Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

mayoblondie

I did my first marathon last year in Dublin was optimistically hoping for sub 4.30, my PB in a half beforehand was 1.57 but all went well beyond belief on the day and came in 3.53. This has probably had a negative effect on this years mindset though as I feel my legs are probably a bit stronger so I should at least match last years time (and of course in my head I should smash it out of orbit!!!:D) but who knows what can happen on the day.
I didn’t see this thread last year but I’ve been glued to it this year and definitely going through the taper madness…if I do anymore calculations I think my head will explode…my 26 times tables are superb at this stage!!!:D

PDCAT

mayoblondie wrote: »

I did my first marathon last year in Dublin was optimistically hoping for sub 4.30, my PB in a half beforehand was 1.57 but all went well beyond belief on the day and came in 3.53. This has probably had a negative effect on this years mindset though as I feel my legs are probably a bit stronger so I should at least match last years time (and of course in my head I should smash it out of orbit!!!:D) but who knows what can happen on the day.
I didn’t see this thread last year but I’ve been glued to it this year and definitely going through the taper madness…if I do anymore calculations I think my head will explode…my 26 times tables are superb at this stage!!!:D

Thanks some improvement last year from 1.57 half to a 3.53 full marathon. Fair play.

Younganne

mayoblondie wrote: »

I did my first marathon last year in Dublin was optimistically hoping for sub 4.30, my PB in a half beforehand was 1.57 but all went well beyond belief on the day and came in 3.53.

in my wildest dreams, don't think that would be possible for me.....but here's hoping!!!

Well done you!

RayCun

mayoblondie wrote: »

if I do anymore calculations I think my head will explode…my 26 times tables are superb at this stage!!!:D

To save exploding head problems on race day itself, everyone should print out a pace band (or get one from the pacers' stand at the Expo, if you are running one of those times)

A pace band is a ribbon of paper that you wrap around your wrist (covered in sellotape so it doesn't disintegrate in sweat ) If you print a pace band for four hours, for example (and in miles, since Dublin has mile markers) it will say
Mile 1: 9.09
Mile 2: 18.18
Mile 3: 27.27
and so on.

Every time you get to a mile marker you look at your watch and look at your pace band, and you can see if you are on target or not. No need for any complicated multiplication (trust me, it will feel complicated), just compare the time on your watch to the time on the pace band.

Younganne

RayCun wrote: »

To save exploding head problems on race day itself, everyone should print out a pace band (or get one from the pacers' stand at the Expo, if you are running one of those times)

A pace band is a ribbon of paper that you wrap around your wrist (covered in sellotape so it doesn't disintegrate in sweat ) If you print a pace band for four hours, for example (and in miles, since Dublin has mile markers) it will say
Mile 1: 9.09
Mile 2: 18.18
Mile 3: 27.27
and so on.

Every time you get to a mile marker you look at your watch and look at your pace band, and you can see if you are on target or not. No need for any complicated multiplication (trust me, it will feel complicated), just compare the time on your watch to the time on the pace band.

Have to agree with Ray re the pace bands...i had two on last yr, 4.30 (wishful thinking) and 4.45 (more reasonable goal) and i used them both as a guide..i managed to finished between them in 4.41....

they help you to keep focused, especially if some of the miles are not evenly paced so you don't need to keep guessing your pace...its right there on your arm and they stand the distance!!
I got them at the Expo and there is always plenty...with great advise from the pacers too...


Not running evenly paced miles is if not running with pace group..all the pace groups do evenly paced miles!

Brewski78

Hi guys,

Looking for some advice on what pacers to follow. I missed the half so last race was the 10m in August and finished in 1hr 26m, my last few LSRs have been:
20mile 3hr 36m
14mile 2hr 18m
18mile 3hr 26m
16mile 2hr 56m
15mile 2hr 35m

Any advice would be much appreciated, first marathon so have no clue. Have been running PMP runs at 9 min miles but LSRs paces are varying wildly throughout the run (and finishing in a crawl).

Thanks.

RayCun

I take it your LSRs are starting off close to 9 minute miles and ending at over 10 minute miles? This is why you should start them slowly...

How long have you been running? Have you run any other races? How has the rest of your training gone? I'd be inclined to say you should go with the 4.15 group (or make yourself a pace band for 4.10).

Brewski78

Only properly running this year following the HH novice supreme, before this year did the odd 5 mile or 10k race but with no great prep. Only other real race this year was the Docklands 8k and finished in 41mins 48s so maybe I haven't raced enough.

Feel training has gone well generally but the last few miles of each LSR has really been a struggle. On the mid week PMP runs I've stuck well to 9min miles and even slightly faster but when it comes to the LSR I've gone out too fast like you've said and paid the price at the end - I'm hoping to stick to the pacers and hopefully that will solve the problem in the big race.

RayCun

Right, probably best to go in wave 3 then and stay behind the 4.15 pacers (they'll be at the very beginning of the wave).
For the first few miles you'll think they're going too slow, and at the halfway point you'll still think it's fairly easy - but by Clonskeagh you'll be glad you stayed with them.

Brewski78

Will do, thanks Ray.

dubrich

RayCun wrote: »

What else have you run - half marathons, 10 miles, etc? What's your typical weekly mileage? What kind of long runs have you been doing?

I think sub 3 from a 39 minute 10k is reaching, especially for your first marathon.

Thanks... Not much else to be honest. Just the one 3/4. Weekly mileage low. Plan was to get 3 20 milers between 1 & 14 oct but strained back of knee on 5th so just going to rest it until final week, then two 10k... (all of this is based on being injury free). i box/cycle most days so cardio & fitness is fine.

maybe better of with 3:15

RayCun

dubrich wrote: »

Thanks... Not much else to be honest. Just the one 3/4. Weekly mileage low. Plan was to get 3 20 milers between 1 & 14 oct but strained back of knee on 5th so just going to rest it until final week, then two 10k... (all of this is based on being injury free). i box/cycle most days so cardio & fitness is fine.
maybe better of with 3:15

You are probably going to find the last section of the course very difficult. Running a marathon isn't just about general cardio fitness, it's also about being adapted for running long distances - running efficiently without wasted effort, training your body to burn fat for fuel as well as carbohydrates, and recruiting other muscles to maintain leg speed.
If your weekly mileage has been low then you've missed out on this adaptation. You could be very fast for 10-20k, but around 30k things will get a lot harder. You should run conservatively up to that point so you don't crash hard.

Mr Slow

Totally agree with Ray, those midweek runs are vital!

dubrich

RayCun wrote: »

You are probably going to find the last section of the course very difficult. Running a marathon isn't just about general cardio fitness, it's also about being adapted for running long distances - running efficiently without wasted effort, training your body to burn fat for fuel as well as carbohydrates, and recruiting other muscles to maintain leg speed.
If your weekly mileage has been low then you've missed out on this adaptation. You could be very fast for 10-20k, but around 30k things will get a lot harder. You should run conservatively up to that point so you don't crash hard.

Hmm, thanks. I did the 19.6 miles in athlone, for 18 i took it nice and easy to get the feel for a long time on the road, went with the 2.50 pacers, felt the pain in the legs for sure, but sprinted well for the last 1.6 and did it in 2:45, still felt a good bit in the tank.... but all said and done, it ain't 26 miles!

I'm trying to persuade myself not to go for 3.00 (achievable or not), saying patience is key and that there will be more marathons - but the temptation is great...

RayCun

dubrich wrote: »

Hmm, thanks. I did the 19.6 miles in athlone, for 18 i took it nice and easy to get the feel for a long time on the road, went with the 2.50 pacers, felt the pain in the legs for sure, but sprinted well for the last 1.6 and did it in 2:45, still felt a good bit in the tank.... but all said and done, it ain't 26 miles!

I'm trying to persuade myself not to go for 3.00 (achievable or not), saying patience is key and that there will be more marathons - but the temptation is great...

The 2.50 pacers in Athlone were basing their pace on a projected full marathon time of 3.30, not 3 hours. They ran just under 9 minute miles in the first 10k, and just under 8.30s for the next 20k. Athlone is basically a well-supported training run.
3 hour marathon pace is 7 minute miles, a hell of a lot faster.

dubrich

Plenty to think about - thanks RayCun

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

3 hour marathon pace is 7 minute miles, a hell of a lot faster.

6:50 pace actually.

mush500

hi guys just wanted some advice on my proposed pace for DCM. I was initially hoping for close to 4h but think 4.15 is more accurate now. I did the 5M and 10M in 44.10 and 1.29 and have been doing my shorter runs between 9-10min/mile. Did one 20m LSR 3 weekends ago but really blew up in the last 5miles(think i went too fast early on) but then did another last weekend at consistent 11min/mile and felt comfortable for the whole run and even felt relatively good after.

mcmillan was suggesting between 4.11 and 4.17 so does 4.15 seem realistic?
Also when i signed up i picked the second wave, but of the 4.15 pacers are in wave three will i be able to change wave starts? thanks for any advice in advance!

RayCun

Have you been following a training plan? Have you completed other long runs, 15+ miles, and plenty of other midweek runs?
There's no problem moving down a wave, from wave 2 to wave 3.

RayCun

Monday | Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
rest|4m/6k|6m/10k|3m/5k|rest|8m/13k|cross


You should be feeling a little less tired now, and even better by the end of the week.
But don't worry if your legs still feel heavy and you still have aches and pains and twinges. This is all perfectly normal.
And if your legs don't feel heavy, and you don't have any twinges - that doesn't mean you should go out and do some faster miles.
Stick to the plan. Take it easy. Keep the pace down.

(If you want a bit of variety, do some strides at the end of your midweek run)

RayCun

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|||404 miles||
Nules10|||418.5||
Househunter|||636 miles||
Mr Abbey|||332 miles||
PDCAT|||304.5m|
ShivDCM|||377m||
BobMac104|||449.05 ||
red face dave|||256 miles||
Younganne|||253.5m|
rom|||427.77 miles||
mazken|||358.8 miles| |
run44 (Aoife)|||451.7 miles since June||
maggiemissy|||487 miles||

mush500

Hi Ray yes have followed HH intermediate plan more or less, haven't been doing the second run on weekends for PMP.

Nules10

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|||404 miles||
Nules10|4|39|457.5|17m LSR today. needed to do this. went well. taper for me now|
Househunter|||636 miles||
Mr Abbey|||332 miles||
PDCAT|||304.5m|
ShivDCM|||377m||
BobMac104|||449.05 ||
red face dave|||256 miles||
Younganne|||253.5m|
rom|||427.77 miles||
mazken|||358.8 miles| |
run44 (Aoife)|||451.7 miles since June||
maggiemissy|||487 miles||

run44

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|||404 miles||
Nules10|4|39|457.5|17m LSR today. needed to do this. went well. taper for me now|
Househunter|||636 miles||
Mr Abbey|||332 miles||
PDCAT|||304.5m|
ShivDCM|||377m||
BobMac104|||449.05 ||
red face dave|||256 miles||
Younganne|||253.5m|
rom|||427.77 miles||
mazken|||358.8 miles| |
run44 (Aoife)|4|28.7m|480.4 miles|All going well so far. Legs feeling fresh.|
maggiemissy|||487 miles||

RayCun

mush500 wrote: »

Hi Ray yes have followed HH intermediate plan more or less, haven't been doing the second run on weekends for PMP.

You should be good for 4.15 so.

suseoh

Hi again,
Starting to get a bit anxious now! Was wondering what time I should be at the start at ? Considering I like to be early for everything and would like to be in my starting position before any crush begins! I am starting in the 3.30-4.15 wave .
Also was on the marathon Facebook page and Dick Hooper mentioned he thought 3 weeks was too long a taper!
Too late for me! Have tapered to 35 miles this week.
I also noticed that on the DCM website they have training programmes which included very long runs this weekend. I did 22 last week and tapered down to 12 this week. Are all these questions symptoms of taper madness ? ? (lol)

Mr Slow

suseoh wrote: »

I also noticed that on the DCM website they have training programmes which included very long runs this weekend. I did 22 last week and tapered down to 12 this week. Are all these questions symptoms of taper madness ? ? (lol)

There's differing opinions on the optimum taper period but most agree that for novices where the recovery time may not be a as quick as more seasoned runners that 3 weeks ticks the box nicely. A general rule of thumb is 75%,50% and 25% of peak mileage through taper.

suseoh

Mr Slow wrote: »

suseoh wrote: »

I also noticed that on the DCM website they have training programmes which included very long runs this weekend. I did 22 last week and tapered down to 12 this week. Are all these questions symptoms of taper madness ? ? (lol)

There's differing opinions on the optimum taper period but most agree that for novices where the recovery time may not be a as quick as more seasoned runners that 3 weeks ticks the box nicely. A general rule of thumb is 75%,50% and 25% of peak mileage through taper.

Thanks for that Mr. Slow! A sensible voice in the midst of the madness !

ontheditch2

Still undecided what time to go with the pacers for. Had initially planned 4.30, but then thought i would try the 4.15, and even had a brief idea of going with the 4 group for a while.
But went for longest run today, got in 19m in 3.30, and was comfortable enough, Only had one sports drink, and no water, so i imagine with proper preperation i should be able to go faster?? Couldn't of pushed much harder, but was comfortable in myself.
Think i might still try to stick to the 4.15 group and see how that goes. I am comfortably running 10km/h pace in my shorter runs without exerting myself too much.

Am i trying to do too much with 4.15??

Thanks

RayCun

Have you run any races? They are a much better predictor of your best pace.