mobile speed camera on Trinity St Drogheda?

ingen

anyone see the speed camera on trinity street today? strange place to be parked... never saw it there before.

kbell

It's always there, and sometimes further down at kebab palace.
And most Thursday's outside Mell credit union too.

ingen

revenue generating exercise so! i thought they were to be placed where fatal accidents happened?

Lord TSC

I don't think I've ever been near that road that, because of traffic, I've even come close to the speed limit...

Scotty #

ingen wrote: »

revenue generating exercise so!

No, they are on a fixed yearly contract and get paid a set sum regardless of how many people they catch. They don't actually want to catch anyone, they want people to be aware that they may be there and so stay below the speed limit.

blingrhino

its always there but now he is moving up mell as the traffic jam is brutal usually

PinkFly

ingen wrote: »

revenue generating exercise so! i thought they were to be placed where fatal accidents happened?

sure an elderly man was killed on that road a few years ago....

gipi

Saw it parked up at the top of Mell (just before Loughboy service station across from Aldi) a while back. It's just before the speed limit changes from 50 to 80 (as you head on towards the recycling centre).

Atomic Pineapple

Scotty # wrote: »

No, they are on a fixed yearly contract and get paid a set sum regardless of how many people they catch. They don't actually want to catch anyone, they want people to be aware that they may be there and so stay below the speed limit.

The fines still go to the government who pay for the GoSafe vans and who (through the Gardai) tell them where to be placed. So while GoSafe dont get paid per person caught the government still do and this is why you see the vans in revenue generating areas rather than actual black spots.

RE: The old man that was killed on that road, what were the circumstances? Was he in a car? Was he hit by a car? Was speed the cause of the accident? Or did he step out in traffic? Or pull out into oncoming traffic?

Speed is very rarely the cause of an accident, only a multiplier in the effect it has, the governments obsession with targeting speed can only be described as a revenue generating exercise when they fail to tackle the cause and only try to treat the symptoms.

Scotty #

draffodx wrote: »

Speed is very rarely the cause of an accident, only a multiplier in the effect it has, the governments obsession with targeting speed can only be described as a revenue generating exercise when they fail to tackle the cause and only try to treat the symptoms.

So if everyone in the country stayed under say... 30MPH we'd have the same amount of deaths/injuries? What planet are you from?

Speed kills - FACT! Regardless of what actually caused the accident, the lower your speed, the less chance of death/injury.

The fines in this country are a joke anyway.... what is it? €80 or something? Should be about €500 +€25 for every KM over the limit. Fines should hurt people in the pocket, otherwise they are pointless.

Atomic Pineapple

I never said that, what I meant was that with proper driver education and a change in attitude then we wouldn't need speed cameras, anyone who is getting into a car to drive should have the ability and common sense to survey the road ahead and drive at an appropriate speed without the need to rely on a posted speed limit.

The facts show that speed is the cause in very few accidents, if you cut out the real causes such as driver tiredness, driver unawareness, driver lack of attention, uneducated drivers then you cut out the root so the accident doesn't happen in the first place.

But there's no money to be made from doing that and it would instead cost money.

Having high fines is stupid, if your suggesting you implement them with the current system, the current system punishes the many for the errors of the few, it catches people breaking a posted speed but who in real world terms aren't actually speeding.

If the government really wanted to cut road deaths they would simply have to pile money into education and reeducation but that costs money and wouldn't go down well with older voters.

And then there's the fact that our road death total is incredibly low compared to almost every other country out there anyway, which is amazing considering the terrible road network, the state of the roads and the uneducated driving population we have.

Scotty #

draffodx wrote: »

And then there's the fact that our road death total is incredibly low compared to almost every other country out there anyway

Huh? I don't know where you got that notion. Holland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, Denmark, Iceland, Germany, Slovenia, Finland, France, Austria, and Italy all have lower road death rates than us and that's just euro countries (Source).

draffodx wrote: »

I never said that, what I meant was that with proper driver education and a change in attitude then we wouldn't need speed cameras, anyone who is getting into a car to drive should have the ability and common sense to survey the road ahead and drive at an appropriate speed without the need to rely on a posted speed limit.

People ARE educated. People KNOW speed kills. People KNOW they are over the speed limit. People carry on regardless.

You can educate them til the cows come home. Won't make a blind bit of difference and never has. The last big drop we saw here was with the introduction of penalty points.

draffodx wrote: »

The facts show that speed is the cause in very few accidents

Yes we know that. But the severity of the crash is DIRECTLY related to SPEED.
Lower speed = more time to react and thus less collisions/injury/death.
Higher speed = less time to react and thus more collisions/injury/death.

It's really very simple. The speed you were travelling may have absolutely nothing to do with what caused the accident... but it has everything to do with the outcome of the accident.

draffodx wrote: »

Having high fines is stupid.

Because it might slow you down?

Atomic Pineapple

Scotty # wrote: »

Huh? I don't know where you got that notion. Holland, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, Denmark, Iceland, Germany, Slovenia, Finland, France, Austria, and Italy all have lower road death rates than us and that's just euro countries (Source).

Some of the statistics used in that are nearly 10 years old! Also the correct ratio to use is per number of cars on the roads, I don't see that presented there?

Scotty # wrote: »

People ARE educated. People KNOW speed kills. People KNOW they are over the speed limit. People carry on regardless.

You can educate them til the cows come home. Won't make a blind bit of difference and never has. The last big drop we saw here was with the introduction of penalty points.

Its very naive to think people are educated, do you even drive? Its common to see daily drivers making basic mistakes in how they drive that puts themselves and others in danger.

On top of that a high proportion of the older generation of drivers on our network never even took a driving test or passed an inferior and long out of date test, including me! Re-education and re-testing is needed as soon as possible and I would gladly welcome having to do a driving test every 5 years.

Your focus on speeding when I mention education is disappointing, people need educating on how to improve their driving, not how to stick to what is a static speed limit that will be posted on a dynamically changing road and conditions.

We saw a drop when penalty points for awhile but road deaths rose again after awhile when people realised nothing had really changed and went back to their old habits, it was a short term solution for a long term problem, the same as having a network of speed cameras works, its not a long term solution.

Scotty # wrote: »

Yes we know that. But the severity of the crash is DIRECTLY related to SPEED.
Lower speed = more time to react and thus less collisions/injury/death.
Higher speed = less time to react and thus more collisions/injury/death.

It's really very simple. The speed you were travelling may have absolutely nothing to do with what caused the accident... but it has everything to do with the outcome of the accident.

While it is true that the severity can be multiplied by higher speed, if money was put into it and common sense was used then the crashes could be avoided in the first place. If you cut out the cause then you have no crashes at all instead of less severe crashes. To cut out the cause the government needs to spend money on a multiple of things but it wont because speed cameras are easier, they generate money and they keep they general public thinking that something is being done.

Scotty # wrote: »

Because it might slow you down?

I don't speed so why would I be required to slow down?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ingen wrote: »

revenue generating exercise so! i thought they were to be placed where fatal accidents happened?

Catch yourself on. That old "revenue generating" argument is a bit thin. If you are not speeding then what's the big deal? If you are, then slow down or pay a fine. Your choice. What harm is a speed camera if you are legal??

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

draffodx wrote: »

Speed is very rarely the cause of an accident,

Now I've heard it all! :D

Catch a grip!

Atomic Pineapple

Tristen Gigantic Staffer wrote: »

Now I've heard it all! :D

Catch a grip!

Do some research.

ingen

Tristen Gigantic Staffer wrote: »

Catch yourself on. That old "revenue generating" argument is a bit thin. If you are not speeding then what's the big deal? If you are, then slow down or pay a fine. Your choice. What harm is a speed camera if you are legal??

catch yourself on! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

the van would be better placed further out the road where people can actually have the road space to get up to go over the speed limit!!:rolleyes:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

draffodx wrote: »

Do some research.

Oh, I most certain have done so and over many years. Yes, if you want to be pedantic, most accidents do not involve speed. Fender benders take place in shopping centre car parks, outside schools etc and little damage is done. HOWEVER, speed is a major contributor in accidents where injury or death are concerned.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ingen wrote: »

the van would be better placed further out the road where people can actually have the road space to get up to go over the speed limit!!:rolleyes:

Ok let me get this straight. So you think the speed camera would be better elsewhere on the road where it will actually catch people exceeding the speed limit. And where it is will not catch anybody because you can't get over the limit there. And yet you said it was there as a revenue generating move. Not much revenue if nobody speeds there; so why the cyncial accusation about revenue generation?

Scotty #

draffodx wrote: »

Its very naive to think people are educated

I'm beginning to think you haven't a clue what you are talking about. People are told the speed limit. They are told not to exceed the speed limit. They are now educated!!!

draffodx wrote: »

Do some research.

Please please please point me to some of this research that shows that speed is irrelevant or that a higher speed is no more dangerous. I'd really love to see it!!

Atomic Pineapple

Tristen Gigantic Staffer wrote: »

Oh, I most certain have done so and over many years. Yes, if you want to be pedantic, most accidents do not involve speed. Fender benders take place in shopping centre car parks, outside schools etc and little damage is done. HOWEVER, speed is a major contributor in accidents where injury or death are concerned.

I never denied speed is a contributing factor, of course it is, it is however the major cause in only a few accidents, take for example the case that is in the news this week in Kerry that happened last year. The Gardai reckon the car was traveling at between 99km/h and 110km/h on a 100km/h road.

So if you take into account how speedometers over read the car was most likely doing a legal speed and yet 4 people were killed, why? Because of stupidity and an uneducated inexperienced driver, not speed.

Scotty # wrote: »

I'm beginning to think you haven't a clue what you are talking about. People are told the speed limit. They are told not to exceed the speed limit. They are now educated!!!

Ok, for the second time I'm not on about educating people about the speed limits.

Scotty # wrote: »

Please please please point me to some of this research that shows that speed is irrelevant or that a higher speed is no more dangerous. I'd really love to see it!!

Again, you are failing to see my point, I never said that higher speeds are no more dangerous or that speed is irrelevant.

Scotty #

draffodx wrote: »

Ok, for the second time I'm not on about educating people about the speed limits.

You said if drivers were better educated we wouldn't need speed cameras. My point is no matter how much you educate people you will still have speeders. It's just a fact of life. One way to deter these people is with fines for speeding. To do that, you need cameras and in my opinion, much bigger fines. I speed. I think everyone does. 110KPH in a 100 zone... 85KPH in a 80... If we are honest I think there are VERY few drivers who stick strictly to the speed limit. If I get caught sure it's only €80! Now if it were maybe €750 (as it is in France) then I can assure you... I would be under the limit. ALWAYS!

draffodx wrote: »

Again, you are failing to see my point, I never said that higher speeds are no more dangerous or that speed is irrelevant.

I'm not really sure what your point is at this stage. Speed does not cause most accidents. Yea, we know that. But it's the difference in stopping on time and not. That is my point.

Just out of curiosity Draffodx... that report into the Kerry crash has recommended speed limiters be fitted to young drivers cars. What are your thoughts on this? Would you be in favour? How about restricting ALL cars with a GPS Speed Restrictor so that no one can ever go over the posted speed limit... would you be in favour?

kormak

Just to point out folks...
I've seen the shnakes twice now parked on the N51 between Townley Hall and Roughgrange.
It's usually parked at the farm gate just before where the forest starts.

Scotty #

They are there to save peoples lives!! why would you describe them as 'shnakes'. What an idiot attitude.

All their locations are posted on the Garda website. There is nothing sneaky about what they are doing.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

kormak wrote: »

Just to point out folks...
I've seen the shnakes twice now parked on the N51 between Townley Hall and Roughgrange.
It's usually parked at the farm gate just before where the forest starts.

1. Why refer to them as "shnakes" (sic) when they are doing their jobs and are open about it?

2. If you don't speed it's no issue where they are.

3. Are you advocating that people speed where there are no cameras?

4. What exactly is the point in your post?

positron

IMHO (no one asked, I know, I will butt in anyway ), the speed cameras are getting more and more popular as they are INDEED a revenue generating mechanism.

If SPEED kills, autobhan in Germany should be full of deadbodies now. It's not speed that kills, it's human errors. Speed makes things worse. So why this unhealthy focus on speed and speed cameras alone?

If government was actually serious about making roads safer, why have they not proposed compulsory Initial Basic Training or have considered a new law where everyone will need to redo the driving test every 10 years?

kormak

Scotty # wrote: »

They are there to save peoples lives!! why would you describe them as 'shnakes'. What an idiot attitude.

All their locations are posted on the Garda website. There is nothing sneaky about what they are doing.

Ha! Scotty #! I wasn't expecting such high morals this early in the morning.
I think they're a big bunch of SSSSHNAKES !
this is my opinion, along with LOTS of other decent Irish people trying to keep their heads above the water in these financially crippling times.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

To be precise 52% of German Motorways have no posted speed limit although they have suggested max speeds and any motorist involved in an accident travelling in excess of the suggested max will be penalised by their insurers. You'll also find speed limit signs on seemingly open parts of the Autobahns in the countryside. Persons exceeding the limits by more than 30 km/h can expect to loose their licenses for a period of up to three months, plus a stiff fine.


Also, German Traffic Laws forbid motorists to travel at speeds that would prolong the vehicle's minimum halting distance beyond the driver's line of sight - what fun we'd have with twisting rural roads here!

On German rural roads there is speed limit of 100 km/h, which is routinely reduced to 70 km/h or 80 km/h where the road approaches a junction with a significant side-road.

There is a general speed limit within towns and city limits of 50 km/h but residential areas usually have a lower speed limit of 30 km/h. On arterial roads, the speed limit may be raised to 60 or 70 km/h.

Speed Limits are rigourously enforced and speed traps are very common place. Fines are heavy (& linked to how much in excess of the limit you were driving at) and on-the-spot. You'll also see speed limit signs on other seemingly open parts of the Autobahns in the countryside. Persons exceeding the limits by more than 30 kilometers an hour can count on losing licenses for a period of up to three months, plus a stiff fine.

German traffic police are much more active than the Gardaí here.

kormak

Tristen Gigantic Staffer wrote: »

To be precise 52% of German Motorways have no posted speed limit although they have suggested max speeds and any motorist involved in an accident travelling in excess of the suggested max will be penalised by their insurers. You'll also find speed limit signs on seemingly open parts of the Autobahns in the countryside. Persons exceeding the limits by more than 30 km/h can expect to loose their licenses for a period of up to three months, plus a stiff fine.


Also, German Traffic Laws forbid motorists to travel at speeds that would prolong the vehicle's minimum halting distance beyond the driver's line of sight - what fun we'd have with twisting rural roads here!

On German rural roads there is speed limit of 100 km/h, which is routinely reduced to 70 km/h or 80 km/h where the road approaches a junction with a significant side-road.

There is a general speed limit within towns and city limits of 50 km/h but residential areas usually have a lower speed limit of 30 km/h. On arterial roads, the speed limit may be raised to 60 or 70 km/h.

Speed Limits are rigourously enforced and speed traps are very common place. Fines are heavy (& linked to how much in excess of the limit you were driving at) and on-the-spot. You'll also see speed limit signs on other seemingly open parts of the Autobahns in the countryside. So, keep an eye open for them. Usually, speeders will not be stopped at the time of the offense but will get a speeding ticket through the mail. This may be as long as two or three months after the incident. The German police use special cameras to catch speeders. Persons exceeding the limits by more than 30 kilometers an hour can count on losing licenses for a period of up to three months, plus a stiff fine.

German traffic police are much more active than the Gardaí here.

Wow! you really know your German bye-laws inside out.... :rolleyes:

positron

Srameen, was that a counter argument against my post? If so, I am not sure you actually got my point. Like I said before, while speed complicates things pretty badly, the core of the issue is driver errors. And if we as a society want to address the issue, speed cameras ALONE is not the solution.

You have go into detail about the speed restrictions in Germany which is not unlike what we have here, except for not having speed limits on certain parts of their motorway network - which is exactly my point. When conditions suit, speed is fine, and hence, speed is not always bad. However, you could still kill someone at 30kmph if you are not looking where you are going, or kill a cyclist because you failed to check your mirrors. And governemnt, and some of the society, seems totally focused on speed as the ONLY culprit.

In Germany, they also have the following (I googled).

Making a new driving license

The procedure for making a new driving license is more or less the same as converting the license with the following exceptions :

12 theory lessons are mandatory
12 practical lessons are mandatory
5 for motorway (Autobahn)
4 for country road (Landstrasse)
3 for night driving

Where as here in Ireland anyone can be ride a DB9 or a Hummer after passing a theory test. So, how about Government spending some of the time, money, effort and lip service to improving the quality of the driving?

Atomic Pineapple

Scotty # wrote: »

You said if drivers were better educated we wouldn't need speed cameras. My point is no matter how much you educate people you will still have speeders. It's just a fact of life. One way to deter these people is with fines for speeding. To do that, you need cameras and in my opinion, much bigger fines. I speed. I think everyone does. 110KPH in a 100 zone... 85KPH in a 80... If we are honest I think there are VERY few drivers who stick strictly to the speed limit. If I get caught sure it's only €80! Now if it were maybe €750 (as it is in France) then I can assure you... I would be under the limit. ALWAYS!

Of course we will always have serial speeders, there will always be the idiots out there that will speed excessively, but even having speed camera's will not stop people like that.

High fines will just punish people who travel a bit over the limit (which be honest isn't really speeding) rather than catch actual dangerous drivers.

We cant stick strictly to the speed limit but most of them don't make sense, you have a rod designated as 80km/h that has section which is high quality, straight and extremely safe where speeds up to 120km/h would be safe and then another section where the road quality deteriorates with bends where even 80km/h is too high.

It's crazy to enforce strict speed detection on people when this is the case.

Scotty # wrote: »

I'm not really sure what your point is at this stage. Speed does not cause most accidents. Yea, we know that. But it's the difference in stopping on time and not. That is my point.

Speed is not the only variable in stopping distance, brake setup, brake condition, tyre type, tyre condition, tyre pressure, driver awareness, driver tiredness etc... all play a part in effecting stopping distance, yet I know many people still drive cars that have no rear brake disc setup, people who drive on cheap tyres, people who drive on bad condition tyres, people who never get their brakes checked etc...

There is many things to take into account and concentrating on speed alone is an easy way out.

Scotty # wrote: »

Just out of curiosity Draffodx... that report into the Kerry crash has recommended speed limiters be fitted to young drivers cars. What are your thoughts on this? Would you be in favour? How about restricting ALL cars with a GPS Speed Restrictor so that no one can ever go over the posted speed limit... would you be in favour?

Speed limiters would be a crazy idea, people make mistakes and young people make more than most, so its more likely that a young person will try to overtake and get it wrong, so what happens when they do and they have on coming traffic that at 100km/h is impossible to clear?