Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

househunter

Just want to add to the thanks. Have soooo enjoyed reading this thread and the solid advice from Ray and others (i seem to be checking it on an hourly basis at the moment).

I am so hyper at the moment. trying to keep calm to conserve energy. Roll on Monday!! Cannot wait!!!

Younganne

Just so everyone is aware

Wheelchair start is 9.45

Sub 3.30(Wave1) start is 9.50

3.30 - 4.15 (wave 2 ) start is 9.55

4.15 + (wave 3) start 10.00 am

PDCAT

Well folks, i'm finishing up now for the weekend. Won't be back online until Wednesday evening.

Would like to wish all the folks here, particularly novice's all the best for Monday. i am really looking forward to this (and shi**ing a brick). Getting to run something i had only ever dreamed of doing until this year.

Would like to take this opportunity in particular to thank Raycun & Mr Slow for all the brilliant advice that they have given over the past few month's on this tread. Sometimes the same advice multiple times. I have no doubt there are some people reading this tread whom wouldn't have undertaken this adventure if it wasn't for the help of these guys.

Also best of luck to my pacers on monday Meno & Oisin - you'll need with me tagging along.

Well guys, here goes.

May the force be with you!!!!!!!

BobMac104

big +1 to ^

BobMac104

I am gonna say my thanks now aswell To Ray and Mr Slow and Meno and Racoonqueen and all other contributers. Ive learned alot in the few months since joining this thread and i never thought i would be where i am today.

ALso thanks to all the other novices for asking questions and giving your feedback on all the tough runs as we went along it helped enormously (especially during taper...)

Hope to see you all at the finish line in one piece and i hope everyone gets the result they deserve!

chinguetti

PDCAT wrote: »

Also best of luck to my pacers on monday Meno & Oisin - you'll need with me tagging along.

You'll have a fun day thats for sure. Good hunting

RayCun

Don't go out too fast

Over the last few months there have been loads of questions about training - should I run on this day or that? what happens if I miss a run? what if I ran this run too slow? what if I start tapering too soon, or too late? should I eat two hours before racing or three? how should I carry my gels? should I take gels at all?

These are all reasonable questions, and it's natural to ask them, but a couple of runs here or there, or a slight difference in your gear on the day, isn't going to have a huge effect. One thing that will have a huge effect is running too fast.

I know you don't think it now, but you are all pretty fit and rested at this point. Your legs might feel heavy on your taper runs, but on Monday morning you will be in great shape. The whole build up to the marathon is pretty exciting, and the morning itself will see you bouncing off the walls right to the moment of the start.

And then you'll start, and you'll wonder why everyone is going so slow. Surely this is too slow? It feels too easy. And look at those guys, they're pushing on, dodging through the crowd - you could keep up with them no problem. you're feeling great, maybe you were too pessimistic in your predictions, maybe you'll go just a little faster, sure you can always slow down if it gets too hard. And it won't feel too hard - you'll run along feeling great, and really pleased with yourself for being ahead of target.

Until you hit Milltown, or Clonskeagh, and KABOOM!

And on Tuesday you'll write your race report and talk about how well you were doing until you hit the wall, and the brilliant time that you were on for.

But you were never really on for that time. You ran too fast and you ran out of energy, no big mystery.

So run smart. If you are in a pace group, stick with them until near the end. If you are wearing a pace band or a Garmin, check it at every mile, and if you are going too fast slow down. For the first 10 miles, you might think you are going too slow. but you will spend the last 10 miles passing hundreds and hundreds of walkers who got carried away at the start and are now going to come in 30 minutes behind you.

And don't worry about getting stuck behind people and slowed down a little at the start. Don't run around them - you are only burning energy and adding to the distance you run. Wait for a gap to open up (or stick your hands through them to open up a gap) and keep relaxed.

If you fall behind schedule for some reason - crowds at the start, a pit stop, an open shoelace - don't worry about it, and don't go too fast trying to make up time or catch up with the pacers. Only speed up by 5-10 seconds a mile.

Have some secondary targets

Even if you do run smart and at a steady pace, you might find at some point that the pace is just too much for you, and you are not going to make your target time. Have some secondary targets in mind, so you don't give up completely. Maybe you can't make sub 4, but you can still go under 4.10. maybe you can't get 4.30, but you can run every step of the way.

If you start walking, don't give up then either. Be strict with yourself and put limits on how much you walk - maybe you'll walk for 2 minutes, but then no more walking until the next mile marker, or until the next aid station. Don't get talking to people walking beside with you, because that means the two of you will just keep walking together. As soon as you can, start running again. Even if you are running slowly, even if you are running no faster than you were walking, if you are running then you'll be able to speed up again soon enough.

When you look back on the marathon, you might be happy with your time or not. But if you went as fast as you possibly could, and gave absolutely everything you had, you will always be proud of the achievement.

cr17

Really excited/nervous about monday now, have run 500 miles over last few months and feel like I wouldnt be able for a 5 miler but yet again this thread has come to the rescue to allay all my fears.
Good luck to everyone and thanks to all the mentors for the great advice and tips over the past few months.

rainbow kirby

Best of luck to everybody - you only have one first marathon, so enjoy it!

(I'll be up at the Chapelizod gate, close to the 8 mile mark, on Monday cheering ye all on)

suseoh

I just want to say thanks to all the mentors also, your advice has been invaluable!
Thanks to everyone asking the questions that I was thinking about and of course thanks for all the answers too!
Ray your advice re. going out too fast is invaluable.I could see myself doing exactly that and have decided if I do nothing else I am keeping my head for the first few miles and will take my time.
Butterflies now.
Nearly there now, travelling up Sunday so I feel tomorrow is really my last day of planning and pondering!

Chartsengrafs

Had a to make a tough call today, my injury which first arose on day one of my taper hasn't gone away (it has probably gotten worse) and treatment hasn't helped in time. So I'm out.
Bordering between depression and anger, feel I was well on course for sub 3.30.
Paid a visit to the Colonel at lunchtime.. turkey gravy eases the pain..for now!

Best of luck to everyone, you're doing great. Thanks also to the two main men, the few bits of advice I sought made perfect sense and you've been a credit to the forum. Learned a lot for the next one. Enjoy!

netmann

Came on this thread late in my prep but grateful to everyone who contributed especially RayCun, Mr Slow and Menoscemo.

Best of luck to all novices here and hope to make it to McGrattans for 1 if the legs carry me that far

Lets hope we all get those shiny medals in the end.

RayCun

sorry to hear it Basster - next time

maggiemissy

also just want to say a huge thank you to all the mentors for their great advise over the last couple of months and wish everyone the best of luck for monday. cheers guys.

shane1981

Good luck to all on Monday. First marathon for myself. Thanks to eveyone who posted advice. Been a great help. Hopefully I ll make it to finish!

BobMac104

Hope your injury clears up soon Bastarr. Thats fierce unlucky. It'll make the next one all the sweeter. Best of luck with the recovery.

Van.Bosch

RayCun wrote: »

Don't go out too fast

Over the last few months there have been loads of questions about training - should I run on this day or that? what happens if I miss a run? what if I ran this run too slow? what if I start tapering too soon, or too late? should I eat two hours before racing or three? how should I carry my gels? should I take gels at all?

These are all reasonable questions, and it's natural to ask them, but a couple of runs here or there, or a slight difference in your gear on the day, isn't going to have a huge effect. One thing that will have a huge effect is running too fast.

I know you don't think it now, but you are all pretty fit and rested at this point. Your legs might feel heavy on your taper runs, but on Monday morning you will be in great shape. The whole build up to the marathon is pretty exciting, and the morning itself will see you bouncing off the walls right to the moment of the start.

And then you'll start, and you'll wonder why everyone is going so slow. Surely this is too slow? It feels too easy. And look at those guys, they're pushing on, dodging through the crowd - you could keep up with them no problem. you're feeling great, maybe you were too pessimistic in your predictions, maybe you'll go just a little faster, sure you can always slow down if it gets too hard. And it won't feel too hard - you'll run along feeling great, and really pleased with yourself for being ahead of target.

Until you hit Milltown, or Clonskeagh, and KABOOM!

And on Tuesday you'll write your race report and talk about how well you were doing until you hit the wall, and the brilliant time that you were on for.

But you were never really on for that time. You ran too fast and you ran out of energy, no big mystery.

So run smart. If you are in a pace group, stick with them until near the end. If you are wearing a pace band or a Garmin, check it at every mile, and if you are going too fast slow down. For the first 10 miles, you might think you are going too slow. but you will spend the last 10 miles passing hundreds and hundreds of walkers who got carried away at the start and are now going to come in 30 minutes behind you.

And don't worry about getting stuck behind people and slowed down a little at the start. Don't run around them - you are only burning energy and adding to the distance you run. Wait for a gap to open up (or stick your hands through them to open up a gap) and keep relaxed.

If you fall behind schedule for some reason - crowds at the start, a pit stop, an open shoelace - don't worry about it, and don't go too fast trying to make up time or catch up with the pacers. Only speed up by 5-10 seconds a mile.

Have some secondary targets

Even if you do run smart and at a steady pace, you might find at some point that the pace is just too much for you, and you are not going to make your target time. Have some secondary targets in mind, so you don't give up completely. Maybe you can't make sub 4, but you can still go under 4.10. maybe you can't get 4.30, but you can run every step of the way.

If you start walking, don't give up then either. Be strict with yourself and put limits on how much you walk - maybe you'll walk for 2 minutes, but then no more walking until the next mile marker, or until the next aid station. Don't get talking to people walking beside with you, because that means the two of you will just keep walking together. As soon as you can, start running again. Even if you are running slowly, even if you are running no faster than you were walking, if you are running then you'll be able to speed up again soon enough.

When you look back on the marathon, you might be happy with your time or not. But if you went as fast as you possibly could, and gave absolutely everything you had, you will always be proud of the achievement.

The above advice is spot on an most of you reading it will know it is the best strategy for your first marathon(all marathons). I did my first marathon 2 years ago and got this exact advice before it started. I thought to myself I'm aiming for 3:50 so I'll go out at a nice 8:25 pace or so and I'll maybe even try to beat it. I thought to myself "that advice is general but I'm different, I feel stronger and I think I must have underestimated myself". I had done my LSR's at 8:30 or so and felt that I could fly it. I ignored the advice and ended up walking parts from 14 miles on, which was soul destroying. I had hoped for 3:50 with 4 as a secondary target. The 4 hour pacers passed me on a uphill section in milltown and I came home in a walk/run manner in 4:14.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is the above advice is 100% non negotiable and that even though you may think you are different maybe you're not. I know it may be hard to believe but there are many like me who have made the same mistake.

Also, not to be overly pessamistic, I would just like to add that even if you dont go out to slow, you may still feel drained or hit the wall late on, you can do everything right but something might not click on the day and you may miss your target. If this happens just keep going and enjoy the day. It's hard to accept at the time but the first marathon should be enjoyed.

Best of luck to everyone. I'm attempting my second marathon this year - same target as two years ago but I'll be adhereing to the above advice with the experience so hopefully it will all go to plan.

galwayhooker

Hi guys! Jst wondering what the train plan for fri,sat and sun is?don't have my laptop and days fri,sat and sun never cone out on my I phone.
Thanks

RayCun

galwayhooker wrote: »

Hi guys! Jst wondering what the train plan for fri,sat and sun is?

Nothing!
You can do a short, very easy run, no more than a couple of miles, on either Saturday or Sunday if you like.

menoscemo

Van.Bosch wrote: »

The above advice is spot on an most of you reading it will know it is the best strategy for your first marathon(all marathons). I did my first marathon 2 years ago and got this exact advice before it started. I thought to myself I'm aiming for 3:50 so I'll go out at a nice 8:25 pace or so and I'll maybe even try to beat it. I thought to myself "that advice is general but I'm different, I feel stronger and I think I must have underestimated myself". I had done my LSR's at 8:30 or so and felt that I could fly it. I ignored the advice and ended up walking parts from 14 miles on, which was soul destroying. I had hoped for 3:50 with 4 as a secondary target. The 4 hour pacers passed me on a uphill section in milltown and I came home in a walk/run manner in 4:14.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is the above advice is 100% non negotiable and that even though you may think you are different maybe you're not. I know it may be hard to believe but there are many like me who have made the same mistake.

Also, not to be overly pessamistic, I would just like to add that even if you dont go out to slow, you may still feel drained or hit the wall late on, you can do everything right but something might not click on the day and you may miss your target. If this happens just keep going and enjoy the day. It's hard to accept at the time but the first marathon should be enjoyed.

Best of luck to everyone. I'm attempting my second marathon this year - same target as two years ago but I'll be adhereing to the above advice with the experience so hopefully it will all go to plan.

Same thing happened me on my first marathon which was 2 years ago at DCM. I planned to do 4 hours and was well capable of it. For some reason I started 2 minutes behind the 4 hour pacers and spent the first 5 miles running at 8:30 pace (instead of 9 min/mile) in order to catch them up. By the time I caught up, I though I was grand, but in the end I probably lost about 20 minutes as a result of 'banking' two minutes at the start.

I finished in a hobble in 4hrs 15 and said 'never again'. (I have done 11 marathons since including 2 ultras :pac:)

Van.Bosch

menoscemo wrote: »

Same thing happened me on my first marathon which was 2 years ago at DCM. I planned to do 4 hours and was well capable of it. For some reason I started 2 minutes behind the 4 hour pacers and spent the first 5 miles running at 8:30 pace (instead of 9 min/mile) in order to catch them up. By the time I caught up, I though I was grand, but in the end I probably lost about 20 minutes as a result of 'banking' two minutes at the start.

I finished in a hobble in 4hrs 15 and said 'never again'. (I have done 11 marathons since including 2 ultras :pac:)

There is hope for me yet! Although running an ultra is not on the cards!

Mr Slow

Great Post Ray!

Best of Luck to everyone running on Monday and for those who didn't make it through training, you now have a great aerobic base to build on for the next one where you'll be faster and stronger.

You're a great bunch of people and the camaraderie ye've displayed to each other will be rewarded with good Karma on race day.

"Running is not, as it so often seems, only about what you did in your last race or about how many miles you ran last week. It is, in a much more important way, about community, about appreciating all the miles run by other runners, too."
--Richard O'Brien

dev123

Mr Slow wrote: »

"Running is not, as it so often seems, only about what you did in your last race or about how many miles you ran last week. It is, in a much more important way, about community, about appreciating all the miles run by other runners, too."
--Richard O'Brien

Is that from the bald guy from The Crystal Maze and the Rocky Horror Picture Show?

Younganne

Mr Slow wrote: »

Great Post Ray!

Best of Luck to everyone running on Monday and for those who didn't make it through training, you now have a great aerobic base to build on for the next one where you'll be faster and stronger.

You're a great bunch of people and the camaraderie ye've displayed to each other will be rewarded with good Karma on race day.

"Running is not, as it so often seems, only about what you did in your last race or about how many miles you ran last week. It is, in a much more important way, about community, about appreciating all the miles run by other runners, too."
--Richard O'Brien

That is such a great quote.... & so true....

Thanks to everyone for there help, advice, support & great humour throughout this thread & for those who were reading my thoughts and asked my questions...

special thanks to Raycun, Mr Slow, menoscemo & rainbow Kirby & all the:D other posters who posted their mistakes to help us avoid making them....

I hope everyones day on Monday goes according to their hope & dreams, and remember if you miss your goal time, don't be negative as this is some other posters dream time....
Most of all, Enjoy, have fun, and don't go out too fast!!!:D

galwayhooker

Busy weekend ahead for me so just in case I don't get on this thead over weekend jst wana say thanks to all the support every one gave on thread.
Came across it in the summer, gave up on training for summer but got back into training group again at the start of sept and have to say this thread helped me.
Def have to say thanks so much to raycun - am amazed at how quick and how well you tried to answer any question I had.
Know this group is based mainly around Dublin but def if few people from the west on it meet up for run in south Galway / Clare area, I wud def be up for meeting up next year
Best of luck to all monday - is feidir linn !!!

Mr Slow

galwayhooker wrote: »

Busy weekend ahead for me so just in case I don't get on this thead over weekend jst wana say thanks to all the support every one gave on thread.
Came across it in the summer, gave up on training for summer but got back into training group again at the start of sept and have to say this thread helped me.
Def have to say thanks so much to raycun - am amazed at how quick and how well you tried to answer any question I had.
Know this group is based mainly around Dublin but def if few people from the west on it meet up for run in south Galway / Clare area, I wud def be up for meeting up next year
Best of luck to all monday - is feidir linn !!!

Bless! :pac:

suseoh

Just saw weather!
Hope 3.45 pacers don't mind me hiding behind them for 26.1 miles.

shivDCM

yeah i just read it too.
you never know though....

Mr Slow

I'm going with the BBC Forecast

Brianderunner

suseoh wrote: »

Just saw weather!
Hope 3.45 pacers don't mind me hiding behind them for 26.1 miles.

Your more than welcome. Just remember me in the pub after