Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

rainbow kirby

Judging from your other PBs, 4:30 sounds like a good target time for you for your first one.

Younganne

run44 wrote: »

Thanks for the quick reply!

Any ideas what a realistic time to expect to finish in might be? I find it hard to imagine going the full 26.2 at the moment but hopefully by building up the mileage it will begin to seem more achievable!

Runn44, I'm no expert but I followed Hal Higdon's Novice 1 pretty much to the mile last year and I finished the DCM in 4.41 and that was with about 6 toilet breaks so probably managed to run it in 4.30ish... your times are better that mine were last year so you would definitely be able for 4.30. I remember after running my first 16m LSR feeling that i would never be able to run another mile but a friend told me that there's lots more training and miles to do before the marathon and the adrenalin on the day and the support of the people will help you along...... and it does.
Also a good positive attitude to the marathon also helps... I always said and believed that I would finish the marathon(hoping for under 5hrs) without any major problems and I did ... I never "hit the Wall" or had any major problem and actually enjoyed the experience.....a little tip - on the day put your name on your running top and when people see it they will cheer you on my name and this is a great boost!!!!

Just keep going with the training,get the miles into the legs and believe in yourself and you'll fly it!!

Anne

run44

Younganne wrote: »

Runn44, I'm no expert but I followed Hal Higdon's Novice 1 pretty much to the mile last year and I finished the DCM in 4.41 and that was with about 6 toilet breaks so probably managed to run it in 4.30ish... your times are better that mine were last year so you would definitely be able for 4.30. I remember after running my first 16m LSR feeling that i would never be able to run another mile but a friend told me that there's lots more training and miles to do before the marathon and the adrenalin on the day and the support of the people will help you along...... and it does.
Also a good positive attitude to the marathon also helps... I always said and believed that I would finish the marathon(hoping for under 5hrs) without any major problems and I did ... I never "hit the Wall" or had any major problem and actually enjoyed the experience.....a little tip - on the day put your name on your running top and when people see it they will cheer you on my name and this is a great boost!!!!

Just keep going with the training,get the miles into the legs and believe in yourself and you'll fly it!!

Anne

Hi Anne,

Thanks so much for your reply! Its great to know someone was in the same situation previously. You did so well with your time! My big worry is not finishing at all. The self-doubt does creep in more often than I'd like, especially after a long tough run. Its been great reading through the thread and last years one too to get an idea of how others prepare and reading about people's experiences. Am doing the training and racing on my own so can be hard with no one else to keep you motivated and enthusiastic!

I've been looking at Hal's Novice 2 plan and it is very similar to the one I've been following. I think for psychological reasons, I'd like to get two 20mile runs in before the marathon, just for that extra bit of confidence. Hoping to manage 16m this weekend and if I survive that, perhaps this week I'll take the plunge and sign up for the marathon!


Thanks everyone for your help and kind words. Its very much appreciated!

Aoife

Mr Slow

run44 wrote: »

Am doing the training and racing on my own so can be hard with no one else to keep you motivated and enthusiastic!

Keep an eye on this thread, group long runs.

BTH

I dipped into this thread early days, but as I havent been able to follow any specific training plan I haven't been keeping too close an eye on here. Hope everyones training is going well. Still on the fence about doing the marathon. Ran a half on Monday and after 10 miles my form went completely out the window. Managed to hold pace, only because of encouragment from the pacers, but theres a lot to do between now and early October before I commit to DCM. With a half Ironman in mid Sept, (Kenmare, not Galway), the shorter intervals have now taken a back seat for the rest of this season, so I should be freer to concentrate on the longer stuff from here on out. As I say, still on the fence, but still think my original target is achievable, but it'll not be easy!

liamo123

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

I dipped into this thread early days, but as I havent been able to follow any specific training plan I haven't been keeping too close an eye on here. Hope everyones training is going well. Still on the fence about doing the marathon. Ran a half on Monday and after 10 miles my form went completely out the window. Managed to hold pace, only because of encouragment from the pacers, but theres a lot to do between now and early October before I commit to DCM. With a half Ironman in mid Sept, (Kenmare, not Galway), the shorter intervals have now taken a back seat for the rest of this season, so I should be freer to concentrate on the longer stuff from here on out. As I say, still on the fence, but still think my original target is achievable, but it'll not be easy!

Cant let u away with that man ... What BTH was too modest to mention was he ran the Half in 1.29.xx which was good enough for 9th place... Not bad for a 1st Half

If u get the training in and decide to run DCM the 3.15 pacers will only b too happy to assist u

runfuj

RayCun wrote: »

Monday | Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|3m/5k|5m/8k, half @ PMP|3m/5k|rest|7m/11.5k|cross


Another step-back week.
For the midweek run, take a mile or two easy to warm up, then speed up to your planned marathon pace, before slowing down again for the final cooldown mile.

Hi guys - I'm new to this forum, and found this marathon guide. I've only been running properly (entering races / fun runs etc) since October last year. I used to mainly do short distance trail runs (5k's) - and this year have signed up for a few road races (max distance 10k PB 52.40), and have completed the first leg of the DCM adidas race series (5M @ 44:51).

The max distance I've run so far is 10k, but am signed up for the 10M in the Phoenix park this month.

Do you think it's a realistic goal to look at taking on the DCM? I'll tag along with this programme as well (if that's ok) as I'd like to try and complete the programme...if possible!

RayCun

The thing to realise is that next week on the plan is 24 miles of running, including a 12 mile run. A few weeks later there's a 29 mile week, with a 15 mile run, followed by a 32 mile week, with a 16 mile run.
If the furthest you've run so far is 6.2 miles (and maybe 12, 14 in a week?), that is a big step up. You will be exhausted, and have a serious risk of injury.
Why not stop at the half marathon this year, and build up slowly to a marathon next year?

runfuj

RayCun wrote: »

The thing to realise is that next week on the plan is 24 miles of running, including a 12 mile run. A few weeks later there's a 29 mile week, with a 15 mile run, followed by a 32 mile week, with a 16 mile run.
If the furthest you've run so far is 6.2 miles (and maybe 12, 14 in a week?), that is a big step up. You will be exhausted, and have a serious risk of injury.
Why not stop at the half marathon this year, and build up slowly to a marathon next year?

That makes sense to me - deep down I knew I was being too ambitious, just needed someone to point it out to me

runfuj

RayCun wrote: »

The thing to realise is that next week on the plan is 24 miles of running, including a 12 mile run. A few weeks later there's a 29 mile week, with a 15 mile run, followed by a 32 mile week, with a 16 mile run.
If the furthest you've run so far is 6.2 miles (and maybe 12, 14 in a week?), that is a big step up. You will be exhausted, and have a serious risk of injury.
Why not stop at the half marathon this year, and build up slowly to a marathon next year?

That makes sense to me - deep down I knew I was being too ambitious, just needed someone to point it out to me

TiptoeMushroom

runfuj wrote: »

That makes sense to me - deep down I knew I was being too ambitious, just needed someone to point it out to me

I'm worried now as even though I have been clocking up the miles, runfuj has better times than me and the longest I have run in one go is 16km ( 10 miles ) so far as per the HH plan.

Hmmm......

Mr Slow

TiptoeMushroom wrote: »

I'm worried now as even though I have been clocking up the miles, runfuj has better times than me and the longest I have run in one go is 16km ( 10 miles ) so far as per the HH plan.

Hmmm......

The jump from 10 to 12 isn't much, the jump from 6.2 to 12 is huge!

Also, you're just aiming to complete the marathon so other's times are irrelevant.

TiptoeMushroom

Mr Slow wrote: »

The jump from 10 to 12 isn't much, the jump from 6.2 to 12 is huge!

Also, you're just aiming to complete the marathon so other's times are irrelevant.

OK, fair point, no more worrying.

I am going to do the marathon :cool:

Now, where are my runners I'm going to power through todays training!

Younganne

Keep plugging away at the plan and the longer runs will flow as per the plan...plenty of training to do yet...
I know after every "first", my first ever 10m LSR, first 12 LSR the sense of achievement was immense and that help to keep you going to as its something only you can do for yourself, noone else can do it for you!!!.

Mr Slow

Younganne wrote: »

Keep plugging away at the plan and the longer runs will flow as per the plan...plenty of training to do yet...
I know after every "first", my first ever 10m LSR, first 12 LSR the sense of achievement was immense and that help to keep you going to as its something only you can do for yourself, noone else can do it for you!!!.

When you're looking down at a distance instead of up, it makes it so much easier to do next time.

PaulieC

Hi All,

I am getting conflicting advice on this (and reading conflicting opinions online), jsut wanted to guage the feeling here.

I am doing (or hoping to) my 1st marathon in October and I was wondering should I try to run the full distance in training beforehand? A lot of the training plans I have seen only go up to 20/22 mile runs. Personally, I would be a lot better mentally prepared for the big day if I knew I had the distance already run. It would help me to know what to expect in terms of what to eat/drink, what I could expect to feel like and most importantly, I would know in my head that I had already done the distance, so if I was feeling any nagging doubts on the day, I could tell myself that it's nothing I haven't done before, albeit in training.
I'm not sure I'd be as too confident going into the day if I had say 20 miles max under my belt.

What do the experienced marathoners here advise ?

Thanks
Paul

p.s. this all assumes that I am able to run 26 miles in the first place

ThePiedPiper

Cambo,

I would say a definite NO for doing the full distance of 26.2 miles in training. It would serve absolutely no purpose and the recovery time from it would mean you would probably lessen your performance in the race itself.

For a first time marathoner, I would say 22 miles would be the longest run necessary, 20 would be more than sufficient. After 18-20 miles, there is an enormous strain on the body and lots of muscle damage.

I've ran 11 marathons and the longest training run I ever did for one of them was 23 miles. There is only a handful of absolute elite marathoners who would cover the distance or over it in training and even if they did, it would be at a much reduced pace.

menoscemo

cambo_gueno wrote: »

Hi All,

I am getting conflicting advice on this (and reading conflicting opinions online), jsut wanted to guage the feeling here.

I am doing (or hoping to) my 1st marathon in October and I was wondering should I try to run the full distance in training beforehand? A lot of the training plans I have seen only go up to 20/22 mile runs. Personally, I would be a lot better mentally prepared for the big day if I knew I had the distance already run. It would help me to know what to expect in terms of what to eat/drink, what I could expect to feel like and most importantly, I would know in my head that I had already done the distance, so if I was feeling any nagging doubts on the day, I could tell myself that it's nothing I haven't done before, albeit in training.
I'm not sure I'd be as too confident going into the day if I had say 20 miles max under my belt.

What do the experienced marathoners here advise ?

Thanks
Paul

p.s. this all assumes that I am able to run 26 miles in the first place

For a first time marathoner, absolutely not.

tunguska

RunForestRun wrote: »

Cambo,

I would say a definite NO for doing the full distance of 26.2 miles in training. It would serve absolutely no purpose and the recovery time from it would mean you would probably lessen your performance in the race itself.

For a first time marathoner, I would say 22 miles would be the longest run necessary, 20 would be more than sufficient. After 18-20 miles, there is an enormous strain on the body and lots of muscle damage.

I've ran 11 marathons and the longest training run I ever did for one of them was 23 miles. There is only a handful of absolute elite marathoners who would cover the distance or over it in training and even if they did, it would be at a much reduced pace.

I disagree. I've run over the marathon distance a few times in the build up to a marathon and I really felt the benefits of it. The most important thing you gain from running the full 26miles is the knowledge that you can do it. So that come the big day you're relaxed and able to concentrate on nailing a good time, theres no doubts holding you back. I know steve way does training runs of 26miles which are done at marathon pace + 60secs.

rainbow kirby

We're getting into the "to finish" vs "aiming for a good time" argument here. People who fall in the "to finish" bracket will probably max out at a 30-35km long run, some of those aiming for a goal time will go the distance (or more) in training.

elvis jones

rainbow kirby wrote: »

We're getting into the "to finish" vs "aiming for a good time" argument here. People who fall in the "to finish" bracket will probably max out at a 30-35km long run, some of those aiming for a goal time will go the distance (or more) in training.

I'm stuck in the middle of this. I want to finish but it has to be in time that i am happy to tell people. I've always thought in life that finishing isn't enough.

I did a half marathon on Monday ( my 3rd ) i finished but the time disgusted me:mad:

But i do think doing the full distance in training serves no great positives. Recovery time will be needed and it increases the risk of injury.

menoscemo

tunguska wrote: »

I disagree. I've run over the marathon distance a few times in the build up to a marathon and I really felt the benefits of it. The most important thing you gain from running the full 26miles is the knowledge that you can do it. So that come the big day you're relaxed and able to concentrate on nailing a good time, theres no doubts holding you back. I know steve way does training runs of 26miles which are done at marathon pace + 60secs.

Yeah, but were you a novice runner, and did you use this method for your first marathon?

I plan on running Longford Marathon this year in the build up to Berlin, running the first 20 at an easy pace and the last 6.2 at PMP. Thing is, Longford will be my 8th Marathon (or longer) distance race of the year and Berlin my 9th. If I'd done the 26.2 in training for my First marathon 2 years ago though, it would have nearly killed me and probably put me off doing DCM.

Tunguska, Bear in mind that most of the people in this thread have yet to cover even 15 miles so the strains of running 26.2 in training would probably prove to be too much.

ecoli

tunguska wrote: »

I disagree. I've run over the marathon distance a few times in the build up to a marathon and I really felt the benefits of it. The most important thing you gain from running the full 26miles is the knowledge that you can do it. So that come the big day you're relaxed and able to concentrate on nailing a good time, theres no doubts holding you back. I know steve way does training runs of 26miles which are done at marathon pace + 60secs.

I think for the purpose of this thread running the entire distance is ill advised. Many of the runners here do not have the base that you would have Tunguska. You need to take into account your training history and you usual mileage.
For a >60 miles a week runner I would not reccommend it at all. There are many elites who would run it but you have to remember their weekly mileage is over 100 in many cases and as a result the body is better equipped to recover from this longer run

RayCun

rainbow kirby wrote: »

We're getting into the "to finish" vs "aiming for a good time" argument here. People who fall in the "to finish" bracket will probably max out at a 30-35km long run, some of those aiming for a goal time will go the distance (or more) in training.

+1
and you have to look at overall training context too. If someone is running 80, 100, 120 miles a week in training, they're going to be running 20 miles a day pretty frequently, so an extra 6 miles is nothing special.
If 20 miles is longer than you've ever run before, an extra six is a serious additional load.

elvis jones

I'll only be running 3 times a week. Other work outs will be cycling and swimming.

Can it be done ?

Distances i'm looking at are

4M
8M
XX LSR

2 cycles a week and 2 swims

I'm already up to 14M LSR and 3 halfs under my belt:)

tunguska

menoscemo wrote: »

Yeah, but were you a novice runner, and did you use this method for your first marathon?

I plan on running Longford Marathon this year in the build up to Berlin, running the first 20 at an easy pace and the last 6.2 at PMP. Thing is, Longford will be my 8th Marathon (or longer) distance race of the year and Berlin my 9th. If I'd done the 26.2 in training for my First marathon 2 years ago though, it would have nearly killed me and probably put me off doing DCM.

Tunguska, Bear in mind that most of the people in this thread have yet to cover even 15 miles so the strains of running 26.2 in training would probably prove to be too much.

Sorry lads didnt realise this had been moved to the novice thread.
But just to answer your questions menoscemo, my first race ever was april 2008(great ireland run) and my first marathon was october 2008, so yeah I was a novice runner when I ran the full distance in training and i did do that on my first marathon.

heffsarmy

elvis jones wrote: »

I'll only be running 3 times a week. Other work outs will be cycling and swimming.

Easily can be done but you need to put the effort in. If you can only run 3 times a week and you want to run the marathon, I'd suggest you get 2 x LSR in the week and a steady pace run (8 - 10miles). It would take you a few weeks to get up to speed with this, but you would be in good shape for the marathon, considering the cross training you are doing also. Keep it simple, I would do something like this, you may do doubles to give yourself a rest day.

mon cycle
tues swim
wed LSR
thurs swim
fri steady pace run
sat cycle
sun LSR

elvis jones

heffsarmy wrote: »

Easily can be done but you need to put the effort in. If you can only run 3 times a week and you want to run the marathon, I'd suggest you get 2 x LSR in the week and a steady pace run (8 - 10miles). It would take you a few weeks to get up to speed with this, but you would be in good shape for the marathon, considering the cross training you are doing also. Keep it simple, I would do something like this, you may do doubles to give yourself a rest day.

mon cycle
tues swim
wed LSR
thurs swim
fri steady pace run
sat cycle
sun LSR

Yeah looks like something like what i'm thinking of. The reason for the extra cross training and less running is my achilles.

I don't mind 2 LSR a week and i'm planning my mid week run to be at least 8 mile.

shels4ever

ecoli wrote: »

I think for the purpose of this thread running the entire distance is ill advised. Many of the runners here do not have the base that you would have Tunguska. You need to take into account your training history and you usual mileage.
For a >60 miles a week runner I would not reccommend it at all. There are many elites who would run it but you have to remember their weekly mileage is over 100 in many cases and as a result the body is better equipped to recover from this longer run

+1
also at elite level time on feet is an issue, as Marathon distance for them in training would be still well under 3 hours on your feet. If I was to try that in training it would be a 4 hour plus training run. So wouldnt be an option and the recovery time would be far to long and take away from the rest of the weeks running. The long run is only one session in the end of the day(an important one at that).

Rantan

cambo_gueno wrote: »

Hi All,

I am getting conflicting advice on this (and reading conflicting opinions online), jsut wanted to guage the feeling here.

I am doing (or hoping to) my 1st marathon in October and I was wondering should I try to run the full distance in training beforehand? A lot of the training plans I have seen only go up to 20/22 mile runs. Personally, I would be a lot better mentally prepared for the big day if I knew I had the distance already run. It would help me to know what to expect in terms of what to eat/drink, what I could expect to feel like and most importantly, I would know in my head that I had already done the distance, so if I was feeling any nagging doubts on the day, I could tell myself that it's nothing I haven't done before, albeit in training.
I'm not sure I'd be as too confident going into the day if I had say 20 miles max under my belt.

What do the experienced marathoners here advise ?

Thanks
Paul

p.s. this all assumes that I am able to run 26 miles in the first place

Hi Paul,
i did my 2nd marathon this year so relatively inexperienced - my long runs consisted of 3 x 15m and 1 x 18m - i had planned to do a 2nd 18m or a 20m but a sprained ankle set me back 2 weeks and I had to substitute the longer run for a 15m. In the end I finished comfortably in 3.42 which I was delighted with. I would suggest unless you are an experieced runner at other distances and have miles in your legs that you do not need to do over 18-20m for your first marathon.
Injuries have a sneaky way of creeping up on you two weeks after the long run or heavy week that actually caused it in the first place. If you are new to running as well as marathons maybe concentrate on doing more faster shorter runs 13m - 15m and do a couple of longs???? - you 'll be fitter than you expect on the day....good luck whatever you decide and try not to worry too much about these things its more importatnt to stay relaxed and to enjoy the experience of training as well as the race