Dog in heat - breeding her

andreac

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

and others were getting to that point but the shelter debate came into play. nothing wrong with sound advice but its not the advice she asked for. she asked a question and was told dont breed. do research and keep dogs out of our pounds. she was even told she wont sell all her pups?? sound for the vote of confidence. i dont know anything about breeding so unfortunatly i'm not a great help. but if i knew what to do i'd tell her. but i'd like to know what to do so as usual it looks like i'l have to look elsewhere to find out as i dont think i or OP will find out here...

Hold on, i gave good advice if she wants to go about breeding and i certainly didnt say not to breed her.
You didnt quote me properly at all, here is exactly what i said:
Are you wanting to keep a pup yourself? If not then there is absolutely no need to breed her. Unless she was proven to be an excellent dog in the ring or out hunting as what the breed is bred for, then please do not breed your dog. There are more than enough people breeding dogs around and unless you are looking to keep her line going and keep puppies yourself then you do not need to breed.

I have absolutely no problem with people breeding as long as its done correctly with the right research and the dogs are health tested, which is what the OP hasnt done yet. She stated the bitch is in heat at the moment so no, the research and testing hasnt been done so she shouldnt be breeding until all of this is carried out first.
You dont just decide when the bitch is in heat if you are going to breed her. This is planned months in advance. A suitable dog is chosen to match her, both dogs are health tested and proven worthy to be bred from, then and only then should you consider breeding.

Bullseye1

If you want to breed your dog and you want to be a responsible Irish Stetter Breeder then do the necessary tests. Contact the Irish Setters breeders club and get as much information as possible. They will put you in contact with a suitable breeding male.

Your dog may not be suitable so there is not point in breeding her if she doesn't meet the minimum requirements. Also do some research on whether there is demand for the breed. No point in havin a litter of 5-6 puppies and no homes for them.

Good luck with your decision.

caroline1111

Andreac please don't try and paint me as a fool, I havn't just decided on a whim to breed her, when I bought her nearly two years ago I had it in mind and I knew she'd be coming in heat around now but it just crept up on me, I've been preoccupied with college exams and stuff.
As for breeding an entire litter of pups (maybe even 12 or something) purely to keep one for myself I think this would be a bit ridiculous.
As for other people questioning my motives amd mentioning money and back yard breeding, please don't insult me....
Her mother was a family pet, family reared, as my litter would be, I really don't see whats wrong with that...
I know alot of you here are very passionate about dogs and I salute you for that, I'm the same, but I think you have your own agenda regarding bad dog breeding in Ireland, please don't blame this on me.. I played no part in it.
I have acknowledged your advice and am grateful for it.

ISDW

caroline1111 wrote: »

Andreac please don't try and paint me as a fool, I havn't just decided on a whim to breed her, when I bought her nearly two years ago I had it in mind and I knew she'd be coming in heat around now but it just crept up on me, I've been preoccupied with college exams and stuff.
As for breeding an entire litter of pups (maybe even 12 or something) purely to keep one for myself I think this would be a bit ridiculous.
As for other people questioning my motives amd mentioning money and back yard breeding, please don't insult me....
Her mother was a family pet, family reared, as my litter would be, I really don't see whats wrong with that...
I know alot of you here are very passionate about dogs and I salute you for that, I'm the same, but I think you have your own agenda regarding bad dog breeding in Ireland, please don't blame this on me.. I played no part in it.
I have acknowledged your advice and am grateful for it.

As far as I can see nobody has said you are a fool, or painted you as a byb, from where I'm sitting, transit260 managed to take this whole thread off on a tangent, and most of the comments are aimed at them, not you.

No, there is nothing wrong with what you want to do, as long as you have done the relevant health tests. A friend of mine has a red setter that had entropic lids on both eyes and had to have two operations and was in a lot of pain. This obviously is what good breeders want to avoid, you, I'm sure wouldn't want any pups that you have reared to be in pain, and wouldn't want any new owner to have to pay out a lot of money to get it rectified.

Could you please let me know though what my own agenda is on bad breeding? All I'm interested in is having healthy, happy dogs spending their whole lives with their family, being loved and being part of that family. If thats an agenda, then yes, I do have one:D

andreac

caroline1111 wrote: »

Andreac please don't try and paint me as a fool, I havn't just decided on a whim to breed her, when I bought her nearly two years ago I had it in mind and I knew she'd be coming in heat around now but it just crept up on me, I've been preoccupied with college exams and stuff.
As for breeding an entire litter of pups (maybe even 12 or something) purely to keep one for myself I think this would be a bit ridiculous.
As for other people questioning my motives amd mentioning money and back yard breeding, please don't insult me....
Her mother was a family pet, family reared, as my litter would be, I really don't see whats wrong with that...
I know alot of you here are very passionate about dogs and I salute you for that, I'm the same, but I think you have your own agenda regarding bad dog breeding in Ireland, please don't blame this on me.. I played no part in it.
I have acknowledged your advice and am grateful for it.

If, and i say if you decide to breed her, only for reasons other than what i have stated, then yes, you will be contributing to the bad breeding practices in Ireland, but hopefully you will take the advice on board and contact the breed club and get advice of the experts and they can point you in the right direction and fill you in on breed information and practices for red and white setters.
I have given you advice on whats the best way to go about it and why a pedigree dog should only be bred from.
If you choose not to follow this then that is your choice, but it is not responsible breeding then, end of.

transit260

I leave battered and bruised,I acknowlege you all have the best interests of the dogs at heart,whatever happens I hope its for the best,best of luck to all,byeeee:o:D

lrushe

caroline1111 wrote: »

Andreac please don't try and paint me as a fool, I havn't just decided on a whim to breed her, when I bought her nearly two years ago I had it in mind and I knew she'd be coming in heat around now but it just crept up on me, I've been preoccupied with college exams and stuff.
As for breeding an entire litter of pups (maybe even 12 or something) purely to keep one for myself I think this would be a bit ridiculous.
As for other people questioning my motives amd mentioning money and back yard breeding, please don't insult me....
Her mother was a family pet, family reared, as my litter would be, I really don't see whats wrong with that...
I know alot of you here are very passionate about dogs and I salute you for that, I'm the same, but I think you have your own agenda regarding bad dog breeding in Ireland, please don't blame this on me.. I played no part in it.
I have acknowledged your advice and am grateful for it.

Caroline I don't think anyone is making you out to be a fool, people are just pointing out what is needed before breeding and in fairness no one here knows you or your depth of knowledge other than what you've written in your posts. Your OP asks about studs and registrations etc. which most people with the desire to breed would have done research in months in advance of their bitch coming into heat. However you bitch is still very young so you still have plenty of time to do this.
People have this preception that a BYB is a some kind of monster and while some are, some are just niave or misinformed, they think, I have a nice dog, I'll find another nice dog and we'll have some nice puppies and all will be rosy in the garden. Sometimes people may get on fine and nothing will happen and other times you end up with with someone knocking on your door a year down the line with a deaf dog, crippled dog etc. (problems Setters suffer with). Taking this kind of gamble is not fair on the new owner or the dog with the health problems who in reality should never have been born.
Caroline I don't doubt you have the best intentions with regard your dog and this is why you will understand why people are so passionate about, not stopping people breeding but seeing people breeding correctly and to stop the downhill slide alot of pedigree dogs are on.

caroline1111

ISDW, i never said i wouldn't do the relevant health tests. As for the agenda comment, I ment this in a good way, you want to end bad breeding (just don't take it out on me)
Andreac you know nothing about me or my dogs so please don't insist on me contributing to bad breeding practices. I have said I will take all information onboard before breeding her.

andreac

caroline1111 wrote: »

ISDW, i never said i wouldn't do the relevant health tests. As for the agenda comment, I ment this in a good way, you want to end bad breeding (just don't take it out on me)
Andreac you know nothing about me or my dogs so please don't insist on me contributing to bad breeding practices. I have said I will take all information onboard before breeding her.

Please read my posts correctly. I said "IF" you "dont" carry out the relevent tests and practices i recommended, then yes, its is contributing to bad breeding practices.

Cherry Blossom

OP, you haven't given reasons why you want to breed your dog, do you mind if I ask why you do? You say you find it ridiculous that you should breed her just because you want one of her pups yourself, frankly I agree. I was told by 2 vets that I should breed a litter from my terrier, one of whom has had extensive experience showing the breed herself. My dog is unregistered and from working lines and I have her purely as a pet so I had her neutered. To be perfectly honest if I wanted a rare breed like a red and white setter I would go to ends of the earth to make sure I got one that came from parents that were fully tested for genetic illness relevant to the breed, they are a working breed so I'd also expect both parents to have competed and been successful in field trials. This would be for a puppy I intended to keep as a family pet, if I wanted to show or have any intention of breeding from this pup in the future I'd have requirements that were much stricter.

Rare breed = Extremely small gene pool => Much bigger risk of genetic problems and bigger consequences on the breed as a whole.

It really is as simple as that, I really don't understand how there is a debate in this case at all, it couldn't really be any more clear cut. All this talk of genetic problems in other breeds . . . this is exactly how they got like that in the first place.

ETA - I'll go even further than that, if your dog has all the relevant breed tests done, the same with the sire, there is proven to be no history of health defects in the lines and if you feel like doing some field trials with her, I'll give a five star home to one of your pups

ISDW

caroline1111 wrote: »

ISDW, i never said i wouldn't do the relevant health tests. As for the agenda comment, I ment this in a good way, you want to end bad breeding (just don't take it out on me)
Andreac you know nothing about me or my dogs so please don't insist on me contributing to bad breeding practices. I have said I will take all information onboard before breeding her.

caroline1111 wrote: »

In an ideal world going through all these procedures, etc would be the best thing but I doubt that in reality many people do them, though I will endeavour to.

This is what I was basing what I was saying on, you didn't say you would do the tests, you said you would endeavour to, which I took as meaning you would try to, possibly me adding 2 and 2 together and coming up with 17.

Anyhoo, shock horror now to those posters who think some of us always agree with each other and back each other up and all that other nonsense (although I did notice a few of them 'sticking together' and liking each others posts - but thats them, I guess thats different:p) I don't actually hold that much store by a dog being a champion show dog, especially when its from a working breed. A lot of show dogs looks totally different to the working lines in the same breed. I personally think that any dog from a working breed shouldn't be allowed to be a champion until it has shown it is good in the show ring and in the field.

The friend with the setter I mentioned above also has a red and white, and she works her dogs in harness, like huskies, and they are fantastic at it, they won a competition in the UK last season, beating huskies easily, they flew around the trails. Lovely dogs.

scudzilla

andreac wrote: »

If, and i say if you decide to breed her, only for reasons other than what i have stated, then yes, you will be contributing to the bad breeding practices in Ireland, but hopefully you will take the advice on board and contact the breed club and get advice of the experts and they can point you in the right direction and fill you in on breed information and practices for red and white setters.
I have given you advice on whats the best way to go about it and why a pedigree dog should only be bred from.
If you choose not to follow this then that is your choice, but it is not responsible breeding then, end of, and that is the last thing i have to say on this thread!!!

andreac wrote: »

Please read my posts correctly. I said "IF" you "dont" carry out the relevent tests and practices i recommended, then yes, its is contributing to bad breeding practices.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

andreac

scudzilla wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Is that all you have to contribute to this thread?? Why bother posting if all you can do is post smilies? :rolleyes:

scudzilla

andreac wrote: »

Is that all you have to contribute to this thread?? Why bother posting if all you can do is post smilies? :rolleyes:

I haven't contributed because as normal, whenever ANYBODY asks for advice on breeding here they get jumped on with all sorts of Negativity.

The OP asked for advice on Breeding, nothing else, yet she's been hammered in most posts.

That's why i don't bother me arse posting in threads like this

And the smileys were sarcastic one's, you said that you'd made your last post, yet were back within 3 posts again.

andreac

scudzilla wrote: »

I haven't contributed because as normal, whenever ANYBODY asks for advice on breeding here they get jumped on with all sorts of Negativity.

The OP asked for advice on Breeding, nothing else, yet she's been hammered in most posts.

That's why i don't bother me arse posting in threads like this

And the smileys were sarcastic one's, you said that you'd made your last post, yet were back within 3 posts again.

They didnt get jumped on at all.

I contributed with good advice, not negativity. I outlined exactly whats necessary with regards breeding your dog and what should and shouldnt be done.
I didnt see you giving any advice whether it be good or bad.

I have first hand experience with breeding dogs as i own a stud dog so i know what you should be doing when considering breeding your dog so i gave the advice. I didnt post any negativity.

If you cant be bothered to give advice then why bother posting silly comments like sarcastic smilies etc, its hardly helping the thread.

andreac

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

and as the OP said she was looking into specific breed health tests and she wanted advice on the procedure of getting a stud dog, documentation and everything to go with it. she's willing to do it right. it doesnt matter who she's breeding them for, she doesnt have to post here who she plans on giving them to. she just asked for advice. and 2 pages later she stil knows as much as she did last week.[/QUOTE]

Eh, no she doesnt. Have you read my posts and the advice i have given her?

I gave exactly the advice and procedures that are needed and what should be done when considering breeding your dog.

ppink

I must need a nap cause Caroline1111 I really do not see where you feel you have been jumped on here with "negativity" and getting "hammered"??

not much point in anyone trying to help you unless you tell us what parts of this advice you feel is attacking you?

ISDW

scudzilla wrote: »

I haven't contributed because as normal, whenever ANYBODY asks for advice on breeding here they get jumped on with all sorts of Negativity.

The OP asked for advice on Breeding, nothing else, yet she's been hammered in most posts.

That's why i don't bother me arse posting in threads like this

And the smileys were sarcastic one's, you said that you'd made your last post, yet were back within 3 posts again.

But yet you didn't make any sarcastic comments when transit260 said they wouldn't post anymore and continued to do so.

You and others go on about a 'clique' and how these kind of threads will go, yet there is a group of people who attack certain posters every time, which is why these threads tend to go in the direction you say they do - hmmm, maybe theres something in that.

I cannot see where the OP has been hammered, she asked for advice, was given it, then she was told that she has the right to breed her dog if she wants to - but there was absolutely no advice whatsoever given in that or follow up posts by that poster, or their 'friends' so how are they helping the OP at all?

The only people who have actually given advice on what the OP asked are the people that you and your friends have slated for attacking her. Go figure.:rolleyes:

caroline1111

yikes guys I'm getting out of here, at this stage even studying gluconeogenesis looks inviting.
No seriously though, sorry if I've come across ungrateful. I appreciate all that you've said and will educate myself further and have my dog tested and showed before I breed her, if I decide to at all.
Thanks,
Caroline.

pitbull_fanatic

see what i mean??? ye gang up on people wit yer clannish ****e and cant help the girl. who gives a **** what her reasons for breeding are?? it has nothing got to do with any of ye?! stop trying to get yerselfes involved and nosing into her business. it wasnt her question. jus give advice. give all the advice ye have. the only one giving advice is andreac but its like good cop bad cop...

my friend...my friends dog had...my friend did...i no this person...

jus coz all yer friends seem to breed a dog a day doesnt mean the op does. i'v never heard of so many people in one place against breeding but all yer friends are breeding like rabbits. one friend dog wit ****ed up eyelids another with friends who lost 2 bitches during birth this year alone...come on. look closer to home to stop this over breeding instead of jumping down 1 persons throat because she asked a question on breeding. have a word with yer buddies. and as i said earlier, ye gang up and scare people away. not from breeding but from the forum. its like the game "hit the knacker" and 50 runs at ya...no doubt there will be a reply to this and about 6 people saying thanks. i can predict who is going to reply, and who is going to thank. same ol same ol. and then one of the thankers will reply say the same as the first one and everyone will thank that. its not a game people. and its not hard to answer questions either. have you ever learned not to answer a question with a question?? its not very helpfull at all.

ISDW

pitbull_fanatic wrote: »

see what i mean??? ye gang up on people wit yer clannish ****e and cant help the girl. who gives a **** what her reasons for breeding are?? it has nothing got to do with any of ye?! stop trying to get yerselfes involved and nosing into her business. it wasnt her question. jus give advice. give all the advice ye have. the only one giving advice is andreac but its like good cop bad cop...

my friend...my friends dog had...my friend did...i no this person...

jus coz all yer friends seem to breed a dog a day doesnt mean the op does. i'v never heard of so many people in one place against breeding but all yer friends are breeding like rabbits. one friend dog wit ****ed up eyelids another with friends who lost 2 bitches during birth this year alone...come on. look closer to home to stop this over breeding instead of jumping down 1 persons throat because she asked a question on breeding. have a word with yer buddies. and as i said earlier, ye gang up and scare people away. not from breeding but from the forum. its like the game "hit the knacker" and 50 runs at ya...no doubt there will be a reply to this and about 6 people saying thanks. i can predict who is going to reply, and who is going to thank. same ol same ol. and then one of the thankers will reply say the same as the first one and everyone will thank that. its not a game people. and its not hard to answer questions either. have you ever learned not to answer a question with a question?? its not very helpfull at all.

But again, exactly what advice have you given the OP to answer her questions? Absolutely none, all you have done is come on and attack other posters, and 'gang up' on certain people. You've thanked people on this thread that you agree with, so are you honestly saying that only you and your friends are allowed to do that? Clannish? well if so, you're part of one clan with your mates.

You really need to reread the thread, advice was given, the thread only went off at a tangent when someone started attacking other posters.

Hellrazer

Can we all calm down here please.Ive had more reported posts about this thread than any other thread in a long time.

Ive read through the whole thread and honestly theres two sides to this neither of which is helping out the OP.The user asked for advice on breeding which was what she should have been given not a lecture on not breeding and not on doing what she likes with her own dog.

Hellrazer

My personal view(and not a mod view before any one gets upset) is that if the OP is mature enough and does her research well enough and gets all the relevant tests done on her dog then I feel that thats her perogative to breed if she wishes and why cant users not help her out to promote responsible breeding instead of lecturing her about not breeding as this doesnt help with promoting responsible breeding.

boomerang

Caroline, if you have a look at the website of the UK Red and White Setter club, there is some information there on the diseases that the club members test for in their dogs. They seem to have done a good job on reducing the prevalence of these diseases in their breed. You can be a part of keeping up the good work by testing your dog too, and picking a health-tested sire. With such a small gene pool, that's really important.

If you do breed your dog, the very best of luck to you.


Transit260, If people bought their pets from people who love their breed enough to ensure they are only breeding from stock that are clear from bad hips, wonky kneecaps and the like, then the vets would be losing out on really big bucks, let me tell ya. Sadly, these diseases are a vet's bread and butter, and they're prevalent exactly because people breed and buy untested dogs.

Responsibility lies with the breeder, first and foremost - and the buyer has a responsibility too. The Kennel Clubs are only registries, remember. They can encourage breeders to test for hereditary diseases and to breed away from exaggerations, but they can't compel them to.

I take offence at your suggestion that vets are selfish money-grabbers. You can't make a blanket statement like that about an entire profession.

ISDW

Hellrazer wrote: »

My personal view(and not a mod view before any one gets upset) is that if the OP is mature enough and does her research well enough and gets all the relevant tests done on her dog then I feel that thats her perogative to breed if she wishes and why cant users not help her out to promote responsible breeding instead of lecturing her about not breeding as this doesnt help with promoting responsible breeding.

I'm obviously missing something here, because I can only see one post that says not to breed, everyone else is talking about health checks and responsible breeding. Please point out the ones that are lecturing her about not breeding?

Hellrazer

THEIR is enough dogs in ireland regardless of rare breed or gourgous dog. We could all breed our pets who too us are perfect lovely loyal cute etc etc.... but ireland has lots of lovely cute dogs in pounds/ rescue centres/ foster programme`s. Id love too breed my dog but i wouldnt put more puppies in society too be given up after 2 weeks.. anyway she is neutured...

There are so many dogs in need of homes out there that it is irresponsible to breed unless there is a highly specialised, ethical and personal prerogative to do so. Doing it for the sake of it is not acceptable, while advocating such an approach as yours is also unacceptable.
Why don't you just toddle back over to the hunting forum and leave the genuine animal lovers to give advice here

Thats 2 from the first page ISDW.

Im not against the OP breeding her dog as long as its in a responsible manner and I agree with Andreas first post.Its as pitbull fanatic says the whole "pound/rescue argument" came into this thread as is the usual and dragged it off topic.

Its getting annoying and honestly if I was an user that browsed in to ask a question I`d be put off by it.

mosi

:

There are so many dogs in need of homes out there that it is irresponsible to breed unless there is a highly specialised, ethical and personal prerogative to do so. Doing it for the sake of it is not acceptable, while advocating such an approach as yours is also unacceptable.
Why don't you just toddle back over to the hunting forum and leave the genuine animal lovers to give advice here Thats 2 from the first page ISDW.

Im not against the OP breeding her dog as long as its in a responsible manner and I agree with Andreas first post.Its as pitbull fanatic says the whole "pound/rescue argument" came into this thread as is the usual.

Its getting annoying and honestly if I was an user that browsed in to ask a question I`d be put off by it

.

This statement is not telling the OP not to breed her dog, and I don't see how it could be taken up this way.
I'm simply emphasising that breeding should be approached responsibly. A highly specialised, ethical and personal prerogative to breed means that the decision to do so should ultimately be based upon a desire to improve the breed, based upon the outcome of the relevant tests and other factors, rather than just decide to do it because it seems like a good idea.
Unless breeding is done for the right reasons, from an ethical perspective, then of course the rescue argument becomes very relevant.
In particular, I was responding to remarks by a particular poster that advocated irresponsible breeding. It was this person - not the rescue argument - that disrupted this thread. I don't see where I told the OP not to breed, just to be careful to approach the matter responsibly.

ISDW

Hellrazer wrote: »

Thats 2 from the first page ISDW.

Im not against the OP breeding her dog as long as its in a responsible manner and I agree with Andreas first post.Its as pitbull fanatic says the whole "pound/rescue argument" came into this thread as is the usual and dragged it off topic.

Its getting annoying and honestly if I was an user that browsed in to ask a question I`d be put off by it.

That second one you put up does not say not to breed, it says that it should only be done for a very good reason, which surely, if you are advocating responsible breeding, is the same thing?

But its not the people giving the breeding advice that drag it off topic though, the people that have dragged it off topic have given no advice whatsoever.

Hellrazer

ISDW wrote: »

That second one you put up does not say not to breed, it says that it should only be done for a very good reason, which surely, if you are advocating responsible breeding, is the same thing?

Doing it for the sake of it is not acceptable, while advocating such an approach as yours is also unacceptable.
Why don't you just toddle back over to the hunting forum and leave the genuine animal lovers to give advice here

Sounds to me like theyr etelling the op not to breed.Also the whole get back to the hunting forum is out of line aswell.

But its not the people giving the breeding advice that drag it off topic though, the people that have dragged it off topic have given no advice whatsoever.

Exactly why I asked everyone to calm down.

ISDW

Hellrazer wrote: »

Sounds to me like theyr etelling the op not to breed.Also the whole get back to the hunting forum is out of line aswell.



Exactly why I asked everyone to calm down.

But they're not talking to the op at all, they're talking to transit260, who had said, well, you know what they'd said.:)