Am I entitled to a full refund on my Iphone over Apples privacy issue breach?

Run_to_da_hills

Apple could be facing scrutiny from data protection groups across Europe after it was discovered that some of its devices log a user’s location and store it on the phone.

The feature, which is included in Apple’s 3G-enabled devices running the fourth generation of its iPhone operating system (iOS4), keeps a record of the phone’s latitude and longitude, along with the time of the visit. The data is stored in a file hidden on the handset. The file is then transferred to a user’s PC or Mac when the device is connected and synched through Apple’s iTunes software.

Because the information appears to be compiled using information from mobile phone masts rather than the device’s GPS capability, it cannot be switched off as long as the phone is receiving a network signal.

Such information is usually only accessible to mobile networks or to police forces if they obtain a court order.

However, the function opens up the possibility that the file could be accessed by a third party and a user’s movements could be monitored.

When I purchased my Iphone handset I was not informed of the above, it was not mentioned in my contract, or anywhere in my Iphone manual, I feel now that this is a blatant invasion of privacy.

I am aware that the authorities can get access to cell site analysis and check coordinates under a court order if they suspect crime or terrorist activities but Apple have no business holding on to my records with the possibility of passing them on to a third party.

Am I entitled to hand my Iphone back to my service provider and get a full refund?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0422/1224295253808.html

brightspark

Did you agree to using iTunes?

according to the Guardian

Apple can legitimately claim that it has permission to collect the data: near the end of the 15,200-word terms and conditions for its iTunes program, used to synchronise with iPhones, iPods and iPads, is an 86-word paragraph about "location-based services".

It says that "Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device. This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. For example, we may share geographic location with application providers when you opt in to their location services."

Run_to_da_hills

brightspark wrote: »

Did you agree to using iTunes?

according to the Guardian

I would have thought that the collection of data would have been related to ITunes only and not to be used / passed on to other (third party) purposes.

Paulw

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Am I entitled to hand my Iphone back to my service provider and get a full refund?

I doubt you are. The service provider is simply providing a service. The fact that data is collected on your phone is not due to the service provider but is due to Apple.

If anything, you might be able to take a privacy/data protection case against Apple, but this is nothing to do with the service provider.

The service provider is not collecting data from your phone nor are they using the data your phone is collecting, so I can't see how they could be in breach of contract.

Sponge Bob

They offer no location based services in Ireland and therefore they should not collect data until they do. Their T&Cs may then cover them. I reckon an Irish Judge in the SCC would allow a full refund no matter what their longwinded T&Cs say.

Tell the iphone retailer to cough up or you will see them in court!

freeze4real

OP apple doesn't hive a toss about were you are or will be going to.


You and I are just one among millions of people with an iPhone.

If you are seriously thinking if returning this all I can say is you're missing out on a wonder piece of sophisticated device.

ZENER

Don't the mobile operators keep a log of which cells you were using on their network anyway ? The Gardai can request this info in the course of an investigation. Don't really see the difference ! How long before the operators begin to use your location to target you with geographically relevant advertising ?!

Ken

Del2005

ZENER wrote: »

Don't the mobile operators keep a log of which cells you were using on their network anyway ?

By EU law for up to 5 years. Different matter when a company decides to do it for it's own uses.

With all the trouble Google got into for collecting data, from stupid people, I can't wait to see how this turns out against Apple.

drunkmonkey

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Tell the iphone retailer to cough up or you will see them in court!

Best of luck with that one Bob:rolleyes:

People have trouble enough handing back a broken iphone for repair, not a hope they'd give back a working one.

BrianD

brightspark wrote: »

Did you agree to using iTunes?

according to the Guardian

The point is that people didn't opt-in. It was stored anyway without the users consent or knowledge.

The Data Commissioner seems to be of the opinion that the clause quoted is defficient.

Ste.phen

If the iPhone stores a log of your location history, and doesn't share that with anyone (but you can access it yourself by syncing with iTunes), is 'Apple' recording your data, or are 'you' recording your data?

What if i replace the words 'location history' with 'text messages'?

Del2005

Ste.phen wrote: »

If the iPhone stores a log of your location history, and doesn't share that with anyone (but you can access it yourself by syncing with iTunes), is 'Apple' recording your data, or are 'you' recording your data?

What if i replace the words 'location history' with 'text messages'?

I know where my test messages are and I delete any I don't want.

My location is in a hidden folder on my phone and when I sync it goes to a hidden folder. I never asked for my location to be saved, and who has ever read the full T&Cs. Apple are also using a very vague line in the T&Cs as your agreeing to them taking it.

Also if Apple have no use for it why does it sync?

killbillvol2

Del2005 wrote: »

I know where my test messages are and I delete any I don't want.

My location is in a hidden folder on my phone and when I sync it goes to a hidden folder. I never asked for my location to be saved, and who has ever read the full T&Cs. Apple are also using a very vague line in the T&Cs as your agreeing to them taking it.

Also if Apple have no use for it why does it sync?

True, but not a valid argument. When you accept the T&Cs you're declaring that you've read them.

drunkmonkey

killbillvol2 wrote: »

True, but not a valid argument. When you accept the T&Cs you're declaring that you've read them.

True but when you buy an iPhone you don't sign or agree to the T's & C's until you get home and plug the phone into iTunes. Only then do you get to see the T's & C's.
If you don't agree to the T's & C's you can never get the phone working, are you then entitled to return the phone to the store even though there's no fault with it only your disagreement with the T's & C's.

Another point on the T's & C's, once you agree to them your also accepting the one year warranty even though I'm pretty sure all mobile phones sold in the EU must carry a 2yr warranty.

killbillvol2

drunkmonkey wrote: »

True but when you buy an iPhone you don't sign or agree to the T's & C's until you get home and plug the phone into iTunes. Only then do you get to see the T's & C's.
If you don't agree to the T's & C's you can never get the phone working, are you then entitled to return the phone to the store even though there's no fault with it only your disagreement with the T's & C's.

Another point on the T's & C's, once you agree to them your also accepting the one year warranty even though I'm pretty sure all mobile phones sold in the EU must carry a 2yr warranty.

Don't know and not relevant to me anyway. I have an aversion to Apple and all the crap that goes with it, especially itunes.

slimjimmc

drunkmonkey wrote: »

True but when you buy an iPhone you don't sign or agree to the T's & C's until you get home and plug the phone into iTunes. Only then do you get to see the T's & C's.
If you don't agree to the T's & C's you can never get the phone working, are you then entitled to return the phone to the store even though there's no fault with it only your disagreement with the T's & C's.

Another point on the T's & C's, once you agree to them your also accepting the one year warranty even though I'm pretty sure all mobile phones sold in the EU must carry a 2yr warranty.

A warranty is simply a bonus offered at the discretion of the manufacturer or retailer and is in addition to your statutory rights. There are no compulsory warranties of any duration in the EU. You may be confusing warranties with statutory consumer rights which in some jurisdictions are limited to 2 years, Ireland does not place any such time limit on consumer rights.

BrianD

There is a EU directive for a 2 year warranty but it doesn't seem to have adopted by all countries yet.

One year would be the standard.

Carlow52

Ste.phen wrote: »

If the iPhone stores a log of your location history, and doesn't share that with anyone (but you can access it yourself by syncing with iTunes), is 'Apple' recording your data, or are 'you' recording your data?

What if i replace the words 'location history' with 'text messages'?

the data file is collected from the desktop every time you fire up iTunes: the real value is that for folk with i[pads fones and pods] Apple can track where each piece has been.

The scarier one for corporate supplied kit is that the employer now has the log file

slimjimmc

BrianD wrote: »

There is a EU directive for a 2 year warranty but it doesn't seem to have adopted by all countries yet.

One year would be the standard.

Got a link to this directive on warranties?

There is an EU directive which requires that all states provide certain levels of consumer protection (not a warranty) for at least 2 years. Some countries have set their laws to the bare minimum 2 yrs, Ireland hasn't imposed a maximum time limit as our statue of limitations allows a claim up to 6yrs later.

Del2005

killbillvol2 wrote: »

True, but not a valid argument. When you accept the T&Cs you're declaring that you've read them.

So you read the T&Cs and realised that the line that said they will use location based services allows them to store and transfer them to a different device? To me location based services means that my phone knows where I am and does searches based on that, not saving all my movements onto a secret file and then syncing it to a secret file on my computer.

Which then brings us back to the original post. You don't get to see the T&Cs till you bring the phone home, unpack it and install it. You can't bring the phone back for a change of mind, the phone works fine, but it's services don't work without itunes. The retailer has provided you with a phone, if you don't agree to the T&Cs Apple don't provide any iPhone services. You're contract with the retailer is still valid but you don't have the full use of the phone due to Apple.