sucklers or dairying

danpaddyandy

hey ive 80 acres of good quality free draining land.
what number, do ye reckon, of spring calving suckler cows id be able to hold, as well as their calves throughout the summer.
Id be selling all weanlings in october say.
silage would be included in the 80 acres.. if i set up a paddock system would i hold 80 cows and calves throughout summer as well as replacements.

Ive applied for new entrants to dairying scheme but if i dont get it looking to go down route of sucklers.. Was looking at farmers journal and a fella in Co.Down was making a nice profit with angus crosses. It might be a better option instead of massive set up costs for dairying.

any suggestions greatly appreciated

danpaddyandy

hey ive 80 acres of good quality free draining land.
what number, do ye reckon, of spring calving suckler cows id be able to hold, as well as their calves throughout the summer.
Id be selling all weanlings in october say.
silage would be included in the 80 acres.. if i set up a paddock system would i hold 80 cows and calves throughout summer as well as replacements.

Ive applied for new entrants to dairying scheme but if i dont get it looking to go down route of sucklers.. Was looking at farmers journal and a fella in Co.Down was making a nice profit with angus crosses. It might be a better option instead of massive set up costs for dairying.

any suggestions greatly appreciated

MrKerry

Dairy farming is 7 days a week, 52 weeks of the year.

Suckler farming maynot be as profitable but the time factor is alot less as well. If you decide to go this route, forget the angus cattle. They are too small, can't drink milk as young calves leading to huge problems, scours ,cows loaded with milk etc.

lim, ch or sims go for the bigger breed.

Good luck with your future venture

F.D

depends if you have an off farm job or not, if you have suckling will prob be the easiest, but the way stock is i cant see it been to much cheaper by the time you pay for good animals, if your not working dairying will give you a steady income but it is more of an investment, if it was me i would go dairy if all that land is in one block

5live

danpaddyandy wrote: »

hey ive 80 acres of good quality free draining land.
what number, do ye reckon, of spring calving suckler cows id be able to hold, as well as their calves throughout the summer.
Id be selling all weanlings in october say.
silage would be included in the 80 acres.. if i set up a paddock system would i hold 80 cows and calves throughout summer as well as replacements.

Ive applied for new entrants to dairying scheme but if i dont get it looking to go down route of sucklers.. Was looking at farmers journal and a fella in Co.Down was making a nice profit with angus crosses. It might be a better option instead of massive set up costs for dairying.

any suggestions greatly appreciated

Housing cost for both systems will be about the same. Any available on farm at the minute? I'd say 1k per animal from a green field site?

80 cows on 80 acres starting off as a novice might be pushing it. you might get away with it if it was all reseeded ground but have you any experience at managing stock under any system?

Have you budgeted on roads fencing water? Stock purchases? Silage slab or round bales? housing available or not? Parlour?

A bit more info would help as to the situation on the ground at the minute and what system in place if any right now:pac:

PMU

profit from dairying;E800-1000/acre.sucklers;E150-200.dairying would be a full time job sucklers part time

danpaddyandy

was thinking of angus cos of the premium for slaughter and ease of calving,fatten quickly and cows dont eat tonnes of silage like charlaois but limousin would be an alternate.

well we re in store to beef at the mo so buying stock would be no problem. would have to put up another slatted shed and lie back but i woulndnt be starting at 80 cows straight away.would have to put in a few passages all right
would be building up numbers over 4 -5 years so hopefully there would be no borrowing.

im in the construction industry so would be working off farm whenever i could get it work + things might pick up:rolleyes:

i just think that instead of borrowing up to 100k to set up a dairy enterprise, paying it off over 15 years,would i be able to set up an efficient suckler farm that would give a net profit of say 300-350 a head,to give a decent annual income even if wasnt working off farm.

like if you could maybe outwinter on kale or maybe buy a baler and wrapper and do your own silage, keep cow costs down to 300-350 per year you'd surely clear 300 a head per cow and earn a decent enough living out of it.

800-1000 net profit per acre in dairying is that correct?

bogman_bass

generally speaking there is more work in dairying but harder work in suckling

John_F

is it just me or is all this optimistic talk in dairying overoptimistic!? all this talk about harvest 2020, post 2015, low cost, green field sites, new zealand, its really attracting people to dairying that only for all these buzz words, in my view would never have got into dairy farming. when you decide to go into dairying its a vocation, not a job, your life is the cows, and if you want to be successful you must have a love for dairy cows and get your priorities right. I really really don't know how some one could compare dairying to sucklers, there is no comparasion unless you talk 40 dairy cows compared to 200 sucklers! i advise anyone to read todays independant, there's a few very good articles in it about focusing on the cow, like really all this teagasc crap about grass is a load of bull if you have cows not reaching their potential, not going in calf and would make you sick to look at with hairy coats, green rainbows coming out the back end and having half the milk they could be doing.

best of luck in whatever you do, but do not for gods sake start off milking 80 cows, and if you do go into dairying remember to look after your cow first and not aim to have lovely covers of grass just for the neighbours to look for. Dont get me wrong, grass is a very important ingredient in the diet, but lush low covers of grass are not what a ruminant animal is made for, the rumen needs fibre.

rant over :pac:

keep going

do you like work?if you are the kind of guy that likes to finish work at a set time and have regular days/weekends then forget about dairying.im not saying its all drudgery and work(you kind of nearly have two months easy during winter)but during the startup phase and the spring you got to mind your biz.nothing else will match the return from farming.here is the controversial bit, most sucklers are nothing more than lawnmowers protecting the single farm payments so look at your single farm payment thats the most money you might make.why is it nobody talks about the start up costs in suckling and how long it would take to pay back.i suppose really you have to make a call on your off farm work and how much you like it or what would leave the best return

rancher

John_F wrote: »

is it just me or is all this optimistic talk in dairying overoptimistic!?
:pac:

I'd say it is!!! only thing holding milk price up is demand exceeding supply because of quotas, if supply goes up 50%, as it could, price has to reduce. New entrants will have to have their loans cleared by 2015.
I believe there,s a very poor outlook for irish farming if sfp and quotas go, costs in ireland are too high.

reilig

rancher wrote: »

I believe there,s a very poor outlook for irish farming if sfp and quotas go, costs in ireland are too high.

A small part of me worries about whan the SFP and Quotas go, but to be honest, the biggest part of me looks forward to the day that we have a level market. The removal of these quotas and payments will do a couple of things:

1. Separate the "farmers" from the "skimmers" ie. Those making nothing from farming and living off the grants. The day of the small farmer who just plods along will be over - if you're keeping 10 suckler cows then these 10 cows will need to be making a profit for you because if they're making a loss, the loss will be from your own pocket rather than from an EU subsidy.

2. If farmers are no longer receiving a subsidy to produce food then they will only sell their farm produce at a profit or break even mark. They will want to make a profit because they will have no SFP to fall back on. If they are not able to sell their farm produce without making a loss, then they won't produce as much the next year.

Finally, I have to ask why you say that costs in Ireland are too high?????
By these costs, do you mean the cost of fertilizer and fuel?? Surely they are the same price in most countries as they are made from oil??
Is the cost of labour too high? Surely this can be justified by us being so close to our markets (In comparison to New Zealand or South America) and the savings in transport costs will more than outweigh the higher cost of labour.

I think that as a farming country we are very well placed to survive when the subsidies are removed. We have the perfect climate - we can feed our animals on the cheapest, best and most natural animal feed in the world - GRASS, for almost 9 months of the year. Very few other countries in the world can do this.

We have the facilities, the infrastructure and the knowledge to be the best producers in the world. Sadly though, if you think about it carefully, we are regulated and restricted by the EU in order to keep prices artifically low. If this regulation and restriction is removed then people all across europe will have to pay the actual cost of producing the food. Can you imagine the protests across europe if the prices of food were increased?? Weren't there riots in India and Russia a few years ago when both countries tried to increase the price of food?

I honestly can't see it happen. The SFP and quotas may be removed in name, but we will continue to receive some type of payment in order to subsidise the low prices that we receive for our food and we won't be allowed to over produce because this will make a mess of the whole structure.

Sit tight. Don't panick. We're riding the good ship EU. Our agricultural production is as important to them as their payments are to us. Producing food at an affordable price for all its citizens will continue to remain one of the most important focus points for them into the future.

Muckit

I'd be of the opinion that Irish Farming will always be 'subsidised'.

But as stated by previous posters, the big question is who is subsidising who? :rolleyes: Livestock will never be as 'pampered' and finished as they are right now if subsidies were to go, nor would food be produced as cheaply.

keep going

rancher wrote: »

I'd say it is!!! only thing holding milk price up is demand exceeding supply because of quotas, if supply goes up 50%, as it could, price has to reduce. New entrants will have to have their loans cleared by 2015.
I believe there,s a very poor outlook for irish farming if sfp and quotas go, costs in ireland are too high.

we only represent one % of europes milk and europe is only 20%(or less) of world production.quotas going may only affect milk price in the years around that time and after that europe is just another factor to calculate in.price is still going to go up and down regardless and if we dont produce it someone else will . all quotas are doing is putting another cost in our system

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

A small part of me worries about whan the SFP and Quotas go, but to be honest, the biggest part of me looks forward to the day that we have a level market. The removal of these quotas and payments will do a couple of things:

.

I think that it is almost certain that for the next 20 years or more Irish farmers will be receiving some form of SFP. The amounts for irish farmers are probably going to reduce significantly, particularly the beef sector, but it will still be there.

Regarding the quota i wouldn't even be surprised if its abolition was delayed significantly also. World food prices are on the rise, and while there will be peaks and troughs, it is a long term trend that isn't going to stop anytime soon. Baring this in mind and from the EU's point of view it will want to keep control over EU farmers and the easiest and best way to do this is through quotas and subsidies. Especially if the Mercosur deal doesn't go through

whelan1

after spending the last hour running after 2 sucklers and a calf , give me dairying anyday:(