from the tile. This is the early days of failure. You can re pack it with clear and it will hold fine or you can replace it all. I generally just re pack mine. It does not happen often.

Additional senseable precautions can also be taken, upstand trays or classi seal can be used.

Spread

If the shower is on a timber floor, put a couple of bags of sand into the tray before doing the silicone and leave in situ for 24 hours. This will help stop the tray/silicone from separating at a later date.

brendankelly

Joey, The difference between you and most on this list including myself and the guy that did this job is that you know your job and we do not. You know the proper silicone and the proper conditions for it to work etc. I have great respect for DIY /self build people but this needs to be sealed properly and the OP (I suspect) is planning on doing it himself/herself and their best chance of success is with the plastic seal. I agree with you that if done properly with the right material and the right conditions the silicone would work but if it is not done properly and the shower is on the first floor the OP might not notice the leak until they see a drip in the ceiling and at that stage it is a major job to repair.

My bet would be that the guy that did the tiling in the picture was a cowboy that had worked with a real tiler for a few weeks.

Joey the lips

brendankelly wrote: »

Joey, The difference between you and most on this list including myself and the guy that did this job is that you know your job and we do not. You know the proper silicone and the proper conditions for it to work etc. I have great respect for DIY /self build people but this needs to be sealed properly and the OP (I suspect) is planning on doing it himself/herself and their best chance of success is with the plastic seal. I agree with you that if done properly with the right material and the right conditions the silicone would work but if it is not done properly and the shower is on the first floor the OP might not notice the leak until they see a drip in the ceiling and at that stage it is a major job to repair.

My bet would be that the guy that did the tiling in the picture was a cowboy that had worked with a real tiler for a few weeks.

This may be the case but all the work your proposing is unnecessary.

Also a bath seal can be stuck on quite adaquatly from the outside without taking off tiles and it will have the same apperence but will be easier to chance should it discolour in the future

brendankelly

The OP has 4 options.

1 Get a professional to seal it with silicone.
2 Seal it with silicone themselves.
3 Use the seal without taking off the tiles.
4 Take off the tiles and use that seal.

I would think it is an insurance job (that my insurance is part paying for) and I would love to know which option they select.

muffler

brendankelly wrote: »

I would think it is an insurance job (that my insurance is part paying for)

Why on earth would you think this? You're being disrespectful to the OP here.

brendankelly

I did not intend to be disrespectful I assure you and the OP.
I suspect it is an insurance job because most of these jobs are insurance jobs. I believe people are right to claim on these jobs because that is what insurance is for. My insurance is going up and up despite the fact that no one ever claimed against me and I was told that the rise was to cover people that were not insured. I am a bit annoyed with people with no insurance doing bad jobs but this does not apply to the OP. I think it would be more disrespectful to the OP not to think it was an insurance job. I apologise if offence was taken

Joey the lips

From experience insurence is dodgy in this area. It will not pay out for this job and if it does its usually only remedial action like take off the bottom layer and replace with odd looking tiles.

Unless there is specific damage this is an easy repair being made very difficult by bringing in insurence claims.

Just my opinion.

Avns1s

brendankelly wrote: »

I did not intend to be disrespectful I assure you and the OP.
I suspect it is an insurance job because most of these jobs are insurance jobs. I believe people are right to claim on these jobs because that is what insurance is for. My insurance is going up and up despite the fact that no one ever claimed against me and I was told that the rise was to cover people that were not insured. I am a bit annoyed with people with no insurance doing bad jobs but this does not apply to the OP. I think it would be more disrespectful to the OP not to think it was an insurance job. I apologise if offence was taken

What on earth are you on about??

Have you heard about an "excess" on an insurance policy and about what might actually be covered in a normal policy?

tommytee

I have seen this before, and i would recommend Sealux N silicone , its a very good quality silicone, yep not all silicones are equal. its well respected within the trade.
You should have an upstand seal behind tiles, although some of the shabby workmanship I've seen I wouldnt be surprised if there isnt one.
You could also opt for an over-tile trim like Sealux Reg 15 i.e. without having to remove the tiles, it might'nt look as good as a behind tile trim/seal but it will do the job and stop leaks.

Try Shower seals Direct , they do a full range of sealux stuff,
good luck
Tommytee