Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

GoHardOrGoHome

Thanks for all the quick responses!

PDCAT wrote: »

Based on her 13 miler - i would say 4.30.
My wife has 10mile time of 1.33 and half marathon time of 2.02 and she is going with 4.30 group.

that was my original thought: 4:30 and then decided what the hive mind would come back with!

RayCun wrote: »

Hmm, I think the people from last year's novices' thread who broke 2 hours in the half marathon came in around 4.15 in the marathon.

Has she been following a proper training plan, getting a lot of long runs in? How important is it to her to get the 4.15 this time? Would she rather risk blowing up than finish in 4.25 thinking she could have gone faster?

Edited to add - when you say 2 hours for 13 miles, do you mean 1.58 or 2.02?

She has been following a very out-dated rough plan. She's done an 18 miler, 14 miler since the half marathon in addition to the others. Could be a couple of other long runs. Not as many long runs as I wanted her to do but she's coped well with each one.

She checked her watch during the half marathon and realised she could get under 2 hours so upped her pace and came in at 1:59:xx. Gun time is 2:00:33.

She doesn't have her heart set on the 4:15. I think she'd rather comfortably do 4:25 than painfully do 4:20 after slowing down.

run44 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm in the same boat - somewhere in between would be what I could do without pushing it or feeling like I could do more!

Will probably stick with the 4.30 group and pull away if I have anything left in the tank around the 20 mile mark

I like that idea. Much nicer to do be able to pass people in the last 5 miles than to be passed.

Mr Slow wrote: »

I think 4:30 might be too slow and 4:15 might be a push, it's a tough one!

Exactly my (her) dilemma!

If she stays with the 4:30 group until 20 miles and then tries to push on. As much as anyone can in their first marathon!

Thanks for all your thoughts!

GoHard

menoscemo

@Gohard.
Not everyone has to run with a pace group nor should they and in fact most people won't.
I would suggest she lines up between the 4:15 and 4:30 groups and stay between them. She can still use the 4:15 group as guide, i.e. if she catches up or passes them, she is going too fast. It sounds like she could comfortably be capapble of about 4:20, but if she sticks with the 4;30 group until 20 miles, the most she is going to take of her time is a few minutes.

RayCun

GoHardOrGoHome wrote: »

She doesn't have her heart set on the 4:15. I think she'd rather comfortably do 4:25 than painfully do 4:20 after slowing down.

That answers the question then - she should go with the 4.30 group.

Or yes, as meno says, just run herself.

Ah_go_on

Starting to panic as I intended to do a 22 miler this Saturday until I read this thread and realised I should be tapering from now I've only managed a 19.75 and a 19.1 miler over the last 2 weekends and really struggled the last two miles. Up to that I've done a 16 and 18 miler with the half marathon and an adventure race in between. My midweek training has been erratic due to work and I've averaged about 23-25 miles a week. I'm starting to think I haven't done enough. Originally I wudve liked a 4:20-4:30, it's my 1st marathon, did d half in 1:57. Just want to be able to finish now

Should I do the 22 miles this saturday????

RayCun

Ah_go_on wrote: »

Starting to panic as I intended to do a 22 miler this Saturday until I read this thread and realised I should be tapering from now I've only managed a 19.75 and a 19.1 miler over the last 2 weekends and really struggled the last two miles.

There's really no need to run 22 miles, a lot of marathon plans - especially for novices - wouldn't have a run that long. 2 runs over 19 miles is plenty. Just relax, let your legs recover,and enjoy the taper...

Ah_go_on

RayCun wrote: »

Ah_go_on wrote: »

Starting to panic as I intended to do a 22 miler this Saturday until I read this thread and realised I should be tapering from now I've only managed a 19.75 and a 19.1 miler over the last 2 weekends and really struggled the last two miles.

There's really no need to run 22 miles, a lot of marathon plans - especially for novices - wouldn't have a run that long. 2 runs over 19 miles is plenty. Just relax, let your legs recover,and enjoy the taper...

Thanks Ray, what would be ideal long run distances for the next 2 weekends?

red face dave

run44 wrote: »

I got a sports massage yesterday myself. It was the first I've gotten and felt great after it. Also has a bit a pain in the calves but am grand now this morning! Hope its the same with yourself and you're not feeling it too much now.

Felt good this morning after the the physio. Went for a run today it felt wired not to running on tired legs

alanking

Ah_go_on wrote: »

Thanks Ray, what would be ideal long run distances for the next 2 weekends?

Interested in Rays answer to this as well.

I've done a few runs over 18m (highest @22m).
Midweek this week I had 2 short runs (as opposed to 3 normally).

I plan on running 15 miles LSR on Sat, run 2-3 times the following week (short distances 4-6miles each with a small bit of speedwork mixed in) then
10 miles the following Sat for a LSR.

Currently legs feel great - also plan a sports massage next week.

Muppet Man

I plan on running 15 miles LSR on Sat, run 2-3 times the following week (short distances 4-6miles each with a small bit of speedwork mixed in) then
10 miles the following Sat for a LSR.

Hey - thats my taper plan! Not saying its right though...

Muppet man.

RayCun

alanking wrote: »

I plan on running 15 miles LSR on Sat, run 2-3 times the following week (short distances 4-6miles each with a small bit of speedwork mixed in) then
10 miles the following Sat for a LSR.

I was going to say 14 and 8, since that's what's on the Hal Higdon plan, but 15 and 10 is fine too.

Remember, the long runs should still be run at LSR pace. In fact all of your regular runs should be done at the normal pace - don't start running faster because you're running shorter distances.

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

I was going to say 14 and 8, since that's what's on the Hal Higdon plan, but 15 and 10 is fine too.

Remember, the long runs should still be run at LSR pace. In fact all of your regular runs should be done at the normal pace - don't start running faster because you're running shorter distances.

^+1

The three weeks of taper generally go like this - 75%,50% and then 25% of peak weekly mileage.

BobMac104

alanking wrote: »

Interested in Rays answer to this as well.


I plan on running 15 miles LSR on Sat, run 2-3 times the following week (short distances 4-6miles each with a small bit of speedwork mixed in) then
10 miles the following Sat for a LSR.

Currently legs feel great - also plan a sports massage next week.

i am going for similar to this plan as well i think.

BobMac104

Mr Slow wrote: »

^+1

The three weeks of taper generally go like this - 75%,50% and then 25% of peak weekly mileage.

good info thanks Mr Slow

Should we aply this to each run seperately or just on the weekly total? (or does it matter)

Mr Slow

BobMac104 wrote: »

good info thanks Mr Slow

Should we aply this to each run seperately or just on the weekly total? (or does it matter)

It's a rough guide, if you're not following a program then use it as a rule of thumb but maintain the intensity of your workouts!

ger664

RayCun wrote: »

I was going to say 14 and 8, since that's what's on the Hal Higdon plan, but 15 and 10 is fine too.

Remember, the long runs should still be run at LSR pace. In fact all of your regular runs should be done at the normal pace - don't start running faster because you're running shorter distances.

This is most important as you get nearer to race day and your legs start to fell really fresh. Do not be tempted to a PB 5k in training or something stupid that takes it out of your legs or worse still you pull or jar something in the process.

On my first marathon due to a family bereavement I did no run for the taper period. It had no effect on my race and I think it actually helped me.

So less is more in the taper.

Younganne

I haven't done any running since Wed (5th) with a 5 m pace run..I'im on antibiotics and still not fully fit to run, so hoping the lack of running will not impact too much...hope to get out for a run on Sunday depending on how i feel.. would anything over 5m be foolish??

RayCun

Younganne wrote: »

I haven't done any running since Wed (5th) with a 5 m pace run..I'im on antibiotics and still not fully fit to run, so hoping the lack of running will not impact too much...hope to get out for a run on Sunday depending on how i feel.. would anything over 5m be foolish??

In the last two weeks before the marathon, nothing you can do will make yourself any fitter. Your aerobic capacity, ability to burn fat, basic muscle strength - not going to get any better.
All you can really do in this period is recover - let your muscles rebuild after the exertions of the training programme, let your energy stores get back to normal, and maybe recover some of the sharpness you've lost from all the long miles.

If you're on antibiotics and not fit to run further, there is absolutely nothing to gain from running more than 5 miles, and possibly a lot to lose in delaying your recovery.

Younganne

RayCun wrote: »

In the last two weeks before the marathon, nothing you can do will make yourself any fitter. Your aerobic capacity, ability to burn fat, basic muscle strength - not going to get any better.
All you can really do in this period is recover - let your muscles rebuild after the exertions of the training programme, let your energy stores get back to normal, and maybe recover some of the sharpness you've lost from all the long miles.

If you're on antibiotics and not fit to run further, there is absolutely nothing to gain from running more than 5 miles, and possibly a lot to lose in delaying your recovery.

As always thanks for the sound advice....:D

now another question... I'm hoping for sub 4.30, this yrs race times - 10 m in 1:32 mins, half in 1:57m, I have been training LSR at ave pace of 11mpm...what pace per mile do i need to run to get under the 4.30,
feel i could probably do 4.20 but bit unsure... I'm doing front line start so won't be able to go with the pace groups so hope to get my own pace going and stick to it....is 10 m mile what I should be aiming for or should i go a bit slower and increase nearer the end if its in the legs!!!!

Mr Slow

What do you mean 'front line start'?

PDCAT

Younganne wrote: »

As always thanks for the sound advice....:D

now another question... I'm hoping for sub 4.30, this yrs race times - 10 m in 1:32 mins, half in 1:57m, I have been training LSR at ave pace of 11mpm...what pace per mile do i need to run to get under the 4.30,
feel i could probably do 4.20 but bit unsure... I'm doing front line start so won't be able to go with the pace groups so hope to get my own pace going and stick to it....is 10 m mile what I should be aiming for or should i go a bit slower and increase nearer the end if its in the legs!!!!

4.30 pace is 10.19 minute per mile.

Judging by your half marathon time, a 4.20 marathon looks possible.

Younganne

Mr Slow wrote: »

What do you mean 'front line start'?

The front line start is set up behind the elite runners and a different organisation is picked every few yrs to do it. The Garda Síochána are doing it again this year and it means that they get to start at the front and the Garda band play national anthem and play music etc!!!

Mr Slow

Younganne wrote: »

The front line start is set up behind the elite runners and a different organisation is picked every few yrs to do it. The Garda Síochána are doing it again this year and it means that they get to start at the front and the Garda band play national anthem and play music etc!!!

Runners of all abilities in the front of 13,000 people?:eek: How many are involved?

menoscemo

Younganne wrote: »

The front line start is set up behind the elite runners and a different organisation is picked every few yrs to do it. The Garda Síochána are doing it again this year and it means that they get to start at the front and the Garda band play national anthem and play music etc!!!

This is a really bad idea. There will be guys and girls charging out at 5 min/mile pace trying to pass people people going at half that speed. Recipe for a serious accident there.

pistol_75

menoscemo wrote: »

This is a really bad idea. There will be guys and girls charging out at 5 min/mile pace trying to pass people people going at half that speed. Recipe for a serious accident there.

As meno says I think if you do this you could be in for a very uncomfortable first hour of your race, providing your not trampled at the start. Might be safer for you to start in the designated area.

PDCAT

Younganne wrote: »

The front line start is set up behind the elite runners and a different organisation is picked every few yrs to do it. The Garda Síochána are doing it again this year and it means that they get to start at the front and the Garda band play national anthem and play music etc!!!

Hi Younganne

You'll probably spend most of the marathon being passed out by people. May not be so good for your morale/motivation when it gets tough.

Younganne

This has been done every year and there is never an issue, people who are not going at the faster pace stick to the outside and don't interfere with the runners... its actually a disadvantage to those runners who won't be doing sub 3 hrs as they tend to go out too fast and never recover....i did it last year and there was no issues....

RayCun

Younganne wrote: »

This has been done every year and there is never an issue, people who are not going at the faster pace stick to the outside and don't interfere with the runners... its actually a disadvantage to those runners who won't be doing sub 3 hrs as they tend to go out too fast and never recover....i did it last year and there was no issues....

Around how many people in the group?
It can't cause much problem for the faster runners if they keep doing it every year - I agree, it's probably more of a problem for the front line starting group who think they're going slowly but aren't going slow enough...

Younganne

RayCun wrote: »

Around how many people in the group?
It can't cause much problem for the faster runners if they keep doing it every year - I agree, it's probably more of a problem for the front line starting group who think they're going slowly but aren't going slow enough...

Ball park figure 100 runners, but alot of them would be sub 3.30, a good few sub 3. Marathon committee pick the organisation each year, so if it was a big issue i don't think it would continue...most runners don't even realise it is happening!.

Last yr as the 4.30 pacers passed me i knew i wasn't going to get a sub 4.30 as i had 8 min head start on that so yes that is the down side,4.41 was my time, what's on the clock is same as the chip.

cr17

Hey all, this is all getting a bit real now. Little nervous as training hasnt gone as planned. Just did my longest run on monday night of 16m (pace 9:45).(Nice to go in rain for once) ..Probably a bit quick as hurt for few days. Scared about doing something similar this weekend so instead of getting a 18 or 20 in which would have been good mentally I,m just going to revert back to original plan, do a 12 and then a few small ones before big day. ... Still hoping for 3:59:59 but I know myself training hasnt been great but I,ll give a good go.
Good luck to all

Mr Slow

Younganne wrote: »

Ball park figure 100 runners, but alot of them would be sub 3.30, a good few sub 3. Marathon committee pick the organisation each year, so if it was a big issue i don't think it would continue...most runners don't even realise it is happening!.

Last yr as the 4.30 pacers passed me i knew i wasn't going to get a sub 4.30 as i had 8 min head start on that so yes that is the down side,4.41 was my time, what's on the clock is same as the chip.

Fair enough, I hadn't heard of it, every day's an education.

To answer your original question, I ran the half in 1:53 last year and finished at 4:15 at DCM, sub 4:30 should be handy enough for you.