Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

sunflowerRo

RayCun wrote: »

Yeah, I prefer something on the arm, there's no bounce.

Hi Ray, I've moved on from worrying about clothes to now worrying about carrying gels this morning :rolleyes:. Just thinking....is it possible to squeeze all your gels into a small container before you start? Maybe mix with a bit of water even?

ultraman1

there are gel stations at 156/16 miles and 18/19,so u can carry wat u need up till then and then restock for the final few miles.....

sunflowerRo

ultraman1 wrote: »

there are gel stations at 156/16 miles and 18/19,so u can carry wat u need up till then and then restock for the final few miles.....

Thanks Ultraman. Only thing is I dont eat those ones and I'd be so scared that when I got there that all the faster people had a big gel party and ate them all

RayCun

sunflowerRo wrote: »

Hi Ray, I've moved on from worrying about clothes to now worrying about carrying gels this morning :rolleyes:. Just thinking....is it possible to squeeze all your gels into a small container before you start? Maybe mix with a bit of water even?

The thicker gels? I'd be worried about getting them out again! Plus it's harder to estimate how much you're taking if they're all in one container.

tHE vAGGABOND

RayCun wrote: »

Go out with the 4 hour pace group, they'll keep you on track and you can run on ahead at the end.

I actually laughed at this - as half the "newbie" advice I see here and elsewhere says "keep a steady pace all the way, you want to run the same pace the whole distance if you can" and the other half of "newbie" advice I see says to go conservative and somewhat take it easy for circa 15 miles and then if you have energy go mad and really push on for last bit...

Make yer minds up ffs :pac:

St. Even

This is my first post on this board, but I have been reading this thread for quite some time! It has helped me a lot in my preparation/motivation for my very first marathon (DCM).

My ultimate goal would be to run sub 3:38. It might be a bit silly reason but a friend of mine ran Berlin Marathon in 3:38 and if possible I would like to beat his time (3:37:59 would be sufficient )!

Since there are only 3:30 and 3:45 pacers I have a bit of a dilemma. Do I start with the 3:30 pacers and try to follow them as long as possible, hoping I do not blow up and finish sub 3:38. Or do I start of a little slower and join the 3:45 pacers and try to leave them behind around mile 20 hoping I have enough energy left to finish sub 3:38?

I have read a couple of times in this thread that keeping a steady pace throughout the entire race is the best option. However, I am afraid that if I do not follow a pacers group in the beginning I will end up running a lot faster than I should during the start of the race (lets blame it on peer pressure ). When running my last 1/2 marathon the goal was to run 1:50, but ended up running 1:38... Something similar happened during my latest 22mile LSR...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

RayCun

We're all just trying to make sure you don't do this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVYk6vDM3qM

RayCun

St. Even wrote: »

Since there are only 3:30 and 3:45 pacers I have a bit of a dilemma. Do I start with the 3:30 pacers and try to follow them as long as possible, hoping I do not blow up and finish sub 3:38. Or do I start of a little slower and join the 3:45 pacers and try to leave them behind around mile 20 hoping I have enough energy left to finish sub 3:38?

Neither of those are good ideas. If you go out with the 3.30 pacers, and you are not in 3.30 shape, then you will crash hard in the second half of the race. You won't just slow down by a minute a mile, you'll be walking and jogging and stopping to stretch and could be taking 15 minutes per mile.
If you go with the 3.45 guys to mile 20, you'll have 6 miles to go more than a minute per mile faster than them - increasing your speed from about 8.30 to 7.20 pace. If you can do that, then you could have been running much faster all along.

You should make yourself a pace band for 3.37.30, and track the splits yourself, 8.17 per mile.

RayCun

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

I actually laughed at this - as half the "newbie" advice I see here and elsewhere says "keep a steady pace all the way, you want to run the same pace the whole distance if you can" and the other half of "newbie" advice I see says to go conservative and somewhat take it easy for circa 15 miles and then if you have energy go mad and really push on for last bit...

More serious answer

Work out what your target time is, and plan to run, from the start, at the pace that will see you hit your target time. Don't plan to run faster at the end, because you might not be able to. Pick the pace that, if you run consistently from start to finish, will get you to your target.

On the day itself, keep that consistent pace up until at least 20 miles. At that point, if you feel good and if you feel you can, start to speed up. But any time you save here is a bonus. It means you get in 2 minutes under your target rather than 30 seconds under. You should not rely on this fast finish, because it might take everything you have to hold on to your regular pace.

Tec Diver

If I use 2 x HM time x 10% I come up with 3:51. I was undecided whether to go with 4:15 or 4:00 groups, but due to missing a couple of LSRs and a recent hamstring issue I'll most likely go with the 4:15.

BobMac104

everyone around me is bloody sick! thats all i need now. Any tips Ray? a mask?

Ive been taking those fizzy vit C yokes for a couple of weeks now to try and prevent catching something.

RayCun

BobMac104 wrote: »

everyone around me is bloody sick! thats all i need now. Any tips Ray? a mask?

Big pointy stick

BobMac104

digusting things the lot of em... feck off will ye!!

kit3

sunflowerRo wrote: »

is it possible to squeeze all your gels into a small container before you start? Maybe mix with a bit of water even?

I've been wondering about this too, with the isogels (the liquid ones). Could put a few in a small water bottle. Wouldn't be an exact science but you could estimate - say put 4/5 in and take a portion when you had planned to take the gels. Wouldn't have to worry about opening them etc. Has anyone tried this or is it mad ..........:rolleyes:

BobMac104

id say it would be messy enough. plus they dont exactly flow. if you wanted to do that you could just bring a bottle of lucozade altogether.

RayCun

kit3 wrote: »

I've been wondering about this too, with the isogels (the liquid ones). Could put a few in a small water bottle.

Aren't the gels easier to carry than a water bottle?

kit3

RayCun wrote: »

Aren't the gels easier to carry than a water bottle?

you are probably right - just have to sort out a method yet - your armband looks good - are they (or something like them) available in Dublin ?

RayCun

kit3 wrote: »

you are probably right - just have to sort out a method yet - your armband looks good - are they (or something like them) available in Dublin ?

you should be able to pick up something like that in your regular running shop - Amphibian King, Runworx, Elverys...

Tiptopdel

I am under the weather with head cold and throat infection at the minute but worried I am not getting the taper runs in?
Are they that important or is it better to put them off and get rid of the infection?

Also, best of luck to everyone on the day.

RayCun

Tiptopdel wrote: »

I am under the weather with head cold and throat infection at the minute but worried I am not getting the taper runs in?
Are they that important or is it better to put them off and get rid of the infection?

Much more important to clear up the infection.

menoscemo

sunflowerRo wrote: »

Hi Ray, I've moved on from worrying about clothes to now worrying about carrying gels this morning :rolleyes:. Just thinking....is it possible to squeeze all your gels into a small container before you start? Maybe mix with a bit of water even?

Last year at DCM I wore a water belt with 4 little bottles. I had 3 bottles filled with a mixture of gel and water (maybe 5-6 gels in total) and the last one with an electrolyte drink.

I never found it an issue but I had practised running a lot of my long runs with the water belt.

Nowadays I generally just run with a money belt carrying the gels and take the gels at waterstation. I know many people who just run with shorts with big pockets (tennis style shorts) and put the gels in there.

Whichever you decide to do, I recommend trying it out in a few runs before DCM.

Clearlier

RayCun wrote: »

Neither of those are good ideas. If you go out with the 3.30 pacers, and you are not in 3.30 shape, then you will crash hard in the second half of the race. You won't just slow down by a minute a mile, you'll be walking and jogging and stopping to stretch and could be taking 15 minutes per mile.
If you go with the 3.45 guys to mile 20, you'll have 6 miles to go more than a minute per mile faster than them - increasing your speed from about 8.30 to 7.20 pace. If you can do that, then you could have been running much faster all along.

You should make yourself a pace band for 3.37.30, and track the splits yourself, 8.17 per mile.

St. Even wrote: »

This is my first post on this board, but I have been reading this thread for quite some time! It has helped me a lot in my preparation/motivation for my very first marathon (DCM).

My ultimate goal would be to run sub 3:38. It might be a bit silly reason but a friend of mine ran Berlin Marathon in 3:38 and if possible I would like to beat his time (3:37:59 would be sufficient )!

Since there are only 3:30 and 3:45 pacers I have a bit of a dilemma. Do I start with the 3:30 pacers and try to follow them as long as possible, hoping I do not blow up and finish sub 3:38. Or do I start of a little slower and join the 3:45 pacers and try to leave them behind around mile 20 hoping I have enough energy left to finish sub 3:38?

I have read a couple of times in this thread that keeping a steady pace throughout the entire race is the best option. However, I am afraid that if I do not follow a pacers group in the beginning I will end up running a lot faster than I should during the start of the race (lets blame it on peer pressure ). When running my last 1/2 marathon the goal was to run 1:50, but ended up running 1:38... Something similar happened during my latest 22mile LSR...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Don't worry about going off to fast because you're not with one of the pacing groups. They attach big helium balloons to themselves that go pretty high and you can see from quite a distance. You can pace yourself off these. Just position yourself midway between the 3:15 and 3:30 pacers at the startline. That said, what shape are you in. It's all very well and good wanting to beat 3:38 but you'll pay for it if you go for it and you're really only in 3:50 shape.

Clearlier

sunflowerRo wrote: »

Hi Ray, I've moved on from worrying about clothes to now worrying about carrying gels this morning :rolleyes:. Just thinking....is it possible to squeeze all your gels into a small container before you start? Maybe mix with a bit of water even?

I have carried 4 isogels in my hands before with another 2 in a pocket. It wasn't ideal especially as one of the ones in my pocket burst :mad: but it's quite manageable if like me you don't like belts or armbands.

cr17

I,m a bit shocked at the amount of gels that email from DCM and others recommend on the day. Have only ever used one on any of my lsr and now i,m meant to scoff about 6 or 7 on the day ??? Was expecting to do maybe 3.
Get the logic but but you cant really mirror that amount in training.

RayCun

cr17 wrote: »

I,m a bit shocked at the amount of gels that email from DCM and others recommend on the day.

That was written by High5 gels

St. Even

Clearlier wrote: »

Don't worry about going off to fast because you're not with one of the pacing groups. They attach big helium balloons to themselves that go pretty high and you can see from quite a distance. You can pace yourself off these. Just position yourself midway between the 3:15 and 3:30 pacers at the startline. That said, what shape are you in. It's all very well and good wanting to beat 3:38 but you'll pay for it if you go for it and you're really only in 3:50 shape.

Based on my 1/2 Marathon time and the (2 * 1/2 Marathon Time) + 10% rule that I keep seeing referenced here, 3:38 should be within my potential. I followed a training schedule on MyAsics.com which was based on a 3:40 finish time.

As this is my first Marathon, I am fully aware that going sub 3:38 might not happen on the 31st. I just wanted to see which strategy would give me the highest possible success rate. I will take RayCun's advice and print myself a pace band and hope for the best! If things do not go as planned I will just try to stay ahead of the 3:45 balloons !

ultraman1

http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/staying-healthy/inside-story/3604.html
shgould be good read for a few here

Mr Slow

Good Article, thanks Ultraman!

cr17

RayCun wrote: »

That was written by High5 gels

I understand that High 5 would like us to eat one every 5 minutes but whats the general consensus among the 4 hour goal runners, no gels ? 2-3 gels ?

ultraman1

max imo wud be 4 and dats with scoffin 2 at the last 4/5 miles