3 in 1 Silicon Oil effect on a Guarder hop up

Darth Phoenix

Hey Guys,

I got caught out using this oil on my masada thinking i was doing it good. At the moment the guys in QAS is doing a 6 million dollar man job on it.:cool:..(we can rebuild it, we have the technology)

I decided to show a pic of what the oil can do to a guarder clear 50 hardness.

I had a damaged guarder hop up and i submerged it in the 3 in 1 silicon oil for about 20 mins and the atached pics are of the hop up after i soaked it. I have a crappy hop up along side the guarder as a reference for size.

The black hop up was an exact size and length of the guarder before i soaked it.

Hopefully this will help prevent this happening to someone else aeg....

DP ~

Stercus Accidit

Yikes, fair play for testing it though. I have heard so many contradicting stories about wd40, silicon oil, 3in1 etc. I don't know what does what to what!

Does it affect other hop ups the same way?

F.U.B.A.R

Cheers mate for the helpfull info:)

F.U.B.A.R

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Yikes, fair play for testing it though. I have heard so many contradicting stories about wd40, silicon oil, 3in1 etc. I don't know what does what to what!

Does it affect other hop ups the same way?

Silicon oil is a pure lubricant and should be used but the likes of wd40 products should be avoided unless your aeg is a rusty mess lol the wd40 contains propertys to eat away at rusted metal to get the squeek out of the kitchen door

Stercus Accidit

As I understand it silicon oil can damage certain types of rubber, while wd40 has no effect, and vise versa. TBH I don't understand it but is something I have an interest in at this stage, as I use a variety of chemicals in my aegs etc. for different effects, engorging rubber as seen here in this thread can be helpful for o-ring seals for example.

swiftblade

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

As I understand it silicon oil can damage certain types of rubber, while wd40 has no effect, and vise versa. TBH I don't understand it but is something I have an interest in at this stage, as I use a variety of chemicals in my aegs etc. for different effects, engorging rubber as seen here in this thread can be helpful for o-ring seals for example.

The 3 in 1 stuff is fine for most rubbers. eg o-rings and the likes. That's why it would be used in plumbing and why it would say "ok for use on rubber"

It depeds on the make-up. Softer rubbers eg guarder, it tends to eat away at. Also fyi most of the "100% silicone spray" stuff, isn't 100%.

I have been using the 3 in 1 stuff for well over two years, but im still on an old bottle. If the chemicals in it have changed than i won't be buying a new one.
I took apart my AK-74 yesterday with a guarder in it. All was fine.

It's a very vauge area that i hope to do a bit more research into.

Firekitten

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

As I understand it silicon oil can damage certain types of rubber, while wd40 has no effect, and vise versa. TBH I don't understand it but is something I have an interest in at this stage, as I use a variety of chemicals in my aegs etc. for different effects, engorging rubber as seen here in this thread can be helpful for o-ring seals for example.

Silicone oil, is a specific, plastic and rubber lubricant.

You should really go for 100% silicone oil, none of the '3 in one' types, because they contain funky things that make your rubber go melty.


WD40... no no on airsoft guns. Ever. it munches plastic like a tramp on chips.

F.U.B.A.R

i think its safe to say that a bottle of asg silicone is a safe bet

Damo 2k9

F.U.B.A.R wrote: »

i think its safe to say that a bottle of asg silicone is a safe bet

And so is the Lidl one

swiftblade

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

And so is the Lidl one

I wouldn't be so sure. Like the 3 in 1 stuff, it's designed for use on normal rubber. eg car seals. Might not be the same for hop-ups.
Just be careful.

Firekitten

you can get it in hardware shops for a fraction of the price of 'airsof specific' silicone oil.

I got mine for £2.99 in a local shop, just look for sprays, or oils that are 100% silicone designed for rubber use. They are designed not to eat rubber. Airsoft ones like the asg are a safe bet, but pricey compared to having a look at a label in the shop...

NakedDex

The 3-in-1 brand do a pure silicon oil which is perfectly fine for use on anything airsoft related. This stuff about silicon of different brands "eating" seals is tosh. Silicon oil on a silicon rubber will simply engorge the silicon rubber (which is what has happened in the above image) in much the same way that o-rings in clutch fluid will engorge (as I've often stated as a solution to dried out seals).

Their yellow labelled "3-in-1 Pure Silicon" aersol cans are distinct from their flagship white "3-in-1 Oil" dropper cans, which are definitely not for airsoft use.


Incidentally, if your seals are ever being "eaten" by your lubricant, it's time to re-evaluate your use of sodium hydroxide as a cheap substitute.

CpcRc

DP, I think the image that QAS originally showed, shows the effects better I think.

Affected hopup rubber on the bottom. Just adding it here.

NakedDex

By way of a clarification toward what I said above, and to help dispel some of the more incredible rumours I've heard about how O-rings are more sensitive than an emo at a Twilight premiere, I conducted a brief test.

Two standard O-ring sizes in two of the lubricants that I had close to hand, that would be reasonably commonly available*: hydraulic oil (Mobil Jet 254) and an aerosol lubricant called LPS2 (very similar to WD40, but higher grade).
O-rings were measured for thickness, internal diameter and external diameter using micrometers and verniers, and their elasticity was measured using a three-point expander (anecdotal test, no actual measurement could be taken). They were then immersed in a pot of one of the two lubricants, with a third pair of the O-rings being left in air as a control.



After 48 hours of immersion, the O-rings were removed and remeasured.



Unfortunately, I left the actual results sheet in work (you can make out some of the figures in the image), but here's the synopsis of the results:
LPS2 and Mobil Jet 254 couldn't be more dissimilar. One is a highly viscous synthetic oil, while the other is a very low viscosity mineral oil (bordering on being a penetrant). Despite this, both had exactly the same effect on the O-rings: none.
Having been cleaned off with paper and remeasured, there was found to be differences of only a few thousandths of an inch either side of the measurements taken before immersion in the oil, and these can likely be attributed to simple measurement errors with the micrometer (compression of rubber under the micrometer anvil).
To put this into context, 1/1000th of an inch is equal to about 25 microns. A human hair averages around 75 microns. In other words, there was effectively no difference.
The seals were left overnight, again, in air and remeasured, with the same results being obtained. Both size and elasticity remained the same throughout.

The conclusion of all of this work is this: stop talking crap about your seals being "eaten". It's not happening.



If people want this to be any more in-depth, I have no problem retesting a fresh pack of seals using whatever oils you think will/won't cause damage, including the "killer" WD40 and 3-in-1 Oil. Frankly, however, short of me throwing a couple of seals into an organic acid bath and videoing their disintegration, you're going to get roughly the same results every time.
Using WD40 et al on an airsoft device is not recommended, not because the seals are going to wilt like a drinking straw in a blast furnace, but because it's detrimental to the system. WD40, especially, is a penetrant and displacer. It's not specifically a lubricant. Using it on the likes of a gearbox will displace existing lubricant from around seals and moving parts, whereupon, once the WD40 has dried off during use, it leaves the O-rings making a dry seal on a moving piston (for example).
This is where and when damage occurs through friction wear of the dry rubber O-ring. Flat-spots , thinning and even outright breakages occur, all compromising the seal integrity.



Next week on Mythbusters, I marry Kari Byron and you never hear from me again.








*I could have used many more aggressive chemicals, but the chances of anyone reading this even having access to stuff like Skydrol, nevermind being silly enough to use them on airsoft parts, are low enough to warrant not bothering with a test.

Darth Phoenix

Thats very thorough test Dex, thanks for going out of your way to do it.

Stercus Accidit

Great stuff, thanks.

Firekitten

Nice work dex

(And when i said others didnt work, I meant more, content not brand)

Puding

i can donate a 5 -6 guarder buckings if you want to test these at some point

NakedDex

I have no problem doing it, but it'd be a dreadful waste of some good hop rubbers. If people want them tested though, I'll do it.