WHAT ABOUT MAH LEGS, CHARLIE MURPHY??!!

Scuba Ste

Did you get a diagnosis on your shoulders?

The biggest difference I found in improving mine was foam rolling regularly and scap stability work with heavier pulling (pull ups and inverted/bb rows) after the stability improved.

I went out to IP and Will had me doing the scap pushup/pull up/OH shrug/Inv row circuit and band pull aparts. I did some mobility work on top of that as a warm up. Made a big difference for me, I still do it 1-2 times a week.

Edwardius

Scuba Ste wrote: »

Did you get a diagnosis on your shoulders?

The biggest difference I found in improving mine was foam rolling regularly and scap stability work with heavier pulling (pull ups and inverted/bb rows) after the stability improved.

I went out to IP and Will had me doing the scap pushup/pull up/OH shrug/Inv row circuit and band pull aparts. I did some mobility work on top of that as a warm up. Made a big difference for me, I still do it 1-2 times a week.

Hey man, thanks for the post, I'm gonna ramble now

I got a kind of hand-wavy type diagnosis from a PT. In the first session I'd explained where the pain was and what movements caused it, he took a look at both shoulders and went through a bunch of diagnostic tests for impingements and the like. I got a kind of a "postural" diagnosis more than anything else where my right scap was elevated and protracted, the left was also, but to a lesser extent. I think something was said about the supraspinatus the second time I was there and I had some tissue work done. There was talk of a referral for an arthrogram but I was just given more stuff to do, which screwed things up more for a month or so. So basically, I've seen someone about it, he identified some problems but not the problem.

I've been doing inverted rows on rings, some fairly tentative ring supports scap pullups and scap pushups along with some of the band exercises that don't cause it to flare up (pullaparts, face pulls), soft tissue work on the supraspinatus and some IP style stuff which I may or may not have stolen from your log :P and it genuinely seems to have improved the positioning and I can feel more space between the humeral head and the acromium but there's still some irritation/possibly some scar tissue in there. It seems to be clearing out a bit bit I reckon I could do with talking to someone else about it and maybe getting a scan of some sort

I'm going to call into a different physio this week to see if I can get a different diagnosis though (not hatin' on the original one as he's a smart dude, but realistically things should heal faster and the rehab stuff may have been appropriate, but the loading made things worse, and it's a trek). Think I'll just wander in and say "me shoulder's sore" and let them figure it out rather than rambling at them.

I still think it's either subacromial bursitis or impingement of the supraspinatus which stemmed from the elevated and protracted scaps. It's worse on the right side and that's the one that had more of the postural issues. There's a bunch of hypermobility and stability issues too.

I could be spectacularly wrong though!

Did you get yours diagnosed or did you just keep doing the stability/mobility/pulling stuff until matters improved?

Scuba Ste

I got it diagnosed originally by a physio but I didn't see much improvement. I was told it was an imbalance between my upper and lower traps, lower being weaker and I was given some basic rehab exercises like scap push ups, scap pull ups (on a lat pulldown), Y's etc. I did that for a while but it actually got worse, snatching wasn't too bad but I couldn't jerk or press at all.

After I went to IP I did more foam rolling, mobility and stability stuff just trying to find what hurt and what helped and then did the main programs while maintaining the stability work. I think improving the stability in different planes, getting stronger pulling and core work helped most along with the conditioning circuits. After a couple of months my shoulders had improved a lot. I don't do too much conditioning anymore but I still do the other stuff and any time I feel like my shoulders are suffering I do more of the above and it feels better (probably shouldn't let it slip in the first place).

I still get some minor pain but considering I put things overhead every session I think I'll have to live with that.

Edwardius

Yeah I'd say I'm not too far off snatching decent weights again but any narrowish grip overhead stuff is still out, I've done some jerks recently but only with a fairly wide hand spacing and they're still funky. Ys and the like don't tend to bother it too much but external rotation stuff with bands = back to square one.

You're right though, stability+pulling+mobility stuff will give things the best possible chance to clear up. I'll see if I can wing the stability stuff, I was thinking of various ring supports and light getups, maybe pressups on something unstable? I'm still gonna check in with another physio to see if he can spot anything (and I've kinda been browbeaten into it too :P). I'll have to make sure to stay on top of all that stuff when things are "fixed".

I'm not doing any conditioning though (well, if there's no stopwatch I might consider it)!

gstack

Just to chip in a couple of months ago my left shoulder was in absolute bits , when I snatched the bar ended up uneven my left shoulder was noticeably higher and the lower I caught the snatch the more my torso tended to twist
I did a lot of shoulder rehab work which helped my shoulders cope with the un natural positions but did nothing to stop them ocurring
Then it was pointed out to me if I snatched above parallel my torso didnt twist and the bar was even .

So the problems in my shoulders were really caused by very tight hip flexors and Psoas muscle which is taking forever to loosen up

Could be worth looking elsewhere other than shoulders for the root of the problem.

Edwardius

gstack wrote: »

Could be worth looking elsewhere other than shoulders for the root of the problem.

Damn it, this is too complicated! Think I'm in above me head at this stage.

anyway, Heute:

frontal squat:
triples up to 90 I think
singles 95, 105, 112(f), 90-100-107

monday's discovery still stands anyway, these were good. descended too slowly on 112. lost position a bit on 107 so packed it in

Sumos:
up to 120x3

pendlays:

10x50 8x70 5x80 3x90 1x100 2x100

erm, wanted to see if I could row 100kg

I-rows: 35 reps total using a bar. normally use rings for these and found it hard to touch at the top using the bar.

dip shrugs, t-spine stretches

Was knackered before, during and after this session. I've opened some space between the humeral head and whatever it was crashing into over the last while.

Burkatron

Dead Ed wrote: »

Yeah I'd say I'm not too far off snatching decent weights again but any narrowish grip overhead stuff is still out, I've done some jerks recently but only with a fairly wide hand spacing and they're still funky. Ys and the like don't tend to bother it too much but external rotation stuff with bands = back to square one.

You're right though, stability+pulling+mobility stuff will give things the best possible chance to clear up. I'll see if I can wing the stability stuff, I was thinking of various ring supports and light getups, maybe pressups on something unstable? I'm still gonna check in with another physio to see if he can spot anything (and I've kinda been browbeaten into it too :P). I'll have to make sure to stay on top of all that stuff when things are "fixed".

I'm not doing any conditioning though (well, if there's no stopwatch I might consider it)!

Ed just having a read of this & the bold bit stood out to me! Did your Physio check your subscapularis? Did they do any work through your armpit onto it?? It's an absolute ****er of a muscle which can give false positives on other rotator cuff muscles. Alot of practitioners neglect (scarily in some cases don't know how) to check it!

Edit: ****ing exams & studying has me thinking about injury scenarios nonstop! You should also focus on your lats as trigger points there can cause the same shiz as Subscap

(Subscap trigger point referral pain image
Lats
I'm not gonna keep linking these....Seen as you're having external rotation issues the other 2 ****ers trigger pint wise could be Teres & Pec Major
Foam roll/Hockey ball & stretch them!!

gstack wrote: »

Just to chip in a couple of months ago my left shoulder was in absolute bits , when I snatched the bar ended up uneven my left shoulder was noticeably higher and the lower I caught the snatch the more my torso tended to twist
I did a lot of shoulder rehab work which helped my shoulders cope with the un natural positions but did nothing to stop them ocurring
Then it was pointed out to me if I snatched above parallel my torso didnt twist and the bar was even .

So the problems in my shoulders were really caused by very tight hip flexors and Psoas muscle which is taking forever to loosen up

Could be worth looking elsewhere other than shoulders for the root of the problem.

This is also a great shout. Have a read on form & force closure! Your problem could be coming lower down in the kinetic chain! Simple way to investigate is to do a standing active shoulder ROM test & note the results! Then get someone to push your pelvis either side so lateral to medial & retest! If there's improvement there its your pelvis/si thats causing the issue (force closure)

Form closure is a bit more complicated so you'd need somone trained to have a look at this!

These are just what stands out to me from the brief reading of your log I've done...I could be waaaay off!

token

Gettin' all educated n sh*t in this log.

Edwardius

Burkatron wrote: »

Ed just having a read of this & the bold bit stood out to me! Did your Physio check your subscapularis? Did they do any work through your armpit onto it?? It's an absolute ****er of a muscle which can give false positives on other rotator cuff muscles. Alot of practitioners neglect (scarily in some cases don't know how) to check it!

Edit: ****ing exams & studying has me thinking about injury scenarios nonstop! You should also focus on your lats as trigger points there can cause the same shiz as Subscap

(Subscap trigger point referral pain image
Lats
I'm not gonna keep linking these....Seen as you're having external rotation issues the other 2 ****ers trigger pint wise could be Teres & Pec Major
Foam roll/Hockey ball & stretch them!!




This is also a great shout. Have a read on form & force closure! Your problem could be coming lower down in the kinetic chain! Simple way to investigate is to do a standing active shoulder ROM test & note the results! Then get someone to push your pelvis either side so lateral to medial & retest! If there's improvement there its your pelvis/si thats causing the issue (force closure)

Form closure is a bit more complicated so you'd need somone trained to have a look at this!

These are just what stands out to me from the brief reading of your log I've done...I could be waaaay off!

How's it goin man? Thanks for the input!
He did some work on the subscap, it was like a bone as far as I can remember. I'd forgotten about the bloody thing. I need to save all this stuff somewhere. Lats and Teres major are probably tight too as I used to do stupid amounts of pullups.

There could be something coming from the hips too. I used to almost "good morning" my snatch recovery (amongst other things) a year or so ago which was incredibly smart! There's probably something else in there too.

Thanks again lads

gstack

invoice is in the post Ed

Burkatron

Dead Ed wrote: »

How's it goin man? Thanks for the input!
He did some work on the subscap, it was like a bone as far as I can remember. I'd forgotten about the bloody thing. I need to save all this stuff somewhere. Lats and Teres major are probably tight too as I used to do stupid amounts of pullups.

There could be something coming from the hips too. I used to almost "good morning" my snatch recovery (amongst other things) a year or so ago which was incredibly smart! There's probably something else in there too.

Thanks again lads

I'm good dude, just finished up the NMT cert & have decided to go on & do the HDip, I must be mental! Gonna have to actually start studying & pushing for business to justify it! :eek::eek:

I savaged my shoulder doing kipping pullups during the summer after a bulk! I stopped training so never did a cut & got fat! Spectacular! I'm only at a respectable size again The shoulder put my training right back to square 1 so I know how you feel! Good times!!

Edwardius

Good stuff, that's serious cash, probably worth it in the long run though.

Yeah, injuries and losing momentum both suck, something could be said for being fat though, gotta keep warm and those organs need protecting y'know?!

Edwardius

ok, spent half an age snatching up to 70kg, first not great, second better, no real pain. Good.

Clean+fs: up to 85, heavy, cleaned 90 for a single, wasn't arsed doing any more and was hitting crappy positions, shoulda warmed up more.

Back squatted 100, 105, 110, 115 for triples, started losing position on the last set so capped it there.

walked out 160, sumo pulled all of 110 for a triple, didn't feel like any more. did some weird dynamic plank thing with 50kg, going from elbows to pushup position. Might try it with less weight next time. Knackered.

Edwardius

"tea training, you know when you train heavy? it's like a big dinner. You're eating lots but sweating, it's hard. Tea training is like little bits after dinner you sip your tea, it's easy" -some lad in ye olde gymnasium

Gunz
Core (rollouts 3x8)
I-row 3x8 on rings, made sure to squeeze at the top
overhead band rotation things
split squats, 3x10x27kg (dumbells this time, I think they're better for these)
single leg deads 3x8x22kg

Assistance is boring.

Gonna have x-rated fun times with a hockey ball now.

Edwardius

Bleh, did some overhead squats up to 40 for a couple sets of five with the wider grip.
Cleaned up to 95 for a tough enough single, did 5 singles at 86.

Back squatz:
2x90, 1x100, 1x110, 1x115, 1x120, (+belt&wrapz) 3x120, some more singles on the way down.

Using the hips properly for most sets. Too lazy to do anything else. Some rehab crap to do but I'll get to it tomorrow.

howtomake

You know how you have a dodgy shoulder... well apparently I'm not lowering the weight correctly on rack jerks, my dodgy shoulder is f*cked. Tommy's tried to show me the way to lower it properly (a bit late in the game though), but he doesn't quite get my shoulder issues. I literally can't move my shoulder today. Anyway any advice on lowering the damn thing would be most appreciated.:D

Edwardius

You need to let it drop down to the shoulders and soften the impact with your knees. Check Koklyaev.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXXszjlqxhI

You'll need to practice it though, the timing can be a little awkward and it's hard not to lower it slowly. Ideally we'd have jerk blocks in the gym but apparently they're "too loud" so they won't be bought. you could just drop the thing to the ground and have someone power clean it either!

howtomake

Ok thanks! I think I'll practice that on the empty bar first. Or maybe with a broom:D

Edwardius

howtomake wrote: »

Ok thanks! I think I'll practice that on the empty bar first. Or maybe with a broom:D

I'd recommend practicing it with 200kg :P

howtomake

Dead Ed wrote: »

I'd recommend practicing it with 200kg :P

Better yet, you can stand on a bench and drop the 200kg bar on me, 45kg will feel so light after that. Everything is relative. And its all about adaptation.

Edwardius

Absolutely. I think I'll try that with my squat too, 170kg will be manageable if I overload the muscles by dropping a shipping container on my back. I think we're onto something here.

Edwardius

I should probably do some work

Edwardius

snatched 70 for three or four singles. Got some advice about the start position. shoulder ok, did a load of work on the outer muscles and shoved a brush handle into the subscap for a while yesterday.

front squatted 108 for a single, missed 112, went to 100 to triple but failed the 2nd. Strange. something wasn't firing properly

deadlifted 140 for a few singles, both normal and sumo style. Think the conventional is easier so I'll roll with that for the 10th. Still don't feel comfortable deadlifting although I'm using fairly high heels on the liftin shoes so that's probably a factor. I'll try pulling without them soon.

bench: was gonna feel it out and did 60 for three but felt like I was gonna hurt something.

basically I think I might be able to snatch something and squat something for the club champs, both will be **** but not as **** as the bench, dl and clean and jerk.

Edwardius

Yeah so lifted some weights after coaching another national record :P

One arm snatched up to 45, was gonna take a shot at 50 but got distracted by something shiny

Far too many toys in the warmup room, most noticeable of which was the 20ft climbing rope. Wanted to see if I was still all elite and **** so climbed the thing using the arms only, things appear less intelligent when fatigue sets in at the top.

Messed around with some continental cleans, think I got to 80 or something, the axle had no knurling and I'm not fat enough so heavier weights slipped down. Did some jerks and they didn't hurt, happy days. Didn't snatch the axle, only thought about it there now.

Squattage (in flat shoes)
up to 125x1, then one set of 10 at 100, hmmm, feel stronger in flat shoes, hit up some pints in the all-important post-training booze window as my musclez were crying out for the naughty nutrient.

token

It was like watching a kid let loose in a toy store

Edwardius

Snatcheth up to 70 again, very easy and solid. No pain in the right shoulder. Acquired a pretty bad headache in the left subscap (any sort of resisted internal rotation pisses it off, it's under the armpit and the muscle is stretched when catchin' a snatch, it's kinda nice to be able to pin something down for a change!). I'll see what it's like in the morning anyway

squatted up to 130 for a single, handy.

Soooo, if I haven't destroyed anything too badly, I'm going to open with 75 on the snatch and 130 on the squat, dunno about the three other things I'm supposed to do. If the strain is bad then I'm just gonna squat and get drunk.

token

Dead Ed wrote: »

If the strain is bad then I'm just gonna squat and get drunk.

Same as most weeks then? /neg

Edwardius

Why are you straight-edged, clean living teatotallers so goddamn sanctimonious?

howtomake

Dead Ed wrote: »

Acquired a pretty bad headache in the left subscap (any sort of resisted internal rotation pisses it off

Was trying to give you some shoulder-sympathy when you were telling me that, but ya know meany Tommy

Edwardius

Right, lifted at the club champs yesterday, warmed up to 70 on the snatch without too much fuss, opened at 75, overpulled the **** out of it and threw it behind, made it on the second attempt, called 79 for the third but the new injury was starting to flare up and I also underpulled it and left it out front. Clean and jerked up to 80 in the warmup and things started gettin sore. Opened at 85 and left it there. Happy enough I totalled though.

Did the squat portion of the PL comp (high bar communist style), went 130-135(pb)-140(failage). Still using too much legs and not enough hips.

Warmed up for the bench and realised I was nowhere near doing anything passable so left it there.