Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

Chartsengrafs

Ger, RayCun, thnaks for the input. It's my first marathon but I've been 'training' consistently albeit at much (much!) lower distance for 5 or so years. Though my main focus in the last 2 years has been triathlon, nothing longer than olympic distance.

Other distances are usually 4/5 runs during the week, mostly 10k, sometimes as little as 7, sometimes 13/14. 40km average excluding the long runs.

10 the week before sounds a good idea. The tapering concept is a bit new to me. Just keen to do 20 again psychologically.

NeverHappy

RayCun wrote: »

You've improved a lot over the race series - from your 5 and 10 mile times I would have said 4 hours was too fast, but your half marathon time was on target.

Are you running your LSR at a slow pace? How about your midweek runs?

They do have a couple of gel stations on the marathon route, but I think you're better off carrying them with you. There was a recent thread about how to do this. When you are banking on being able to take these gels its better to be self-sufficient - what happens if your friends are stuck in traffic, or you don't see them, or you get to the gel station and they've run out?

Thanks for the response;
I do my LSR's at about 9.20min pace. Feels fine and slow. I feel better after reading this thread because I see others suffer the same issue, namely that the first 3 miles are a killer but its fine after that, up to the point of my previous LSR and then the extra miles are tough....

Midweek runs; i try to run the shorter runs,3/4/5's at a faster pace, around 8.30. the longer run on a wed is usually at 9min pace.

Running with the brother who is starting to suffer. After about 2.30hrs the backs of his knees hurt to a point where he has to stop. 20 miles this weekend will be the one to show if he can finish, the 1/2 he had no pain at all but we obviously ran faster.

We use the dreaded "batman belt" but I've been using it since to frank duffy, so its no bother. it carries 1 bottle, 2-3 gels and some jelly beans as my treat. I find with the jellyt beans it can distract me though a bad patch with the chewing etc and I may get a mile or two without knowing it.

My races have got better, partly due to weight loss me thinks, but we started near the rear each time and ran past people for the whole race. Made it fun. Especially passing people after an hour who obviously didnt understand the wave start system.....

Suffered with shin splints at the start and have torn a muscle in my left shin. Doesn't bother me only when I try to pick up the pace too early. Physio says I'll be fine but no running for 9-10 weeks after DCM.

All in all a great experience. loved the race series. very rewarding as I was doing 13 minute miles at the start.

hard to stay motivated lately, thats why i'm on here I suppose. Seeing that others are tired etc has helped me to keep going.

At this point its all consuming. Had a bad week food wise and felt it in my runs, so it keeps me on the right track. Was hoping to lose another 1/2 stone before the race but finding i need to eat a lot more for the energy needed for the distances I'm now covering. Evening runs are harder now with lack of sunlight.

Run about 330 miles since june, hills in the curragh helped in the phoenix park although I'm hoping DCM is flat enough.

My only other race before this year was conn 1/2 in 2005 where i did a lowly 2:20. so its all PB's for me

Thanks for listening, sorry it was a bit of a longer post than i meant

macinalli

NeverHappy wrote: »

At this point its all consuming. Had a bad week food wise and felt it in my runs, so it keeps me on the right track. Was hoping to lose another 1/2 stone before the race but finding i need to eat a lot more for the energy needed for the distances I'm now covering.

This is a biggie for lots of first time marathon runners and something to watch out for. I read someplace here the mantra that "you'll never outrun a bad diet" and it's true. Yes, you are working hard and will be hungrier, but many bad foods contain so much junk calories. You need to be careful at this stage (and especially when you start tapering) not to gain weight. Lots of good tips to be had here - porridge for breakfast, nuts & fruit for snacks, be careful with desserts (marathon runners can eat a LOT of biscuits). At this stage most of the work is done, it's just a case of holding the discipline!

maggiemissy

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|||333 miles||
Nules10|||384.5||
liamog|||249.1 miles||
Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
Househunter|||488 miles||
Mr Abbey|||235 miles||
PDCAT|||262.5m|
TomD101|||262since 04/07||
ShivDCM|2|8|345m|calf strain|
BobMac104|||360.05 ||
red face dave|||204 miles||
Younganne|||217.5m|
rom|||328.43 miles||
TiptoeMushroom|||260.5km since June 22nd. ||
mazken|||285.8 miles||
maggiemissy|||419 miles| |
maggiemissy|3|28miles|447 miles |Missed one of the 5 milers last week, everythings holding up, so far so good! |
run44 (Aoife)|4|30miles|414.7 miles since June|Starting to feel like a runner now... |
specialk1977|||122| |
maggiemissy|||384.1||

RayCun

househunter wrote: »

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|4|38 miles|371 miles|Both my and other halves birthday this week, but still got 4 runs done, including my first ever 20 - very happy with how things are going :cool:|
Nules10|2|7|391.5|leg still at me getting worried now |
liamog|1|20|269.1 miles|Didn't make it out for any midweek sessions, my part time college course has started back. Ran a 20 Mile Long Rilun to make up the distance, much better than last week and pace was 5:55/km so more like what I should be training at|
Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
Househunter|5|43.3|584 miles|Good week. Did 5k Liz McDonnell xc race yesterday and was good fun. Got a PB for it too after doing my LSR on Sat so happy with that|
Mr Abbey|||235 miles||
PDCAT|||262.5m|
TomD101|||262since 04/07||
ShivDCM|2|8|345m|calf strain|
BobMac104|5|41|401.05 |Good week overall. hurt my foot on tuesday but it cleared up fast. Cork to cobh yeaterday (15m) and managed to average 8:30 pace and still felt strong at the end gives me good confidence for dublin (hoping for 4 hours). Legs feel good this morning.|
red face dave|3|15|219 miles|Missed my LSR this week a few little niggles so I said better not push it, a tough week this week is more important|
Younganne|4|31|248.5m|training going well, no problems at the moment TG...hope that continues!
rom|4|29 miles|394.64 miles||
TiptoeMushroom|||260.5km since June 22nd. ||
mazken|4|33|318.8 miles|good step back week! not as daunted about next week's schedule as I thought I'd be! we're getting there...slowly but surely |
maggiemissy|3|28miles|447 miles|Missed one of the 5 milers last week, everythings holding up, so far so good! |
run44 (Aoife)|4|30miles|414.7 miles since June|Starting to feel like a runner now... |
specialk1977|||122| |

PDCAT

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|4|38 miles|371 miles|Both my and other halves birthday this week, but still got 4 runs done, including my first ever 20 - very happy with how things are going :cool:|
Nules10|2|7|391.5|leg still at me getting worried now |
liamog|1|20|269.1 miles|Didn't make it out for any midweek sessions, my part time college course has started back. Ran a 20 Mile Long Rilun to make up the distance, much better than last week and pace was 5:55/km so more like what I should be training at|
Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
Househunter|5|43.3|584 miles|Good week. Did 5k Liz McDonnell xc race yesterday and was good fun. Got a PB for it too after doing my LSR on Sat so happy with that|
Mr Abbey|||235 miles||
PDCAT|2|7|269.5m|Right leg sore all week, so no running done for second week in a row.
TomD101|||262since 04/07||
ShivDCM|2|8|345m|calf strain|
BobMac104|5|41|401.05 |Good week overall. hurt my foot on tuesday but it cleared up fast. Cork to cobh yeaterday (15m) and managed to average 8:30 pace and still felt strong at the end gives me good confidence for dublin (hoping for 4 hours). Legs feel good this morning.|
red face dave|3|15|219 miles|Missed my LSR this week a few little niggles so I said better not push it, a tough week this week is more important|
Younganne|4|31|248.5m|training going well, no problems at the moment TG...hope that continues!
rom|4|29 miles|394.64 miles||
TiptoeMushroom|||260.5km since June 22nd. ||
mazken|4|33|318.8 miles|good step back week! not as daunted about next week's schedule as I thought I'd be! we're getting there...slowly but surely |
maggiemissy|3|28miles|447 miles|Missed one of the 5 milers last week, everythings holding up, so far so good! |
run44 (Aoife)|4|30miles|414.7 miles since June|Starting to feel like a runner now... |
specialk1977|||122| |

Went to physio Saturday. Worked on calf muscle. Said problem i was having was locked tendon in back of knee, and hamstring problem. Worked on these. Started back today with 5mile very very slow run on grass. Leg a little sore in the shin area (front of leg). Booked into the marathon today, but am just taking it day by day at the moment. Will run 10 miles on grass slowly tomorrow and see how this goes.

TomD101

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|4|38 miles|371 miles|Both my and other halves birthday this week, but still got 4 runs done, including my first ever 20 - very happy with how things are going :cool:|
Nules10|2|7|391.5|leg still at me getting worried now |
liamog|1|20|269.1 miles|Didn't make it out for any midweek sessions, my part time college course has started back. Ran a 20 Mile Long Rilun to make up the distance, much better than last week and pace was 5:55/km so more like what I should be training at|
Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
Househunter|5|43.3|584 miles|Good week. Did 5k Liz McDonnell xc race yesterday and was good fun. Got a PB for it too after doing my LSR on Sat so happy with that|
Mr Abbey|||235 miles||
PDCAT|2|7|269.5m|Right leg sore all week, so no running done for second week in a row.
TomD101|3|37|300since 04/07|did the Athlone 3/4 on Sunday. Tore my calf muscle (grade1) and my body proceeded to fall apart. gutted out for 3 weeks|
ShivDCM|2|8|345m|calf strain|
BobMac104|5|41|401.05 |Good week overall. hurt my foot on tuesday but it cleared up fast. Cork to cobh yeaterday (15m) and managed to average 8:30 pace and still felt strong at the end gives me good confidence for dublin (hoping for 4 hours). Legs feel good this morning.|
red face dave|3|15|219 miles|Missed my LSR this week a few little niggles so I said better not push it, a tough week this week is more important|
Younganne|4|31|248.5m|training going well, no problems at the moment TG...hope that continues!
rom|4|29 miles|394.64 miles||
TiptoeMushroom|||260.5km since June 22nd. ||
mazken|4|33|318.8 miles|good step back week! not as daunted about next week's schedule as I thought I'd be! we're getting there...slowly but surely |
maggiemissy|3|28miles|447 miles|Missed one of the 5 milers last week, everythings holding up, so far so good! |
run44 (Aoife)|4|30miles|414.7 miles since June|Starting to feel like a runner now... |
specialk1977|||122| |

Any advice for me Ray? Looks like I'm going to be out for 3 weeks.

Mr Slow

TomD101 wrote: »

Any advice for me Ray? Looks like I'm going to be out for 3 weeks.

Advice? Listen to your physio!

Sorry to hear you're injured.

TomD101

Mr Slow wrote: »

Advice? Listen to your physio!

Sorry to hear you're injured.

Sorry should have been clearer, any advice in terms of training? Its nearly a month to be off before the marathon and my program had me in for another 20 miler. Cycling? Swimming? Running?!

ger664

TomD101 wrote: »

Sorry should have been clearer, any advice in terms of training? Its nearly a month to be off before the marathon and my program had me in for another 20 miler. Cycling? Swimming? Running?!

As Mr Slow said with a grade 1 tear the only person who can advise you with regards to training/marathon is your physio.

sunflowerRo

RayCun wrote: »

There is a bit of a difference, yeah. Partly that's because weeks 15 and 16 have a pace run in Novice2 while Novice1 has a longer midweek run -- Novice1 has more mileage all the way through the plan because it is all run at an easy pace.

For the last few weeks, it doesn't really matter which one you follow - go with whichever you feel more comfortable with.

Sorry Ray!!! I have another question about this. I just read in an article that this should be the week you do your greatest mileage. But for me that was week 11 where I did 5, 8, 5 and 20 (novice 2). Should I really do then 5, 10, 5 and 20 this week (novice 1) to make this my highest mileage week. Sorry, I'm starting to panic majorly over this tapering thing and want to do everything right before I cut down the miles!! :eek:

RacoonQueen

TomD101 wrote: »

Sorry should have been clearer, any advice in terms of training? Its nearly a month to be off before the marathon and my program had me in for another 20 miler. Cycling? Swimming? Running?!

What did your physio say?

You shouldn't be off for too long with a grade 1.

RayCun

TomD101 wrote: »

Any advice for me Ray? Looks like I'm going to be out for 3 weeks.

If you can't run for three weeks there's not a whole lot more to say. Ask your physio if there is any exercise you can do that will help keep your cardio fitness up without prolonging the injury. Don't pig out in the next few weeks. If you can run again by the end of the month, and you still want to do the marathon, lower your time expectations.

RayCun

sunflowerRo wrote: »

Sorry Ray!!! I have another question about this. I just read in an article that this should be the week you do your greatest mileage. But for me that was week 11 where I did 5, 8, 5 and 20 (novice 2). Should I really do then 5, 10, 5 and 20 this week (novice 1) to make this my highest mileage week. Sorry, I'm starting to panic majorly over this tapering thing and want to do everything right before I cut down the miles!! :eek:

Taper madness!
I presume your planned mileage is lower because you're doing a pace run instead of a longer, easy run?

sunflowerRo

RayCun wrote: »

sunflowerRo wrote: »

Sorry Ray!!! I have another question about this. I just read in an article that this should be the week you do your greatest mileage. But for me that was week 11 where I did 5, 8, 5 and 20 (novice 2). Should I really do then 5, 10, 5 and 20 this week (novice 1) to make this my highest mileage week. Sorry, I'm starting to panic majorly over this tapering thing and want to do everything right before I cut down the miles!! :eek:

Taper madness!
I presume your planned mileage is lower because you're doing a pace run instead of a longer, easy run?

I know! I've read about this taper madness but it's not stopping me jumping on the bandwagon
Yeah doing the pace run alright 9 30 min mile for 4 15 marathon. I suppose what I'm really asking is if you think less miles at 9 30 is equivalent to more miles at 10 20 ish. Sorry I know I'm probably asking the same question over again. I blame the taper madness

Tec Diver

liamog wrote: »

I bought a pair of running tights (the Asics Dublin Marathon ones you get free for buying a pair of Asics runners) they've been great for keeping me warm on the runs.

I was running all through the ice/snow last winter and never felt the cold after the first couple of Ks. I don't wear skins, just the usual running shorts. After a few mins (even in -6C) your legs warm up, especially if your torso has a few breathable layers on it. At least that's what works for me...

RayCun

sunflowerRo wrote: »

I know! I've read about this taper madness but it's not stopping me jumping on the bandwagon
Yeah doing the pace run alright 9 30 min mile for 4 15 marathon. I suppose what I'm really asking is if you think less miles at 9 30 is equivalent to more miles at 10 20 ish. Sorry I know I'm probably asking the same question over again. I blame the taper madness

You think you're crazy now, wait until the week before the marathon

Yeah, it's not really the 'longest' week before the taper, it's the 'hardest' week. A marathon pace run is as hard as a longer but slower run.

sunflowerRo

RayCun wrote: »

sunflowerRo wrote: »

I know! I've read about this taper madness but it's not stopping me jumping on the bandwagon
Yeah doing the pace run alright 9 30 min mile for 4 15 marathon. I suppose what I'm really asking is if you think less miles at 9 30 is equivalent to more miles at 10 20 ish. Sorry I know I'm probably asking the same question over again. I blame the taper madness

You think you're crazy now, wait until the week before the marathon

Yeah, it's not really the 'longest' week before the taper, it's the 'hardest' week. A marathon pace run is as hard as a longer but slower run.

Cool thanks. I dread the week before if I'm like a crazed lunatic already

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

If you can't run for three weeks there's not a whole lot more to say. Ask your physio if there is any exercise you can do that will help keep your cardio fitness up without prolonging the injury. Don't pig out in the next few weeks. If you can run again by the end of the month, and you still want to do the marathon, lower your time expectations.

If a physio has him off for 3 weeks he's not going to 'green light' 26.2 miles straight away for good reason.

alanking

Hi Folks

My last few weeks, my long runs have been:
1/10: 22m
24/9: 19m
17/9: 13m (Half Marathon - Race Series)
10/9: 18m
3/9: 17m

Should I do 1 more long run next week (sat 8th Oct) - a 22m?

I plan on tapering after 8/10 - so that gives me 3 full weeks tapering.

Would running 22m for 2 weeks in a row do me more harm than good?

thanks

PS
I reckon by the 31st I'll be posting Q's asking if I should tie my laces right to left or left to right............ :-)

RayCun

How do you feel after the 22? Are you recovering reasonably quickly?

TiptoeMushroom

Was away in Cyprus last week.

VERY VERY hot.

Managed one 5km bfoe feeling like my lungs were on fire.

Swam and walked LOADS though.

About to head out on a nice fast 10km there but cannot find my garmin

Hope I didn't leave it in Cyprus !

alanking

RayCun wrote: »

How do you feel after the 22? Are you recovering reasonably quickly?

Ran it much slower than normal - about 9:15 pace, also wore compression socks - they helped.

Finished strong enough, ran 4miles on Monday at 8:15 pace and lasted ok.
Plan on doing 7 tonight (5 at 7:45 pace).

Part of me wants to do 22 this week, but part is saying no, hold back........

Mr Slow

alanking wrote: »

Ran it much slower than normal - about 9:15 pace, also wore compression socks - they helped.

Finished strong enough, ran 4miles on Monday at 8:15 pace and lasted ok.
Plan on doing 7 tonight (5 at 7:45 pace).

Part of me wants to do 22 this week, but part is saying no, hold back........

In my experience, I could run 22 as easy as 20 and finish strong, the problem is that there's not a lot of return for the extra two miles and depending on what I've done the previous week or have coming up the following week, those extra two miles could just tax me enough (even though I wouldn't feel it on the day) to impact my other workouts negatively.

netmann

RayCun wrote: »

What have been your longest runs so far? You don't really need to do a 22 miler, most novice plans don't go that high because the risk of injury outweighs the benefit of doing the extra miles.
Slowsteady makes a good point about how soon you can get back running, that's worth checking out with your doctor.

Got stitches out today and told I can get back training (had only stopped for one week). Question I have, having missed one week out I only did a 20 mile LSR on Sat last (a week later than planned). The plan I followed was to do a 22 mile LSR this weekend. Is that wise doing 2 LSRs back to back. Legs felt ok after Saturday.
Another question, what sort of pace should the mid week runs be run at now? Faster or slower than planned marathon pace?

RayCun

netmann wrote: »

Got stitches out today and told I can get back training (had only stopped for one week). Question I have, having missed one week out I only did a 20 mile LSR on Sat last (a week later than planned). The plan I followed was to do a 22 mile LSR this weekend. Is that wise doing 2 LSRs back to back. Legs felt ok after Saturday.
Another question, what sort of pace should the mid week runs be run at now? Faster or slower than planned marathon pace?

What plan are you following? Does it say what pace to run at? How many midweek runs do you have?

I wouldn't really advise doing two 20 mile runs back to back (unless you have been running a while and do a lot of miles in a normal week).

netmann

RayCun wrote: »

What plan are you following? Does it say what pace to run at? How many midweek runs do you have?

I wouldn't really advise doing two 20 mile runs back to back (unless you have been running a while and do a lot of miles in a normal week).

Its attached. Was given to me by a friend. Its close to the Halhigdon Novice 2 with 4 midweek runs between 4 and 6 miles usually - Wednesdays and Sundays off. Peaked last week at 40 miles in a week (I'm a week behind, so did week 7 instead of 6 to get in a LSR).

liamog

Mr Slow wrote: »

It hasn't been cold in months plus you're running for miles and miles, why do you need something to keep you warm?:)

I've got a nasty habit of starting long runs at 11pm.

Nules10

sunflowerRo wrote: »

I know! I've read about this taper madness but it's not stopping me jumping on the bandwagon
Yeah doing the pace run alright 9 30 min mile for 4 15 marathon. I suppose what I'm really asking is if you think less miles at 9 30 is equivalent to more miles at 10 20 ish. Sorry I know I'm probably asking the same question over again. I blame the taper madness

good woman i am enjoying reading all the questions. i think i may have went through some kind of madness during my injury or maybe i am just mad full stop :rolleyes: i feel very relaxed... but wish i were going through taper madness with the rest of you Start my new plan tonight

RayCun

netmann wrote: »

Its attached. Was given to me by a friend.

What does he say about the midweek pace?
Since the Intermediate plan in that spreadsheet says that 1 of the four runs should be a session, I would guess there are no sessions in the beginners' plan.

In general though, the midweek runs should be at the same pace as they've been all along. If you've always run one at PMP (or fartlek, or tempo...) keep it up. If you've been running at easy pace up to now, don't speed up because the distances are coming down.