Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

kit3

RayCun wrote: »

kit3 wrote: »

Hi, looking for some advice please. I've been following a mixture of the HH novice 1 &2 for DCM. My last LSR was week before last - 14 miles no problem. Then I was completely floored by a virus last week and couldn't run at all. Back on track this week with a 3 miler and a 7 miler so far. Question relates to my LSR for this week - should I go with the 15 miles I was planning for last week or go a bit less ? Really enjoying the training and want to avoid messing up at all costs. Thanks. C

If your last LSR was 14 miles, you are probably a bit ahead of schedule anyway. What was your plan for the remaining weeks?

Glad to hear that. I was following the LSRs from the HH novice 2 plan which would have had me do 11 this week and then 17, 18, 13 (perfect for half in the park), 19, 12, 20, 12, 8 and then the big one ! I've just had phone internet access for the summer and could only see the first part of your schedule each week and not the LSRs !

RayCun

kit3 wrote: »

Glad to hear that. I was following the LSRs from the HH novice 2 plan which would have had me do 11 this week and then 17, 18, 13 (perfect for half in the park), 19, 12, 20, 12, 8 and then the big one ! I've just had phone internet access for the summer and could only see the first part of your schedule each week and not the LSRs !

If you were planning to do 11 this weekend anyway that's perfect, will let you recover more from the virus before doing a longer run next week.

Duckee

thanks for the good luck wishes.

I am disappointed but there'll be plenty more marathons next year.

Good luck everyone. I'll be in the crowds in October cheering everyone on

kit3

RayCun wrote: »

kit3 wrote: »

Glad to hear that. I was following the LSRs from the HH novice 2 plan which would have had me do 11 this week and then 17, 18, 13 (perfect for half in the park), 19, 12, 20, 12, 8 and then the big one ! I've just had phone internet access for the summer and could only see the first part of your schedule each week and not the LSRs !

If you were planning to do 11 this weekend anyway that's perfect, will let you recover more from the virus before doing a longer run next week.

Thanks a million. Will do

macinalli

Duckee wrote: »

thanks for the good luck wishes.

I am disappointed but there'll be plenty more marathons next year.

You're right to skip the marathon if you can't commit to the training, but that doesn't mean you can't run all year round! You've the half in September and there will be lots of other races taking place all the way up to Christmas. Pick a target race to aim at later in the year (PBs are always great!) and get into the habit of running. When you do tackle the marathon next year you'll have a solid base built and will run better because of this.

LaHaine

Quick question for you if you dont mind guys.

I'm aiming for sub 4 in the marathon using the Hal Higdon novice 1 plan. Ill have a better idea of the odds of that after the half marathon in September. But im happy enough that the training plan is fine for me at the moment so i would like to put in a little extra.

So my question is - Is it better to add extra mileage to the long run or add extra milage to the mid week runs?

I understand that adding extra mileage may lead to injury and might not be the best option but I know the risk and would appreciate some advice. Cheers!

Fair play with all the work by the way Ray. Im not the most active poster on this thread but i follow it with interest and appreciate the tips.

ger664

LaHaine wrote: »

Quick question for you if you dont mind guys.

I'm aiming for sub 4 in the marathon using the Hal Higdon novice 1 plan. Ill have a better idea of the odds of that after the half marathon in September. But im happy enough that the training plan is fine for me at the moment so i would like to put in a little extra.

So my question is - Is it better to add extra mileage to the long run or add extra milage to the mid week runs?

I understand that adding extra mileage may lead to injury and might not be the best option but I know the risk and would appreciate some advice. Cheers!

If you feel like doing extra then the LSRs is best place to add but at this point in time all u could really do is maybe make week 11 a 17-18 miler and make week 13 a 20 miler. Its only adding an extra 4 miles but having 3 18+ runs and 2 20 milers will set you up a bit better.

A point of caution as this is a step back week you always feel like doing more or pushing more, please leave the decision about doing the extra miles until next week after you have completed the 15 miler.

RayCun

All I'd add is that an alternative to doing more mileage is to do more marathon-pace miles. I ran the middle midweek run (the longest one in the group of three) at marathon pace in training last year, it helped me get used to the pace. Only one run a week though, the rest should be easy.

PDCAT

RayCun wrote: »

All I'd add is that an alternative to doing more mileage is to do more marathon-pace miles. I ran the middle midweek run (the longest one in the group of three) at marathon pace in training last year, it helped me get used to the pace. Only one run a week though, the rest should be easy.

Hi Ray, You said you ran your long midweek run at marathon pace last year in training. Would it be ok to do this and run the Thursday run (4 miles) at tempo as well.
At present i'm running

Monday - 4 miles - (Recovery) 12.00 minute miles
Tuesday - 7 Miles - (Easy) 9.50 minute miles
Thursday - 4 Miles - (Tempo) 8.00 minute miles
Saturday - LSR - (Easy) 10 minute miles

Would it be ok for me to change my Tuesday run to 9 minute miles and still maintain my tempo run on Thursday.
Thanks.

ger664

PDCAT wrote: »

Hi Ray, You said you ran your long midweek run at marathon pace last year in training. Would it be ok to do this and run the Thursday run (4 miles) at tempo as well.
At present i'm running

Monday - 4 miles - (Recovery) 12.00 minute miles
Tuesday - 7 Miles - (Easy) 9.50 minute miles
Thursday - 4 Miles - (Tempo) 8.00 minute miles
Saturday - LSR - (Easy) 10 minute miles

Would it be ok for me to change my Tuesday run to 9 minute miles and still maintain my tempo run on Thursday.
Thanks.

No, unless you make Thursdays Run a recovery run.

ger664

A lot of questions about doing some more cropping up this week

This week is a recovery week so we need to take things easy.

People will no doubt be feeling good during sessions and tempted to push on a bit.

Don't please take it easy as the purpose of this weeks training schedule is to rest the body and have it fully prepared and ready for the increased mileage in the weeks ahead.

jamesmurphy1

jamesmurphy1 wrote: »

Hi Ray thanks for that reply I should have said I will be away in September for three weeks will still be following the program but will miss the HM will be in the heat of Spain. I intend to do the Athlone three quarter Marathon could you adjust your suggestion to in corperate Athlone thanks again for the help is exellent

Hi Ray

Ran 20 miles yesterday 3.24 at Avg 10.10 was now thinking of doing over the next 4 weeks 12, 14, 16, and 10 before the Athlone three quarter. I was looking at your ealier posts about the 3 runs during the week. I will do the long run as suggested at marathon pace. Would it be a mistake to do 1 of the other runs at a faster pace sai 1 mile warm up with 4 miles at a faster pace. Not sure what to do mid week.Thanks again to you and all the lads for their suggestions really a great help

RayCun

ger664 wrote: »

No, unless you make Thursdays Run a recovery run.

Yeah - you're doing four runs a week, the most you should do is two hard, two easy. The LSR is at an easy pace, but the distance makes it a hard run. Tempo runs and PMP runs are both hard.
You could alternate your PMP and tempo runs week-to-week. They're both about the same level of difficulty, and it would add a little variety to your training. But don't do both in the same week.

run44

Hi guys,

Just firstly wanted to say thanks for answering all of our questions! One more for you if you don't mind. Just wondering if I should avoid taking gels on my 15-20 mile LSRs to train to body to efficiently burn fat and glycogen or would one gel make a difference? Would many people usually take gels on their training runs?

Thanks!

RayCun

jamesmurphy1 wrote: »

Hi Ray

Ran 20 miles yesterday 3.24 at Avg 10.10 was now thinking of doing over the next 4 weeks 12, 14, 16, and 10 before the Athlone three quarter. I was looking at your ealier posts about the 3 runs during the week. I will do the long run as suggested at marathon pace. Would it be a mistake to do 1 of the other runs at a faster pace sai 1 mile warm up with 4 miles at a faster pace. Not sure what to do mid week.Thanks again to you and all the lads for their suggestions really a great help

Same as PDCAT - you could do one of your midweek runs at PMP OR one of those runs at a faster pace, but not both.

Echoing ger - you will have some weeks in the schedule when you feel exhausted and can barely make it around your runs. You will have other weeks (especially step-back weeks) when you feel good and will be tempted to do more than your plan says. DON'T GIVE IN TO THE TEMPTATION. The goal of all this running is not to have a great training week where you smash out some fast miles. Your goal is still two months away.

RayCun

run44 wrote: »

Just firstly wanted to say thanks for answering all of our questions! One more for you if you don't mind. Just wondering if I should avoid taking gels on my 15-20 mile LSRs to train to body to efficiently burn fat and glycogen or would one gel make a difference? Would many people usually take gels on their training runs?

Some people do that, but it's too hardcore for me. Running out of energy 4 miles from home is a deeply unpleasant experience, so I take a gel on runs of that distance.

RayCun

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|||232 miles||
Nules10|| |257.5| |
liamog| ||197.7 miles||
Concerned2|||368.08 miles||
cr17|| |167 miles| |
Househunter| | |330.7 miles| |
Mr Abbey| | |154miles| |
PDCAT| | |161.6m|
TomD101| | |138.1miles since 04/07| |
ShivDCM|||194m||
BobMac104| | |222.55m| |
red face dave|||83||
Younganne|| |112m||
rom| 5|37m |219.27 miles| |
TiptoeMushroom|| |135km since June 22nd. | |
special1977| | |122| |
mazken| | |135.1 miles| |
run44 (Aoife)| ||303.6m total| |
jamesmurphy1|||240miles| |
dylbert|||128.5||

butlerjustine

Hi Ray

I was onto you before I went on holidays for 3 weeks in July.

Here are my recent times -
Before Hol - 12 miles 2:04
After Hol - 12 miles 2:10
10 mile - 2:00
14 mile - 2:55

I'm not happy with my 14 mile time, I did get stuck at traffic lights a good few times and my last couple of miles were 14 mins as I felt so tired. I drink lucozade but now am going to start having jelly beans and gels.

My LSR run plan from now is Hal's novice 2 plan with a couple more miles added to make the race somewhat more pleasant 15, 17, 20 (Hal 18), 13 (half), 19, 5, 12, 22 (Hal 20), 12, 8.

What do you think?

RayCun

butlerjustine wrote: »

My LSR run plan from now is Hal's novice 2 plan with a couple more miles added to make the race somewhat more pleasant 15, 17, 20 (Hal 18), 13 (half), 19, 5, 12, 22 (Hal 20), 12, 8.
What do you think?

I would leave the scheduled 20 miles at 20 - there's not a lot of benefit to be had from running the extra 2 miles, compared to the increased risk of injury and exhaustion. Yes, you'll be running longer on the day, but you'll also be tapering before that, so you should have much more energy.

Also, this bit

butlerjustine wrote: »

Before Hol - 12 miles 2:04
After Hol - 12 miles 2:10
10 mile - 2:00
14 mile - 2:55
I'm not happy with my 14 mile time, I did get stuck at traffic lights a good few times and my last couple of miles were 14 mins

Are you trying to run these fast? At your planned marathon pace or something? You should not be worrying about times and paces on your longest runs, just taking them easy and getting used to the time on your feet. Running the LSRs too fast is counter-productive - it takes too much energy, and you don't learn to burn fat steadily through your run.

jinxy1

Hi Ray,
I'm looking for a bit of advice too! I'm currently following the Hal Higdon novice 1 programme in the hope of completing my first marathon in October. I did the 10 miler in the Phoenix park last weekend in 1.33 but struggled from the 5 mile mark having gone out too fast. Thing is, I'm hoping to do the half marathon in longford this weekend and am wondering what to do next week as I will have had two race weeks in a row. The schedule on hal's programme has me down for a 15 mile lsr next week, then 16 the following week which sound ok (in a hellish sort of way!) but I won't really have had a step back week then, I'd welcome any advice you can give. The thread is excellent by the way for newbies like me so thanks again!

ger664

jinxy1 wrote: »

Hi Ray,
I'm looking for a bit of advice too! I'm currently following the Hal Higdon novice 1 programme in the hope of completing my first marathon in October. I did the 10 miler in the Phoenix park last weekend in 1.33 but struggled from the 5 mile mark having gone out too fast. Thing is, I'm hoping to do the half marathon in longford this weekend and am wondering what to do next week as I will have had two race weeks in a row. The schedule on hal's programme has me down for a 15 mile lsr next week, then 16 the following week which sound ok (in a hellish sort of way!) but I won't really have had a step back week then, I'd welcome any advice you can give. The thread is excellent by the way for newbies like me so thanks again!

You really should not have 2 hard races in a row included in your plan.

If you are hell bent on racing the half on Sunday then I would suggest next week you take 2 days rest on Mon & Tues, replace Wednesdays 7 miler with Tuesdays 3 mile recovery run, do a very easy 4 mile run on Thursday and then continue with the plan.

Gearheart

All the best to all you guys who are taking part, might give it a try next year!

PDCAT

RayCun wrote: »

Yeah - you're doing four runs a week, the most you should do is two hard, two easy. The LSR is at an easy pace, but the distance makes it a hard run. Tempo runs and PMP runs are both hard.
You could alternate your PMP and tempo runs week-to-week. They're both about the same level of difficulty, and it would add a little variety to your training. But don't do both in the same week.

Thanks Ray and Ger - What your saying makes perfect sense. When i read that Ray had run his midweek long run last year at PMP, thought i might do the same. i think i'll keep my midweek long run at easy pace as i like doing the Tempo run'. I'd like to keep speed work up for shorter distances.

Thanks again lads.

jinxy1

Thanks Ger, I think I'll treat Sunday as an LSR rather than a race so as the last thing I want to do is risk injury or over-do it, thanks for the advice.

jamesmurphy1

RayCun wrote: »

Same as PDCAT - you could do one of your midweek runs at PMP OR one of those runs at a faster pace, but not both.

Echoing ger - you will have some weeks in the schedule when you feel exhausted and can barely make it around your runs. You will have other weeks (especially step-back weeks) when you feel good and will be tempted to do more than your plan says. DON'T GIVE IN TO THE TEMPTATION. The goal of all this running is not to have a great training week where you smash out some fast miles. Your goal is still two months away.

Thanks again Ray Im not great at working out pace what would my PMP be Im hoping to do the marathon in 04.30 if I were to teat my 5 mile run as a speed or interval session how should I do it. Thanks again for all the help no im not going to be tempted to go mad had my first run this morning in the early morning heat of Spain at 29 degs bur going well and taking buckets of hydration each day

Nules10

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|||232 miles||
Nules10|4| 37|294.5|18m LSR this week. Last 4 miles were tough enough but still feel good |
liamog| ||197.7 miles||
Concerned2|||368.08 miles||
cr17|| |167 miles| |
Househunter| | |330.7 miles| |
Mr Abbey| | |154miles| |
PDCAT| | |161.6m|
TomD101| | |138.1miles since 04/07| |
ShivDCM|||194m||
BobMac104| | |222.55m| |
red face dave|||83||
Younganne|| |112m||
rom| 5|37m |219.27 miles| |
TiptoeMushroom|| |135km since June 22nd. | |
special1977| | |122| |
mazken| | |135.1 miles| |
run44 (Aoife)| ||303.6m total| |
jamesmurphy1|||240miles| |
dylbert|||128.5||

RayCun

jamesmurphy1 wrote: »

Thanks again Ray Im not great at working out pace what would my PMP be Im hoping to do the marathon in 04.30 if I were to teat my 5 mile run as a speed or interval session how should I do it.

PMP for 4:30 is ten minute miles. You could do one run a week at that pace , or do part of your run at a faster pace - a mile warmup, a few miles at half-marathon pace, and a mile cooldown.

shivDCM

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|||232 miles||
Nules10|4| 37|294.5|18m LSR this week. Last 4 miles were tough enough but still feel good |
liamog| ||197.7 miles||
Concerned2|||368.08 miles||
cr17|| |167 miles| |
Househunter| | |330.7 miles| |
Mr Abbey| | |154miles| |
PDCAT| | |161.6m|
TomD101| | |138.1miles since 04/07| |
ShivDCM|4|32|226m||
BobMac104| | |222.55m| |
red face dave|||83||
Younganne|| |112m||
rom| 5|37m |219.27 miles| |
TiptoeMushroom|| |135km since June 22nd. | |
special1977| | |122| |
mazken| | |135.1 miles| |
run44 (Aoife)| ||303.6m total| |
jamesmurphy1|||240miles| |
dylbert|||128.5||

RayCun

Monday | Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|3m/5k|7m/12k|4m/6.5k|rest|15m/24k|cross


That's a pretty long LSR, so remember

• start off slow, and try to keep a steady pace throughout
• plan your food and drink on route
• run with a group if you can

TiptoeMushroom

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|||232 miles||
Nules10|4| 37|294.5|18m LSR this week. Last 4 miles were tough enough but still feel good |
liamog| ||197.7 miles||
Concerned2|||368.08 miles||
cr17|| |167 miles| |
Househunter| | |330.7 miles| |
Mr Abbey| | |154miles| |
PDCAT| | |161.6m|
TomD101| | |138.1miles since 04/07| |
ShivDCM|4|32|226m||
BobMac104| | |222.55m| |
red face dave|||83||
Younganne|| |112m||
rom| 5|37m |219.27 miles| |
TiptoeMushroom|3|28km |163km since June 22nd. | Just back from my 18km LSR, feel great, ankle better! |
special1977| | |122| |
mazken| | |135.1 miles| |
run44 (Aoife)| ||303.6m total| |
jamesmurphy1|||240miles| |
dylbert|||128.5||