Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

Mr Slow

snailsong wrote: »

Yes

Pick a conservative time for your first, you just don't get the physiological adaptations required to go all out in your first marathon rotation. Enjoyment should be the goal.

RayCun

Well, it's a very long race

In a 5k or a 10k, if you go out too hard and blow up you're still only a short jog from the finish line.
In the marathon, if you're one of the many people who blow up on the way through Clonskeagh you have at least another hour before you get to the finish line, and that hour could feel like days...

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

Well, it's a very long race

In a 5k or a 10k, if you go out too hard and blow up you're still only a short jog from the finish line.
In the marathon, if you're one of the many people who blow up on the way through Clonskeagh you have at least another hour before you get to the finish line, and that hour could feel like days...

Longer!

snailsong

Mr Slow wrote: »

Pick a conservative time for your first, you just don't get the physiological adaptations required to go all out in your first marathon rotation. Enjoyment should be the goal.

The faster I do it, the more I'll enjoy it. I've done a few adventure races of 5 hours or so, so hopefully I won't totally explode. I just hate the sound of conservative. I'm sure I could do it in 4 hours but I'd finish wondering if I could have done 3.30. This way I'll find out. Famous last words?

red face dave

Back running tomorrow thank god;). Got a full massage today and the legs never felt better. I have pains in my calves would this be normal after a massage?Knee is good as well,

Nules10

red face dave wrote: »

Back running tomorrow thank god;). Got a full massage today and the legs never felt better. I have pains in my calves would this be normal after a massage?Knee is good as well,

That's great news Dave. Sometimes those sports massages can feel like a workout themselves. So a bit of soreness is to be expected. Make sure you drink plenty of water this evening after it. Good luck with the run tomorrow:)

red face dave

Thanks Nules
Water?

Nules10

red face dave wrote: »

Thanks Nules
Water?

Yep apparently it helps to flush out the toxins that's what my Pt tells me to do and I do as I am told

red face dave

Interesting he never told me that. It will have to wait until tomorrow if I start drinking now I will be up all night;)

Mr Slow

snailsong wrote: »

The faster I do it, the more I'll enjoy it. I've done a few adventure races of 5 hours or so, so hopefully I won't totally explode. I just hate the sound of conservative. I'm sure I could do it in 4 hours but I'd finish wondering if I could have done 3.30. This way I'll find out. Famous last words?

You could finish nearer to 4 chasing 3:30 too. This is my third marathon, I've worked my a5s off this year and I could probably take a chance and push for a low 3:2x time but that would see me finish in 3:3x without doubt! It's about striking the balance perfectly between doing your training justice and not over reaching. Nobody has ever lamented being cautious for at least the first half of a marathon. Good Luck!

red face dave wrote: »

Thanks Nules
Water?

Very important after a sports massage, flushes the body!

Nules10

red face dave wrote: »

Interesting he never told me that. It will have to wait until tomorrow if I start drinking now I will be up all night;)

Ah could just be my PT's way of getting me to drink more water, but I do feel thirsty after a session so mite have something to do with the fact your muscles are still getting a workout I am sure I read that or I was told that :rolleyes: probably best alright to lay off the water tonight

suseoh

Brianderunner wrote: »

alanking wrote: »

Yeah, as its my 1st one, I'm unsure what to expect. My real goal was a sub 4 1st Marathon, as my training progressed and my times got better, my goal changed!!
3:45 it is. With a push to 3:40. (I really doubt I'll be feeling good towards the end !)

I'd have to agree with that target, especially since its your first marathon. Nothing fun about blowing up and trailing home in over 4 hrs. The last 5-6 mls are handy enough to push on near the end if you can. I'll be pacing 3'45, best of luck with the taper and see you there

I have similar half marathon times the last one I clocked 1.39 and the previous one in June of 1.41. Wil aim for 3.45 and see how I feel. All that said went for 7 mile run and included 4 miles at marathon pace (8.30)and found it tough going. Hard to believe I ran half marathon almost 1 min quicker per mile! I suppose it's just taper madness! I presume I am not the only one having all these fears! (. Lol)
Hope to be joining the 3.45 pacing group.

snailsong

Mr Slow wrote: »

You could finish nearer to 4 chasing 3:30 too. This is my third marathon, I've worked my a5s off this year and I could probably take a chance and push for a low 3:2x time but that would see me finish in 3:3x without doubt! It's about striking the balance perfectly between doing your training justice and not over reaching. Nobody has ever lamented being cautious for at least the first half of a marathon. Good Luck!

I think my best chance of 3.30 is by running even pace. In my innocence I believe I have a reasonable chance of achieving it. If I get to halfway and realise its not on then hopefully I can revert to plan B. If the worst happens and I take 4 then I won't beat myself up over it.

Thanks for the advice guys and I look forward to meeting you all on the day. Look out for runner no. 2440.

shivDCM

snailsong wrote: »

I think my best chance of 3.30 is by running even pace. In my innocence I believe I have a reasonable chance of achieving it. If I get to halfway and realise its not on then hopefully I can revert to plan B. If the worst happens and I take 4 then I won't beat myself up over it.

Thanks for the advice guys and I look forward to meeting you all on the day. Look out for runner no. 2440.

good to see different opinions.
best of luck with it.

run44

red face dave wrote: »

Back running tomorrow thank god;). Got a full massage today and the legs never felt better. I have pains in my calves would this be normal after a massage?Knee is good as well,

I got a sports massage yesterday myself. It was the first I've gotten and felt great after it. Also has a bit a pain in the calves but am grand now this morning! Hope its the same with yourself and you're not feeling it too much now.

Tec Diver

Mr Slow wrote: »

I agree of course on the running style but if his current runners are knackered as mine were recently, extra padding can only help. It all depends of course on how sensitive to small changes his biomechanics are.

Well I agree and disagre. I agree that using runners with very worn soles is going to hurt boimechanically, but I disagree that extra padding is the correct way to go. I'm more of a minimalist runner, well I'm converting anyway! I don't think lots of padding will improve anyone's form.
As to a previous post, these days runners don't need to be broken in. Either they are comfortable and are a right fit for you or not. If they hurt after your first run in them then that ain't going to improve...
(just my opinions, so don't anyone go getting all hot & bothered about it!)

BobMac104

Tec Diver wrote: »

Well I agree and disagre. I agree that using runners with very worn soles is going to hurt boimechanically, but I disagree that extra padding is the correct way to go. I'm more of a minimalist runner, well I'm converting anyway! I don't think lots of padding will improve anyone's form.
As to a previous post, these days runners don't need to be broken in. Either they are comfortable and are a right fit for you or not. If they hurt after your first run in them then that ain't going to improve...
(just my opinions, so don't anyone go getting all hot & bothered about it!)

I dont think any one will be working on their form 2.5 weeks out from a marathon so if his current running style warrants more cushoning then so be it. There is plenty of time for transitioning to minimalist running afterwards if the runner is so inclined.

Mr Slow

Tec Diver wrote: »

Well I agree and disagre. I agree that using runners with very worn soles is going to hurt boimechanically, but I disagree that extra padding is the correct way to go. I'm more of a minimalist runner, well I'm converting anyway! I don't think lots of padding will improve anyone's form.
As to a previous post, these days runners don't need to be broken in. Either they are comfortable and are a right fit for you or not. If they hurt after your first run in them then that ain't going to improve...
(just my opinions, so don't anyone go getting all hot & bothered about it!)

Sorry I wasn't clear, what I meant was if his knees/ankles are being affected by worn out runners then new runners will help.

devilsad

Hi,

I posted recently about the training schedule in the book I have, 'Running your first marathon'. In it, her schedule had me doing my 20 mile run this weekend and a 10 mile run two days before the race. All who replied agreed that 10 miles two days before the race is madness. Some suggested that 20 miles two weeks before was too close.

Anyhow, I ran 20 miles this morning and feel great. It was a fairly big milestone to reach having previously done 17 miles as my longest run. Here's my plan for the next two weeks, does this sound reasonable?

Next two days off, followed by a run every two days of:

4 Miles
5 Miles
4 Miles
10 Miles (book suggests 13, I think that's too much)

Final week

2 miles
3 miles
2 miles
and 2 miles the day before the race

I also used energy sweets today for the first time and they definately helped.

Finally, what should I eat on the morning of the race? This morning I have a bowl of weetabix with milk and a slice of toast with jam, that seemed to work fine.

Thanks.

Muppet Man

devilsad wrote: »

I also used energy sweets today for the first time and they definately helped.

Just curious - what energy sweets did you take and at what distance? Where did you get them. I'm a Gu Gel man myself. First marathon myself, so cant comment on the Taper plan you posted. Good Luck to you!

Muppet Man

RayCun

devilsad wrote: »

Finally, what should I eat on the morning of the race? This morning I have a bowl of weetabix with milk and a slice of toast with jam, that seemed to work fine.

Stick with that then.
Your planned runs look fine too.

dubrich

Hi, DCM will be first marathon.

Can run 10k in 39m.
Ran the 3/4 in 2:45 but took it easy. Legs tired but heart & lungs fine.

Dilemma is - Aim for 3 and risk blowing up or 3:20 which would be manageable enough? Any advice?

Thanks

RayCun

dubrich wrote: »

Can run 10k in 39m.
Ran the 3/4 in 2:45 but took it easy. Legs tired but heart & lungs fine.

Dilemma is - Aim for 3 and risk blowing up or 3:20 which would be manageable enough? Any advice?

What else have you run - half marathons, 10 miles, etc? What's your typical weekly mileage? What kind of long runs have you been doing?

I think sub 3 from a 39 minute 10k is reaching, especially for your first marathon.

devilsad

Muppet Man wrote: »

Just curious - what energy sweets did you take and at what distance? Where did you get them. I'm a Gu Gel man myself. First marathon myself, so cant comment on the Taper plan you posted. Good Luck to you!

Muppet Man

I'm sorry, I don't know the name of them. They're at home now. I'll post the name later. They're about the size of two wine gum. They were cola flavour and had some sort of liquid mixture in the middle. I ate one after an hour, after two hours and then at about 2 hrs 30 as I knew I hadn't too long to go. I imagine I'll eat one every hour with water in the race. Good luck to you too.

Thanks RayCun!

rainbow kirby

^ Powerbar Ride Shots?

GoHardOrGoHome

Hi I'm looking for advice for my sister.

She doesn't know whether to go for the 4:15 pace group or the 4:30 pace group.

Here are some times she has run:

20th August - 10 miles – 1h 38
3rd September - 13 miles – 2h
8th October - 20 miles – 3h30

The 10 mile and 13 mile were in races. She finished happy and uninjured and ready for more.

The 20 miler she found fine. She's tired this week but did a 5 mile on Monday and a 8 mile last night. 10 mile on Saturday.

Any thoughts?

PDCAT

GoHardOrGoHome wrote: »

Hi I'm looking for advice for my sister.

She doesn't know whether to go for the 4:15 pace group or the 4:30 pace group.

Here are some times she has run:

20th August - 10 miles – 1h 38
3rd September - 13 miles – 2h
8th October - 20 miles – 3h30

The 10 mile and 13 mile were in races. She finished happy and uninjured and ready for more.

The 20 miler she found fine. She's tired this week but did a 5 mile on Monday and a 8 mile last night. 10 mile on Saturday.

Any thoughts?

Based on her 13 miler - i would say 4.30.
My wife has 10mile time of 1.33 and half marathon time of 2.02 and she is going with 4.30 group.

RayCun

GoHardOrGoHome wrote: »

20th August - 10 miles – 1h 38
3rd September - 13 miles – 2h

Hmm, I think the people from last year's novices' thread who broke 2 hours in the half marathon came in around 4.15 in the marathon.

Has she been following a proper training plan, getting a lot of long runs in? How important is it to her to get the 4.15 this time? Would she rather risk blowing up than finish in 4.25 thinking she could have gone faster?

Edited to add - when you say 2 hours for 13 miles, do you mean 1.58 or 2.02?

Mr Slow

I think 4:30 might be too slow and 4:15 might be a push, it's a tough one!

run44

Yeah, I'm in the same boat - somewhere in between would be what I could do without pushing it or feeling like I could do more!

Will probably stick with the 4.30 group and pull away if I have anything left in the tank around the 20 mile mark