Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

RayCun

Nules10 wrote: »

Hi ray... probably a silly question. Since i started my taper a week later should i slot in and follow the above for this week.

Sure, just pick up the plan from here.

netmann

Hi Ray,

What sort of time should I aim for? I've an 18 M, 2 x 20 mile and a 22 mile LSR done.
Previous races.
5K 21mins
8K 39 Mins
two halfs in 1.43 and 1.47

RayCun

netmann wrote: »

Hi Ray,

What sort of time should I aim for? I've an 18 M, 2 x 20 mile and a 22 mile LSR done.
Previous races.
5K 21mins
8K 39 Mins
two halfs in 1.43 and 1.47

Should be okay for under 4 hours, I'd say go with the 4 hour pacers and maybe push on in the closing miles if you feel good.

netmann

RayCun wrote: »

Should be okay for under 4 hours, I'd say go with the 4 hour pacers and maybe push on in the closing miles if you feel good.

Thanks a mil. I'd be thrilled to break 4 hours - especially if I shake off an injury picked up yesterday.

dang

RayCun wrote: »

Do you always run first thing in the morning? What about midweek runs?

Yes this morning I went for a run before work. Other times I would go in the evenings at about 6pm but the last time I would have eaten that day would have been about 1/1:30pm so by the time I do my run I wouldn't have eaten in about 4.5/5 hours.

I know I can run after a good few hours after eating, it's just what is best for me when I don't usually eat up to 2/3 hours before running. I might actually go for my run later in the morning at the weekend and have something to eat 3 hours before and see how I feel.

RayCun

dang wrote: »

I know I can run after a good few hours after eating, it's just what is best for me when I don't usually eat up to 2/3 hours before running. I might actually go for my run later in the morning at the weekend and have something to eat 3 hours before and see how I feel.

It's worth testing all right. The marathon starts at 10am this year, so you have time for food around 6.30/7am before you go in to the start, but if you're finishing at 1 or 2pm without anything to eat all day...

Yeah. The food thing is the only thing that kinda concerns me now. On my long run I had a couple of chocolate chip cookies along the way which were pretty nice. I'll prob go through a large bowl of pasta a couple of hours before the run, but know I'll be pretty hungry in the last few miles. Guess I could wrap the cookies in clingfilm and stick them in the pocket. Haven't used any gels yet really, have taken a Hi 5 a couple of times just after a run alright, will bring one or two just in case and maybe try them again next weekend just to remove any nagging worried about them churning up the stomach.

RayCun

You may be low on energy, but you won't be hungry as such.

Do you normally eat pasta before your long runs? If you haven't used gels before, I would definitely try them this weekend, and use the isogels not the thicker ones.

RayCun

RayCun wrote: »

Do you normally eat pasta before your long runs? If you haven't used gels before, I would definitely try them this weekend, and use the isogels not the thicker ones.

Yeah.

In fact, the thing I am most looking forward to is weeks of no pasta! I am really sick of the stuff.

Mr abbey

RayCun wrote: »

In the last two weeks before the marathon, nothing you can do will make yourself any fitter. Your aerobic capacity, ability to burn fat, basic muscle strength - not going to get any better.
All you can really do in this period is recover - let your muscles rebuild after the exertions of the training programme, let your energy stores get back to normal, and maybe recover some of the sharpness you've lost from all the long miles.

If you're on antibiotics and not fit to run further, there is absolutely nothing to gain from running more than 5 miles, and possibly a lot to lose in delaying your recovery.

ger664 wrote: »

This is most important as you get nearer to race day and your legs start to fell really fresh. Do not be tempted to a PB 5k in training or something stupid that takes it out of your legs or worse still you pull or jar something in the process.

On my first marathon due to a family bereavement I did no run for the taper period. It had no effect on my race and I think it actually helped me.

So less is more in the taper.

Hi guys. I'm having problems with an lingering injury that I have been training through for some time. Did 20m lsr on the 9th and then decided to give proper rest last week. Back out yesterday for 3m tester and still feeling problem...on run and afterward.

Have been seeing PT and he has ok'd me to keep going, but just looking for advice on maintaining fitness at this stage. Think not running and resting it is best strategy at this stage, but as far as cardio fitness goes, should I do equal amount of cross training time wise for the next two weeks or does it matter all that much?

In other words, will the odd swim do? I don't want to even be holding up recovery by using elliptical or bike in the gym if I don't have to. Just want to finish really at this stage, hopefully under 5 and would rather get to start felling better ... but am just a little worried about losing fitness by not doing anything much in the taper.

By the way, thanks for all the good advice along the way, have really enjoyed the thread and learning a hell of a lot from it.

RayCun

Recovering properly from your injury will be of more benefit than cardio work by the sounds of it, so I'd stick to swimming every 2/3 days.

PDCAT

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|4|30 Miles|434 miles|Missed a run Thursday due to real life issues - but a good first taper week none the less|
Nules10|4|39|457.5|17m LSR today. needed to do this. went well. taper for me now|
Househunter|5|35m|671 miles|Missed 10k "tune up race" on Sat but did my 16 miles on Sunday and it went well|
Mr Abbey|||332 miles||
PDCAT|4|29|333.5m|
ShivDCM|4|28|405m|feeling good|
BobMac104|5|39|488.05 |15m LSR felt fine this morning. much easier week to come now.|
red face dave|1|4.5|261.5 miles|Bad week|
Younganne|0||253.5m|Hope to get a few short runs in this week, but if im not up to that then the marathon is off for me:mad:
rom|||427.77 miles||
mazken|4|29|387.8 miles|Good week. Looking forward to another easier week though as legs are not as fresh as I'd like after last week's LSR!|
run44 (Aoife)|4|28.7m|480.4 miles|All going well so far. Legs feeling fresh.|
maggiemissy|4|28|515 miles||


Calves & Ankles still feeling sore when i run on them. Long run on saturday, legs were tired from the previous LSR (20Miles) i assume. Hoping a decrease in mileage this week will help the legs.

RayCun

This coming weekend will be your last (not very) long run before the marathon, and the perfect time to practice your race preparations.

The evening before
Get all your gear ready in advance. Visualise what you are going to put on, in order, and get it ready. (If you're travelling to the marathon, get the bag you'll be packing too)
Bodyglide, nipple protection, blister plasters? underwear/sports bra?, top/singlet, shorts/tights, socks, shoes, hat?, sunglasses?, gloves?. Gel belt/arm wallet/whatever you'll be carrying. Your gels, Garmin/watch, emergency money, emergency toilet paper, ipod.
You'll also need clothes to wear to the start line. You will probably be waiting at least 30 minutes between the bag drop and the race start, and it will be cold. Wear some disposable clothes, something dirt cheap from Penneys, that you can take off in the pen and throw away. (They'll all be collected and donated afterwards) Bring a bin bag in case it's raining.
Finally, your after-race gear. You'll get a plastic bag at the expo with your number on it, and in there will go your change of clothes for afterwards. Pack warm clothes, and something waterproof for an outer layer. Your body temperature will drop as soon as you stop running, and it could be raining. You'll need to put on something warm and dry as soon as possible. You could also pack wet wipes etc for a wash at the sink before the drinking begins :pac:
You might want to write up a list of what you've packed so far - especially if you are going to be travelling to the marathon.

In the morning
You should already know how you are getting to the marathon in the morning, and what time you'll have to leave. If you don't - go and check your timetables. I think it's a Sunday service for public transport- LUAS is fine, DART is useless, buses will not be frequent. Don't drive into town unless you have someone else to drive you home.
When you know what time you have to leave the house, you know when you have to get up. Have the breakfast you plan to eat on the day. (Again, if you are travelling you may have to bring this with you) Go to the toilet, and get rid of any excess weight Put on your running gear. Have another look at your pre-race clothes to see if you've got everything.
Around 10 am, go for your run. Carry all the gels etc you're planning to bring on race day, so you can see if they're comfortable and secure. Don't run at race pace, just normal LSR pace, but try to pick up on any spots of discomfort caused by your clothes and gear, anything that you need to change for next week. Then, when you get home, have another look at your post-race stuff to see if it still has everything you need.

freddzeppelin

RayCun wrote: »

Just forget about it. One run in a training plan is just that - one run. There are about 500 miles in that training plan, 20 here or there isn't going to make much difference. It's more important at this point to taper down and be rested for race day.

Cheers Ray, that put my mind at ease. Just looking through this thread for the first time and you really are giving some great advice. Keep up the good work!

Tec Diver

JJJJNR wrote: »

Also I found my current race runners a bit flat coming back on my 30km run last week.

Would it be ok to go and buy a new pair today and break them in over the next two weeks ? or just stick to my current ones (I'm rotating them with an older pair)

You don't need to "break in" runners. If they are uncomfortable on day one then they always will be. Try and get the same make & model that you already have, assuming they suit your gait.

BobMac104

Thanks ray.

It reminds me i still have to sort a gel carrying system. I use the kinetica ISOgels which are much bigger than the other gels and i plan on carrying four in the marathon. The most ive raced with to date is 2 on the cork to cobh 15m and they were bouncing a bit in the pocket....

Is a gel belt the only option??

Mr Slow

BobMac104 wrote: »

Thanks ray.

It reminds me i still have to sort a gel carrying system. I use the kinetica ISOgels which are much bigger than the other gels and i plan on carrying four in the marathon. The most ive raced with to date is 2 on the cork to cobh 15m and they were bouncing a bit in the pocket....

Is a gel belt the only option??

There's this!

RayCun

Mr Slow wrote: »

There's this!

Yeah, I prefer something on the arm, there's no bounce.

BobMac104

ok cool thanks lads.

I should have got one a while back and used it on a couple of runs so i know how i feel with it after a few hours running. I am going to have to comprimise somewhere i know and i think i would prefer them on my arm than on my waste i think.

RayCun

You can also pin them to your shorts

BobMac104

I think the iso gels would be a bit big for this maybe. PLus knowing my luck id rip my bloody shorts off or something..... that would be a good finishers photo

conseng

BobMac104 wrote: »

Is a gel belt the only option??

I picked up a "spibelt" last week and tried it out this morning. I had 4 gels and a Dioralyte in it and completely forgot it was there. It expands to the size of items placed in it. Very happy with it.

http://store.spibelt.com/Spibelt-p/spibeltparent1.htm

RayCun

Even if you are 'just happy to finish', it's a good idea to have a target finish time. The best way to run a marathon is to run a consistent pace from the first mile to the last - or even slightly faster in the second half of the race. You don't want to go out too fast at the beginning. You can't 'bank' time in the first half of the race - it will cost you more time in the second half. You should run at the same speed from the start. It will feel easy at the start, but it's supposed to.

There are a few different ways to estimate your finish time
the McMillan calculator - enter your time from another race and it will estimate a marathon time
take your half marathon time, double it, and add 10%
multiply your 10k time by 5
multiple your 10 mile time by 3

These are all just estimates. Your time on the day will depend on how well you've trained, how motivated you are, and the conditions of the race.

Since this is your first marathon, you should be a little conservative. You will have plenty of other races where you can chase your best possible time, using what you've learned from this race. For your first time out, try to enjoy yourself - which may mean running a few seconds per mile slower than you think you're capable of.

There will be pace groups running at 3.00, 3.15 (in the first wave), 3.30, 3.45, 4.00 (in the second wave), 4.15, 4.30, and 5.00 (in the third wave). Running in one of these groups can help you keep your pace controlled in the early miles, and maybe drag you along through the tougher miles. Or you can run at your own pace, marking time with your own pace band.

So, what's your target time?

kit3

Hi Ray, McMillan puts me at 4hr 38min from a 2hr 13min half marathon (sept). However, that had me all in at the time. I'm glad in a way that there is no 4.45 pacers because I'd be tempted.... Think I'll go with the 5 hr pacers and in the unlikely event of anything being left at the end will take it from there. Training has gone well but it is my first and don't want to blow up ....... What do you think ?

RayCun

kit3 wrote: »

Hi Ray, McMillan puts me at 4hr 38min from a 2hr 13min half marathon (sept). However, that had me all in at the time. I'm glad in a way that there is no 4.45 pacers because I'd be tempted.... Think I'll go with the 5 hr pacers and in the unlikely event of anything being left at the end will take it from there. Training has gone well but it is my first and don't want to blow up ....... What do you think ?

I think going with the 5 hour pacers is a good idea. McMillan is the most optimistic of the calculators I've seen (the only one to give me a sub 3.30 prediction ), doubling your half time and adding 10% gives you an estimate closer to 4.50 for example.

I think it's hard to overstate the value of finishing the marathon strongly, especially your first.

Mr Slow

Just to reiterate that McMillan is optimistic for the marathon, especially for your first.

2 x your half time plus 10% is more realistic.

Nules10

My original goal time was 4.30 but sine i got injured i have decided to go out with the 5hr pacers or maybe just ahead and see how things pan out for me at the half way point. Goal is to finish but as close to 5hrs as possible.(hopefully under )

ManFromAtlantis

RayCun wrote: »

There will be pace groups running at 3.00, 3.15 (in the first wave), 3.30, 3.45, 4.00 (in the second wave), 4.15, 4.30, and 5.00 (in the third wave).

enjoying the thread ray keep it up.

but i think the sub 3 30 are in the first wave.?

RayCun

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

but i think the sub 3 30 are in the first wave.?

No, they're starting at the very front of wave 2.

dang

RayCun wrote: »

If you haven't used gels before, I would definitely try them this weekend, and use the isogels not the thicker ones.

Hi Ray, do you recommend any isogels? I've used PowerBar and lucozade gels. I found the lucozade one really good but I can't find them anywhere now