Psychiatry is bogus

orourkeda

whiteonion wrote: »

How do you scientifically measure mental illness, it's all an arbitrary excessive in labeling people based on behavior. It was once considered that homosexuals were mentally ill. That's just an arbitrary label.

We can safely say that the field of study may not be as sophicticated as we would like, but there will be strides made. That's almost inevitable.

Writing it off at this point would be short sighted in the extreme

orourkeda

whiteonion wrote: »

A ban on psychiatric drugs.

Then what?

skelliser

orourkeda wrote: »

I know what the word science means.

Get back down off your high horse and explain to the retard here what is so stupid about what I said.

the Higgs Boson is theorized by physicists to exist but its never been seen our observed. The technology ie. the large hadron collidor only came online last year.
It is hoped that this particle will now be discovered, quantified and understood.


Now lets apply this to the study of the brain, alot is known about neurotransmitters particular serotonion. It has been observed and quantified that in a majority of depressed or other people that are suffering from mental illnesses that serotonion levels are lower then "normal" people.
Why is not understood.
The science continues.

If we accepted the OP's view we should dismiss all of the above and we may as well dismiss the higgs boson theory!
Sure why stop there! we may aswell embrace creationism!

whiteonion

orourkeda wrote: »

Then we had stuff explained away as witchcraft and all other kinds of crazy stuff.

We can safely say that the field of study may not be as sophicticated as we would like, but there will be strides made. That's almost inevitable.

Writing it off at this point would be short sighted in the extreme

I write of astrology, alchemy and other non sciences as well. In my view psychiatry has the same scientific basis as astrology.

whiteonion

orourkeda wrote: »

Then what?

Let so called mentally ill people deal with their problems in other ways.

starviewadams

whiteonion wrote: »

A ban on psychiatric drugs.

Yeah perfect,I'll go back to not sleeping for 4/5 days and going into mania,moron.

whiteonion

starviewadams wrote: »

Yeah perfect,I'll go back to not sleeping for 4/5 days and going into mania,moron.

Drugs are not the answers to your problems, do you have any idea what that stuff will do to your inner organs in the long run?

orourkeda

whiteonion wrote: »

Let so called mentally ill people deal with their problems in other ways.

What other ways?

Chuck Stone

Buceph wrote: »

And it's also testable, in the sense that when certain things are applied to said ailments, there is a statistically significant outcome.

Proof of beneficial outcome?

You're either ignorant of what psychiatry is, or conspiracy theory nutter.

Please elaborate on what you mean by this? Are you saying 'if you don't accept that psychiatry is a field of expertise then you are nuts'

If so you are saying 'because you don't believe that people have the power to deem you 'nuts' then you are a 'nutter'.

Kinda reminds me of the Monty Python witch burning logic. :rolleyes:

whiteonion

orourkeda wrote: »

What other ways?

Meditation, excersice - vitamin d etc

OutlawPete

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

**** Tom Cruise, my Beta Blockers help me no end. Believe what you want tbh.

Beta Blockers block the effects of stress related hormones, lower heart rate, blood pressure etc - I don't think Tom Cruise is anti-all-medicine - he just takes issue with psychiatry and it's stance that the "mind" can be treated with SSRIs and the like.

orourkeda

skelliser wrote: »

the Higgs Boson is theorized by physicists to exist but its never been seen our observed. The technology ie. the large hadron collidor only came online last year.
It is hoped that this particle will now be discovered, quantified and understood.


Now lets apply this to the study of the brain, alot is known about neurotransmitters particular serotonion. It has been observed and quantified that in a majority of depressed or other people that are suffering from mental illnesses that serotonion levels are lower then "normal" people.
Why is not understood.
The science continues.

If we accepted the OP's view we should dismiss all of the above and we may as well dismiss the higgs boson theory!
Sure why stop there! we may aswell embrace creationism!

How will the inconsistencies in physics be explained if this particle isn't found? Surely these inconsistencies arise from the fact that the particle in question has not been found at least in part

Naikon

orourkeda wrote: »

How will the inconsistencies in physics be explained if this particle isn't found?

Do you work in the field?

Saila

whiteonion wrote: »

I write of astrology, alchemy and other non sciences as well.

stop there karl, lmao!
this whole thread reads like an episode of the rickey gervais show!

orourkeda

whiteonion wrote: »

Meditation, excersice - vitamin d etc

Surely the resolution of some mental and psychological problems are more complicated than exercising and taking Vitamin D.

Logical Fallacy

whiteonion wrote: »

Drugs are not the answers to your problems, do you have any idea what that stuff will do to your inner organs in the long run?

Do you????

Links to studies and evidence please, would love to see them.

orourkeda

Naikon wrote: »

Do you work in the field?

No. That's why I'm asking.

Buceph

whiteonion wrote: »

I write of astrology, alchemy and other non sciences as well. In my view psychiatry has the same scientific basis as astrology.

That's because at best you don't understand it, and at worst you're malevolently evil.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Proof of beneficial outcome?

What proof do you want.

Patient presents complaining of X, psychiatrist applies Y, X reduces. When this happens across a group of people on a statisically significant level it's known as science.

whiteonion wrote: »

Drugs are not the answers to your problems, do you have any idea what that stuff will do to your inner organs in the long run?

Do you think this about all drugs? Like transplant patients shouldn't be given anti-rejection drugs?

Do you know what thinking the TV is sending coded messages to you will do to someone in the long run?

whiteonion

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Do you????

Links to studies and evidence please, would love to see them.

People on bipolar drugs are known to frequently gain an excessive amount of weight, not good for your health. Here's a list of known side effects. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/bipolardisorder/medication_003783.htm

skelliser

orourkeda wrote: »

How will the inconsistencies in physics be explained if this particle isn't found?

well then we will have to revise our theory and develop new experiments.
The aim is not to find an answer in the whole but to increase our knowledge.
Not finding it will answer many questions that otherwise might remain a mystery. What im trying to say is it would not be a failure. we will just have to begin again.

Thats the beauty and ambiguity of science! failures can be a success!

Buceph

whiteonion wrote: »

People on bipolar drugs are known to frequently gain an excessive amount of weight, not good for your health. Here's a list of known side effects. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/bipolardisorder/medication_003783.htm

So being a fatty is worse than swapping between a state where you believe there's nothing to live for and state where you literally think you're the King of Ireland?


Edit: This is a list of the possible side-effects of drug used by kidney transplant patients to prevent donor organ rejection.

ADRs can include gingival hyperplasia, convulsions, peptic ulcers, pancreatitis, fever, vomiting, diarrhea, confusion, hypercholesterolemia, dyspnea, numbness and tingling particularly of the lips, pruritus, high blood pressure, potassium retention, and possibly hyperkalemia, kidney and liver dysfunction (nephrotoxicity[13] and hepatotoxicity), burning sensations at finger tips and an increased vulnerability to opportunistic fungal and viral infections.

By your logic they should either take the kidney and hope their immune system doesn't kill it off (although I'm not too sure you'd agree with kidney transplants seeing as you believe medicine is voodoo.) Or they shouldn't get a kidney transplant in the first place but meditate on getting better.

Chuck Stone

Donal Og O Baelach wrote: »

Very surprised at this comment. Sometimes I can almost feel them swishing about in my brain. Can you please explain why it is a bogus theory?

It's rubbish. There is no proof that chemical imbalance causes any emotional instability.

I challenge anyone to provide irrefutable proof that a chemical imbalance in the brain causes emotional distress.

Vigorous exercise causes a 'chemical imbalance' in the brain - the chemical balance doesn't cause people to exercise vigorously.

Logical Fallacy

OutlawPete wrote: »

Beta Blockers block the effects of stress related hormones, lower heart rate, blood pressure etc - I don't think Tom Cruise is anti-all-medicine - he just takes issue with psychiatry and it's stance that the "mind" can be treated with SSRIs and the like.

Indeed, but without the field of psychiatry and pharmaceuticals i would have no Beta Blockers to stop the endless cascades of Adrenaline which were, to be honest, completely ****ing ruining my life.

To be honest, i am not a huge fan of SSRI's at all, never liked them when i was on them and don't feel they helped me in the slightest.

That said, i know people who appear to have benefited from them greatly...as such it annoys me when people sit there and say "Ah sure, a bit of exercise and an apple will fix you right up".

whiteonion

Buceph wrote: »

So being a fatty is worse than swapping between a state where you believe there's nothing to live for and state where you literally think you're the King of Ireland?

Yes, being obese is very dangerous.

WalterMitty

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/048f8c56-6a29-11e0-86e4-00144feab49a.html#axzz1KJ1DAJlM

Closing in on test for scizophrenia. 600 genes involved in that disease(highly complex) . Maybe scizophrenics should just take more vitamins(another drug BTW) and exercise more and they'll be grand.

Logical Fallacy

whiteonion wrote: »

People on bipolar drugs are known to frequently gain an excessive amount of weight, not good for your health. Here's a list of known side effects. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/bipolardisorder/medication_003783.htm

Jesus man, the Beta Blockers i am taking can causes possible mutation on a cellular level and the best you can come up with is a bit of weight gain?

I pitched you an easy ball and you managed to hit yourself in the face with the bat.

Naikon

whiteonion wrote: »

Yes, being obese is very dangerous.

Death by mars bar.

Chuck Stone

Buceph wrote: »

What proof do you want.

Patient presents complaining of X, psychiatrist applies Y, X reduces. When this happens across a group of people on a statisically significant level it's known as science.

[ ] Proof
[x] Belief that it works.
[x] Opinion.

Where's my proof again? Oh yeah you avoided that question.

Kepti

whiteonion wrote: »

People on bipolar drugs are known to frequently gain an excessive amount of weight, not good for your health. Here's a list of known side effects. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/bipolardisorder/medication_003783.htm

Who knew that mental disorders would be more complex than on/off switches in the brain. Of course drugs are going to have side effects.

If bipolar people just took a combination of the drugs and your magic thinking-exercise-sun exposure cure, then the weight gain wouldn't be a problem!

Naikon

Chuck Stone wrote: »

[ ] Proof
[x] Belief that it works.
[x] Opinion.

Where's my proof again? Oh yeah you avoided that question.

Don't feel too bad, he probably works for Pfizer.

orourkeda

skelliser wrote: »

well then we will have to revise our theory and develop new experiments.
The aim is not to find an answer in the whole but to increase our knowledge.
Not finding it will answer many questions that otherwise might remain a mystery. What im trying to say is it would not be a failure. we will just have to begin again.

Thats the beauty and ambiguity of science! failures can be a success!

Absolutely. Thats a given and the whole purpose of scientific endeavour is to increase knowledge and understanding.

My initial point was that, simply put, in the scientific realm, what we can see and prove provides us with the required and irrefutable evidence that something does or doesn't exist. My point was that in my view spiritual matters are not entirely a scientific matter, believers trust to faith. If and when a scientific solution to the existence of god is announced that is a hoy grail on virtually every level

Chuck Stone

WalterMitty wrote: »

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/048f8c56-6a29-11e0-86e4-00144feab49a.html#axzz1KJ1DAJlM

Closing in on test for scizophrenia. 600 genes involved in that disease(highly complex) . Maybe scizophrenics should just take more vitamins(another drug BTW) and exercise more and they'll be grand.

If a person says that a small horse told them to climb trees and sing Bohemian Rhapsody then they're considered 'schizophrenic' if a man says 'My imaginary king told me to devote my life to spreading his opinion' then he's respected as a priest or vicar or imam or rabbi.

Wasadifference?

Saila

there are 2 kinds of people, those who trust and those who dont
if you're the latter you are closer to a serious mental illness than you realise

Logical Fallacy

Check out these side effects -

diarrhea that is watery or bloody;
fever, chills, body aches, flu symptoms;
easy bruising or bleeding, unusual weakness;
urinating less than usual or not at all;
severe skin rash, itching, or peeling;
agitation, confusion, unusual thoughts or behavior; or
seizure (black-out or convulsions).
Less serious penicillin V side effects are more likely to occur, such as:

nausea, vomiting, stomach pain;
vaginal itching or discharge;
headache;
swollen, black, or "hairy" tongue; or
thrush (white patches or inside your mouth or throat).

****ing Penicillin - dangerous ****.

whiteonion

Lloyd Blankfein, CEO of Goldman Sachs claimed that he was doing "God's work". Is Loyd Blankfein schizophrenic too?

skelliser

so how do people figure we help people who are suffering from scizophrenia?

a pat on the back and some exercise?

Buceph

Naikon wrote: »

Don't feel too bad, he probably works for Pfizer.

You honestly believe their is a vast conspiracy perpetrated by virtually every doctor in the world, and every pharmaceutical, and every researcher. A conspiracy so good that they publish, for anyone to see, the basis of their conclusions, how they came to them, the test parameters, the results of the testing, everything.

You genuinely believe that such a conspiracy, where all their evidence has been subject to scrutiny has caught out everyone in the world, and everyone with any ability to understand it is a party to that conspiracy.

whiteonion

Buceph wrote: »

You honestly believe their is a vast conspiracy perpetrated by virtually every doctor in the world, and every pharmaceutical, and every researcher. A conspiracy so good that they publish, for anyone to see, the basis of their conclusions, how they came to them, the test parameters, the results of the testing, everything.

You genuinely believe that such a conspiracy, where all their evidence has been subject to scrutiny has caught out everyone in the world, and everyone with any ability to understand it is a party to that conspiracy.

No, just plain idiocy.

orourkeda

WalterMitty wrote: »

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/048f8c56-6a29-11e0-86e4-00144feab49a.html#axzz1KJ1DAJlM

Closing in on test for scizophrenia. 600 genes involved in that disease(highly complex) . Maybe scizophrenics should just take more vitamins(another drug BTW) and exercise more and they'll be grand.

Then we have illnesses like ptsd, addiction and a whole raft of conditions that a walk in the park and a spot of sun bathing wont cure.

Buceph

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If a person says that a small horse told them to climb trees and sing Bohemian Rhapsody then they're considered 'schizophrenic' if a man says 'My imaginary king told me to devote my life to spreading his opinion' then he's respected as a priest or vicar or imam or rabbi.

Wasadifference?

You do realise the seminaries actually check for people with those disorders. Anyone saying they have actual conversations with god are referred to doctors.

Also if you think schizophrenia is a case of being told to "climb trees and sing Bohemian Rhapsody" you're ****ing clueless.

Logical Fallacy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

If a person says that a small horse told them to climb trees and sing Bohemian Rhapsody then they're considered 'schizophrenic' if a man says 'My imaginary king told me to devote my life to spreading his opinion' then he's respected as a priest or vicar or imam or rabbi.

Wasadifference?

Carl Sagan did a pretty bad ass write up on this very subject called "The Dragon In My Garage" ( a chapter from his book The Demon Haunted World). Well worth a read.

Buceph

whiteonion wrote: »

No, just plain idiocy.

Yeah, everyone's an idiot but you, only you can see the light.

Go start a ****ing cult, you evil man!

Hopefully when you kill yourself to journey amongst the stars your followers will drop the kool-aid and think, "glad that prick is gone."

Chuck Stone

Buceph wrote: »

Patient presents complaining of X, psychiatrist applies Y, X reduces. When this happens across a group of people on a statisically significant level it's known as science.

Person presents complaining of having impure thoughts, priest applies prayer, impure thought reduces. When this happens across a group of people on a statistically significant level it's known as religion.

FYP.

counterpointaud

IMHO the DSM is a load of ****.

Not to belittle the work of Messrs Frued and Jung but the whole area of Psychotherapy has been corrupted to suit the capitalist model. Be very, very careful who you believe in this area, people have motive to hand out diagnoses which suit them, and it isn't just drug companies which stand to gain.

That said, talking therapy does work for some, as do some drugs, YMMV.

Just the diagnostic process sucks balls IMO. Get a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion if you can.

Chuck Stone

Buceph wrote: »

You do realise the seminaries actually check for people with those disorders. Anyone saying they have actual conversations with god are referred to doctors.

Also if you think schizophrenia is a case of being told to "climb trees and sing Bohemian Rhapsody" you're ****ing clueless.

Again I challenge you to tell me exactly* what schizophrenia is - this is the second challenge I've presented you with - you've failed the first one and I'm pretty confident you will do no better on this one.

*after all we can't study the nature of something unless we know what it is - that is science.

OutlawPete

This is fascinating, no matter your stance ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu8nZyjiBJg

whiteonion

Buceph wrote: »

Yeah, everyone's an idiot but you, only you can see the light.

Go start a ****ing cult, you evil man!

Hopefully when you kill yourself to journey amongst the stars your followers will drop the kool-aid and think, "glad that prick is gone."

I have a certain knack of being right about many things. My mother for example is prediabetic, she followed her doctor's bull**** advice that she should eat fruits and wholegrains, blablblabla. The results were predictable and she didn't get any better... her blood sugars were still high. I told her to go low carb, now her blood sugar is at a 3 month average of 4.8, her blood pressure is better and many other values are also better. My mum was better of following my advice than the advice of a so called educated professional. I have no respects for Doctors or Psychiatrists, a bunch of buffoons.

Kepti

Everyone attempting to discredit psychiatry has an agenda.

"If it's impossible to classify a person as insane, then I cannot be insane."

Someone doesn't want their onion peeled.

starviewadams

whiteonion wrote: »

Drugs are not the answers to your problems, do you have any idea what that stuff will do to your inner organs in the long run?

Do you?honestly can't be any more damaging then what I would get up to during an episode of mania,(waking up in hospital with my wrists basicaly stitched back together,inviting vagrants and everybody in between back to my parents house in the middle of the night etc,spending crazy money on stupid stuff without realisng)

Funnily enough once I started taking my 'harmful' meds prescribed by 'bogus' doctors all these things stopped!

Logical Fallacy

starviewadams wrote: »

Do you?honestly can't be any more damaging then what I would get up to during an episode of mania,(waking up in hospital with my wrists basicaly stitched back together,inviting vagrants and everybody in between back to my parents house in the middle of the night etc,spending crazy money on stupid stuff without realisng)

Funnily enough once I started taking my 'harmful' meds prescribed by 'bogus' doctors all these things stopped!

Remember, they don't want to hear that you got help from treatments as they largely don't believe there was anything wrong with you in the first place.

Just a heads up on your audience.