Weight watchers....to join, or go it alone?

donegalgirl28

Taken from Wiki (yeah I know it's not a reliable source but it sums it up)

Food Optimising is purportedly based on the scientific principles of satiety (the satisfying qualities of food) and energy density, and encourages slimmers to fill up on nutritious, low energy dense foods to satisfy their appetite, while limiting consumption of less satisfying, high energy dense foods. Unique to food optimising is the unlimited choice of many 'free foods' which can include lean meat, fish and poultry, pasta, rice and grains, vegetables and fruit, which may be eaten freely. To help ensure a balanced diet, daily portions of 'healthy extras' are permitted, including bread, cereals, cheese and milk. Finally, controlled portions of higher calorie, less filling foods are included, such as crisps, wine, chocolate and sauces. In Food Optimising these are called "syns". Most adults have a daily "syn allowance" of between 5 and 15 "syns".

Regarding exercise:

Slimming World encourages members to introduce physical activity into their daily lives through its 'Body Magic' programme. The emphasis is on introducing activity gently at first, such as getting off the bus a stop early a couple of times a week, or walking up two flights of steps instead of taking the lift occasionally, then on finding forms of activity which can be integrated into everyday life. Members achieve bronze, silver, gold and platinum 'Body Magic' awards.

Amtmann

boomtown84 wrote: »

this is just not true.

Just did some Googling and yup, it seems the 30g figure isn't based on any solid evidence, which is actually great news from my pov.

menoscemo

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

I can eat 4 packets of Snax a day on this plan and still lose weight. SW has been around for 40 plus years and is used by the NHS in England.

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

H I was in WW 3.5 years ago, for 3 weeks basically I could have my packets of crisps every day and lose weight which is not healthy and doesn't work.

So It's healthy to eat 4 packets of crisps a day with SW and not healthy to eat 1 packet a day with WW?

HardyEustace

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

Why is it "juvenile"? For some people they like to be told this so they can stay away from the bad options. SW does take into account the ready meals does have meat, potatoes which are healthy but it's the way it's preserved, cooked that gives it the bad syn value.

I think that it's juvenile because as I outlined in my post, there's more to food than just labelling them "good" or "bad". There's lots of different aspects to various foods. Also it re-enforces comfort eating/rewards eating "oh I've been good so therefore I can have a chocolate bar" thinking....

donegalgirl28

menoscemo wrote: »

So It's healthy to eat 4 packets of crisps a day with SW and not healthy to eat 1 packet a day with WW?

with ww, you are told you can 20 points a day. Basically eat what you want be it ready meals,fresh food or crisps. So lets say snax is 5 points, if you have 4, you cant have anything else unless its 0 points.

Now with sw you have to have 3 meals a day with loads fruit and veg plus your healthy extras then you syn. Sw never promote just eating syns or junk. They focus on getting you to eat fruit and veg. And giving you alternatives e.g instead of a strawberry cheesecake which is high in syns, have a pot of natural yoghurt with 1 crumbled digestive and a few fresh strawberries. This would be 1 syn instead and its healthier. Again keeping within the 1/3 rule.

Amtmann

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

And giving you alternatives e.g instead of a strawberry cheesecake which is high in syns, have a pot of natural yoghurt with 1 crumbled digestive and a few fresh strawberries. This would be 1 syn instead and its healthier. Again keeping within the 1/3 rule.

It's definitely healthier, but I don't understand why they would encourage you to have a digestive biscuit at all. Processed crappola full of hydrogenated fat. Far better to just suggest the yoghurt, strawberries and a small dollop of cream.

ash23

Tremelo wrote: »

It's definitely healthier, but I don't understand why they would encourage you to have a digestive biscuit at all. Processed crappola full of hydrogenated fat. Far better to just suggest the yoghurt, strawberries and a small dollop of cream.

I'd imagine change is best implemented in stages as opposed to drastically.

For someone who is used to a diet of processed food, biscuits and the like, it's more sustainable for them to slowly change their habits rather than completely cut it all out. Surely it's more realistic to change over time than try a totally different and new, drastic change.

Monife

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

with ww, you are told you can 20 points a day. Basically eat what you want be it ready meals,fresh food or crisps. So lets say snax is 5 points, if you have 4, you cant have anything else unless its 0 points.

Now with sw you have to have 3 meals a day with loads fruit and veg plus your healthy extras then you syn. Sw never promote just eating syns or junk. They focus on getting you to eat fruit and veg. And giving you alternatives e.g instead of a strawberry cheesecake which is high in syns, have a pot of natural yoghurt with 1 crumbled digestive and a few fresh strawberries. This would be 1 syn instead and its healthier. Again keeping within the 1/3 rule.

That is totally incorrect.

Weightwatchers have the ProPoints system currently in place. Fruit and most veg are 0 points.

All leaders encourage members to eat healthily, to eat as much fresh food as possible and to eat at least 5 - 8 portions of fruit and veg a day. They say you should avoid processed food as much as possible and make your own meat/pasta sauces and dressing where possible.

For your information, a packet of snax is 2 propoints. Leaders also say you should have treats, but in moderation. And my own leader swears AGAINST weightwatchers products and says you should eat as much fresh, whole foods as possible.

El_Dangeroso

Monife wrote: »

All leaders encourage members to eat healthily, to eat as much fresh food as possible and to eat at least 5 - 8 portions of fruit and veg a day. They say you should avoid processed food as much as possible and make your own meat/pasta sauces and dressing where possible.

Why do they sell heavily processed junk-food with their label on it then? That's like going to rehab sponsored by budweiser.

The leaders can say what they want but I've seen what WW'ers in general eat in real life (half my office is going) and it's not fresh food, it's treble crunch, pink and whites and reduced calorie pitta breads made with white flour. All a-ok to subsist on this as long as you get on the scales at the meeting and show a number less than last week's number.

ash23

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Why do they sell heavily processed junk-food with their label on it then? That's like going to rehab sponsored by budweiser.

The leaders can say what they want but I've seen what WW'ers in general eat in real life (half my office is going) and it's not fresh food, it's treble crunch, pink and whites and reduced calorie pitta breads made with white flour. All a-ok to subsist on this as long as you get on the scales at the meeting and show a number less than last week's number.

If the members aren't listening to the leaders then how is it weight watchers as a franchise that are at fault for members unhealthy choices?
I don't get the attitude of "weight watchers is bad" when people are being told what they should do and are choosing not to do it

Again, the new pro points system is very different to the old points system, focussing heavily on protein, filling foods and the like. At my meeting we were told the ready meals are merely a back up to have in the freezer so instead of reaching for the phone and ordering a pizza, you'll chuck a ready meal in the microwave.

The idea is that you will focus mainly on a protein rich diet with fruit and veg and low carbs. Then you will have your weekly points to use if you are going out for a meal or drinks or just fancy a bit of chocolate. It is reiterated that you must use your daily points but you don't have to use the weekly points and obviously if you don't, you will lose weight faster.

metamorphosis

I think most of the problem with posters here does not lie with what the leaders are saying or not saying but with the fact that even though the leader is saying 'cook fresh whole food', WW as a corporation are selling down right **** food in labels saying this is healthy. And it's because WW is a corporation out for money, not for your health.

Not my gripe, as I personally couldn't give 2 flaps, but that's where I see the problem for many here is lying. I* understand why people go to WW and what they feel they get from it, but imho, (and from my brief experience in 2005, it sets you up for emotional eating - i.e i did great, il have a chinese, or i deserve this treat etc etc As long as that food rewarding is in place, you are set up for higher failure. Yes, you may lose 100lbs or 50lb but the odds are aganist you keeping it off within the next 5 years and putting it back on.

Notice I said the odds, not applicable to everyone.

Monife

metamorphosis wrote: »

but imho, (and from my brief experience in 2005, it sets you up for emotional eating - i.e i did great, il have a chinese, or i deserve this treat etc etc As long as that food rewarding is in place, you are set up for higher failure.

That is another thing. Leaders try to motivate you and tell you not to reward yourself with food, they tell you to find other ways to reward yourself, like a nice bubble bath or a new top etc.

It really is down the individual, whether they want to cop on and use common sense when losing weight or do it half-assed and still have the bad habits therefore not being able to maintain in the future.

I don't think WW are to blame if people put the weight back on.

donegalgirl28

Monife wrote: »

That is totally incorrect.

donegalgirl28 wrote: »

I was in WW 3.5 years ago

:rolleyes:

Lost 0.5lb in my first week and that was me starving myself. Lost 4lbs in my first week at SW and I never ate as much veg and fruit in my life.

With all this debate, I know that SW works for me. It has taught me to try new foods, experiment with spices and eat veg and fruit everyday. Before I never ate vegetables or fish only ate apples and oranges. Now I am in love with broccoli and leeks. I now can't eat food that has been cooked in too much oil, puts me off my food now nor can I eat a dinner without any veg or fruit afterwards.

GT_TDI_150

To all the anti WW comments on here, ....

ALL weight loss/maintenance plans fail if the people go back to their old habits once they reach their desired weight. You can not blame the plan, it's the individual!

I happened to choose WW as my wife started it also. I lost 2 stone in 14wks.
I've swapped huge(often greasy) portions for smaller healtier portions, I walk 10-20miles weekly, run 3-6miles weekly and am getting a bike to start cycling(starting at 20km 3times/weekly).

I wonder what would happen if I went back to my old portion size and gave up on the excersise?!? How could you blame WW for this?:rolleyes:

the clever ones here that keep track of calorie intake and expenditure ... if you gave up on this method, and let yourself go ....you would put on weight same as everybody else

menoscemo

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

To all the anti WW comments on here, ....

ALL weight loss/maintenance plans fail if the people go back to their old habits once they reach their desired weight. You can not blame the plan, it's the individual!

I happened to choose WW as my wife started it also. I lost 2 stone in 14wks.
I've swapped huge(often greasy) portions for smaller healtier portions, I walk 10-20miles weekly, run 3-6miles weekly and am getting a bike to start cycling(starting at 20km 3times/weekly).

I wonder what would happen if I went back to my old portion size and gave up on the excersise?!? How could you blame WW for this?:rolleyes:

the clever ones here that keep track of calorie intake and expenditure ... if you gave up on this method, and let yourself go ....you would put on weight same as everybody else

If you learned about what foods are good and bad for you, you'd never have to worry about dieting or counting WW points ever again.

GT_TDI_150

menoscemo wrote: »

If you learned about what foods are good and bad for you, you'd never have to worry about dieting or counting WW points ever again.

and that is a fair point ... but, no matter how well educated, if an individual makes the choice(consiously or otherwise) to ignore what they have 'learned' and go back to old ways then no system is going to save them!

Davei141

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

and that is a fair point ... but, no matter how well educated, if an individual makes the choice(consiously or otherwise) to ignore what they have 'learned' and go back to old ways then no system is going to save them!

The point being is they usually haven't learned much at all, they have been given dumbed down guidelines (points) so when they inevitably stop counting points ( You won't count for the rest of your life) they don't know what to do. Then the weight creeps back on and they are back to WW being told what to eat to lose weight and this keeps happening. The yoyo effect.

The fact you do quite a bit of exercise puts you in a minority, a good minority though. If you are serious about keeping the weight off you will eventually ditch WW and start digging into proper nutrition yourself and you will understand our stance eventually. I mean that in the best way possible, keep up the exercise!

Amtmann

Well, from my point of view, I'm fed up of reading about WW and the travails of people who are on it. One former very popular poster who kept a WW diary here for ages, and who did make significant progress, is after regaining something like 20lbs while on the programme. Cue plenty of sloganeering such as "I've fallen off the wagon", "must get back on track", "I'll start tracking points again", etc. It's car crash stuff. She hasn't a hope, and it's a tragedy, because she could do it very easily if she just did the right thing and abandoned this well-meaning but faulty programme with its 90% failure rate. And you can actually see, with the utmost clarity, how WW is failing her. Yet she and the other believers are oblivious to it.

She really does "believe" in it you see. WW is like a religion to some. Sure, many are devout for a while, until they lapse. But they never lose that kernel of belief, because, fundamentally, it's an emotional thing for them. I don't blame them. So many WW clients are obese, and must hate their appearance. And conventional nutritional wisdom (fat is bad, low fat is good, yadda yadda yadda) makes it so hard for them to lose weight effectively. They see short-term results from WW and naturally embrace it. It's very understandable really. They don't see nutrition and weight loss as the rational, logical, EASY, non-emotional things that they can be.

I'm done with these WW threads. No doubt they'll be glad to see the back of me. It's so demoralising for me to see so many well-meaning and truly nice people destined to failure, and I really mean that. Demoralising as hell actually.

Davei141

Tremelo wrote: »

Well, from my point of view, I'm fed up of reading about WW and the travails of people who are on it. One former very popular poster who kept a WW diary here for ages, and who did make significant progress, is after regaining something like 20lbs while on the programme. Cue plenty of sloganeering such as "I've fallen off the wagon", "must get back on track", "I'll start tracking points again", etc. It's car crash stuff. She hasn't a hope, and it's a tragedy, because she could do it very easily if she just did the right thing and abandoned this well-meaning but faulty programme with its 90% failure rate. And you can actually see, with the utmost clarity, how WW is failing her. Yet she and the other believers are oblivious to it.

She really does "believe" in it you see. WW is like a religion to some. Sure, many are devout for a while, until they lapse. But they never lose that kernel of belief, because, fundamentally, it's an emotional thing for them. I don't blame them. So many WW clients are obese, and must hate their appearance. And conventional nutritional wisdom (fat is bad, low fat is good, yadda yadda yadda) makes it so hard for them to lose weight effectively. They see short-term results from WW and naturally embrace it. It's very understandable really. They don't see nutrition and weight loss as the rational, logical, EASY, non-emotional things that they can be.

I'm done with these WW threads. No doubt they'll be glad to see the back of me. It's so demoralising for me to see so many well-meaning and truly nice people destined to failure, and I really mean that. Demoralising as hell actually.

+1
Put it better than i ever could.

Frogdog

Tremelo wrote: »

Well, from my point of view, I'm fed up of reading about WW and the travails of people who are on it. One former very popular poster who kept a WW diary here for ages, and who did make significant progress, is after regaining something like 20lbs while on the programme. Cue plenty of sloganeering such as "I've fallen off the wagon", "must get back on track", "I'll start tracking points again", etc. It's car crash stuff. She hasn't a hope, and it's a tragedy, because she could do it very easily if she just did the right thing and abandoned this well-meaning but faulty programme with its 90% failure rate. And you can actually see, with the utmost clarity, how WW is failing her. Yet she and the other believers are oblivious to it.

She really does "believe" in it you see. WW is like a religion to some. Sure, many are devout for a while, until they lapse. But they never lose that kernel of belief, because, fundamentally, it's an emotional thing for them. I don't blame them. So many WW clients are obese, and must hate their appearance. And conventional nutritional wisdom (fat is bad, low fat is good, yadda yadda yadda) makes it so hard for them to lose weight effectively. They see short-term results from WW and naturally embrace it. It's very understandable really. They don't see nutrition and weight loss as the rational, logical, EASY, non-emotional things that they can be.

I'm done with these WW threads. No doubt they'll be glad to see the back of me. It's so demoralising for me to see so many well-meaning and truly nice people destined to failure, and I really mean that. Demoralising as hell actually.

+1 from me also. A great post.

I don't mean any ill-will to any of the WWers on here, and neither do any regulars on here I'm sure, but trying to teach people, who are effectively in a cult, that WW is not a healthy, sustainable way of eating, learning about nutrition or losing bodyfat can be very hard, particularly when they've been brainwashed not to listen.

El_Dangeroso

So eloquent Tremelo, you have such an elegant way of expressing yourself.

I'd like to second the point to the WW people that we're not out to get you, we're honestly trying to help. You can lose weight more easily, sustainably AND cheaper than weight watchers.

To the WW'ers that do it without the junk I applaud you. But I just see so few of them in real life, and that's the program's fault if you ask me. WW should explicitly state no processed food and stop selling crapinabox food.

It's about making a permanent change in how you live your life and getting away from relying on hyper-palatable processed food. Take it from me that's the secret of real long term weight loss.

Dotcomdolly

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

To the WW'ers that do it without the junk I applaud you. But I just see so few of them in real life, and that's the program's fault if you ask me. WW should explicitly state no processed food and stop selling crapinabox food.

This is what I've done, I would never dream of eating any of their branded products. I joined June 09, got to goal in October, and have gone on to lose more and then maintain since then, total loss of 30lbs.

But it's more than just the diet/plan/programme, it's the motivation & accountability of a weekly meeting & discussion that plays a part too - anyone fancy setting up an "Eat clean, get lean" slimming club?

Birdie086

I already posted in this thread to say that I ditched what would be my second cycle of ww in favour of clean eating.
So far its seems to be working, and so much easier, I have ditched 'white carbs' and processed crap compeletly and feel all the better for it already. I am looking forward to a long slow road to my new life. I am not craving 'treats' ' I am no longer hungry, and I am learning how to cook from scratch.
I got totally disillusioned by ww this time, my leader kept repeating the fact that we should get to gold because once you do EVERY time you come back you dont have to pay the rejoining fee!!!! Ah hello like, I am 29 and really dont fancy keeping the ww shareholders in good dividends for the rest of my life. Maybe I finally had my eureka moment, but I am glad to keep my tenner in my pocket each week.
I had a meeting with a trainer at my local gym this week - she really seems to know what she is talking about re women and nutrition and weights etc, she happens to be a neighbour and spent an hour and half with me and I feel confident now that I can do it(as opposed to ww motto of you cant do it on your own).


Sorry for the rambling post but I would like to thank this section of coards for pointing me in the right direction.

Dinkie

Birdie086 wrote: »

I already posted in this thread to say that I ditched what would be my second cycle of ww in favour of clean eating.
So far its seems to be working, and so much easier, I have ditched 'white carbs' and processed crap compeletly and feel all the better for it already. I am looking forward to a long slow road to my new life. I am not craving 'treats' ' I am no longer hungry, and I am learning how to cook from scratch.
I got totally disillusioned by ww this time, my leader kept repeating the fact that we should get to gold because once you do EVERY time you come back you dont have to pay the rejoining fee!!!! Ah hello like, I am 29 and really dont fancy keeping the ww shareholders in good dividends for the rest of my life. Maybe I finally had my eureka moment, but I am glad to keep my tenner in my pocket each week.
I had a meeting with a trainer at my local gym this week - she really seems to know what she is talking about re women and nutrition and weights etc, she happens to be a neighbour and spent an hour and half with me and I feel confident now that I can do it(as opposed to ww motto of you cant do it on your own).


Sorry for the rambling post but I would like to thank this section of coards for pointing me in the right direction.

Well done. I also tried WW but only lasted one session before realising that it wasn't for me. It might have been just the leader, but the talk really put me off WW. fI have also tried Atkinsm, the flatter stomach diet + a zillion other diets and none of them worked.

However since Christmas I have lost 1.5 stone and after a 4 week break and about to start back on my 'healthy diet'. It involves bringing my lunch to work, no processed carbs, lots of veg, no softdrink/juices/beer. I'm allowed the odd treat if I make it my self (brownies, rocky road, etc) and a couple glasses wine or G&T.

I also try and do some excercise 4 times a week even if its only a 20 walk to the shop.

I'm never hungry, have loads of energy and skin looks great.

Every week i weigh my self in front of my BF and we plot it on a chart.

My point like the others is that WW does work for some and having to weigh in every week is a huge plus. However it can be just as effective to do it alone.

Amtmann

Why have four packets of Snax when you can just pig out on "Mars Bar Cake"? A surefire way to cultivate future sugar cravings - but well within the points, so no worries.

Rovi

Tremelo wrote: »

Why have four packets of Snax when you can just pig out on "Mars Bar Cake"? A surefire way to cultivate future sugar cravings - but well within the points, so no worries.

I saw that post earlier, and debated whether to link it here or not
Jaw-dropping stuff, to be sure

Tmeos

Tremelo wrote: »

Why have four packets of Snax when you can just pig out on "Mars Bar Cake"? A surefire way to cultivate future sugar cravings - but well within the points, so no worries.

To be honest I think you're being really facetious there. Obviously people aren't going to be eating that kind of crap every day. If you never want to have a dessert or cake or whatever on a special occasion that's your choice but the honest truth of it is that most people don't want to live a life of total deprivation only ever eating lean protien and veg. If you care that much - good for you but you need to accept that the vast majority of people don't and you really shouldn't sneer at people that don't share your fanaticism.

If someone is eating better the majority of the time and excersising then I think that should be applauded regardless of what programme they adhere to.

Amtmann

Tmeos wrote: »

To be honest I think you're being really facetious there. Obviously people aren't going to be eating that kind of crap every day. If you never want to have a dessert or cake or whatever on a special occasion that's your choice but the honest truth of it is that most people don't want to live a life of total deprivation only ever eating lean protien and veg. If you care that much good for your but you need to accept that the vast majority of people don't and you really shouldn't sneer at people that don't share your fanaticism.

If someone is eating better the majority of the time and excersising then I think that should be applauded regardless of what programme they adhere to.

They're obese and trying to lose weight by eating Mars Bar Cake, justifying it by fitting it into their pro points. It is completely facetious, you're dead right there. It's a major reason why WW fails 90% of its clients long-term. Lots of sugar in Mars bars y'see. Creates a sugar high that causes you to crash back down and crave the same again, so you'll never get past your sweet cravings. It's a multiplier effect. Want a treat? Try dark chocolate, strawberries and cream. No sugar rush, tasty, and high in satiety. But cream is so fattening, so you couldn't do that!

This isn't an isolated example either. It's just the most recent one to jump out at me. Just trawl through that megathread, and you'll find lots of similar examples.

Tmeos

Well I think in that case, your issue is with people who don't eat a nutritionally balanced diet when on weight watchers rather than the weight watchers system itself. Interestingly I am following weight watchers and I had strawberries and (full fat) cream last weekend. I also eat avacado, nuts and plenty of high fat foods within my points because I like them.

My point to you is you can't write off a whole programme just because some people make bad choices while following it. And for most people the idea that you can have the occasional high sugar (gasp) treat it a motivating factor that helps them stick to it. I just think you're being very condescending and need to realise that it can help people. My mother-in -law for example lost 10 stone with weight watchers back in the early ninties and has kept it off since.

Monife

Tremelo wrote: »

Why have four packets of Snax when you can just pig out on "Mars Bar Cake"? A surefire way to cultivate future sugar cravings - but well within the points, so no worries.

Your point?

Are you telling me you have never had a bar of chocolate, a slice of cake or a packet of crisps?

No one can be a perfect eater all the time. I don't see you linking to the WW thread when there are discussions about not snacking, or eating healthy foods and using your points wisely on healthy, nutritious food and not on junk/snacks.