New traffic lights planned on Skehard Road. Still time to object!

MyLeftOne

Hopefully there will never be a serious accident, as the speeds are fairly low (due to the neverending traffic jams). But I'd never cycle that route now. I cycled a bit when the roundabout was there. It's just too risky for me now with cars using the bike lane as either a car lane, or a carpark, and the lights confusing people. You're a bit squishy on a bike for that. Especially when I have a kid on the bike too. I take the silverdale -> churchyard lane -> ardmahon route instead. Longer, and more road bumps, but less likely to end up in a wheelchair.

the beer revolu

Firstly, I thought there was nothing wrong with the old road layout and saw no need to change it - it worked well.

It has been changed and now almost everyone is complaining about the new layout and how confusing and dangerous it is.

Almost every complaint I've read here and descriptions of incidents at this junction have been caused by stupid drivers, of which we have no lack of in this country.
People parking in bus or cycle lanes is caused by arseholes who park illegally, not by bad road layout.
Cars getting rear ended is caused by lack of attention or intention to break lights or driving too fast and/or too close to the car in front, not bad road layout.
People not understanding how traffic lights work is, again, not the fault of the lights. It baffles me how many motorists do not understand how something as basic as traffic lights work.

Maybe there a still a few issues with the layout but I've been through this junction from all three sides and never found anything confusing.

It reminds me of when they introduced the Luas in Dublin and over the first couple of weeks there were several accidents with the suggestion that there was something wrong with the system when the accidents we caused by people breaking lights and driving onto yellow boxes ie. stupid driving at which we Irish excel at!

AugustusMinimus

the beer revolu wrote: »

Firstly, I thought there was nothing wrong with the old road layout and saw no need to change it - it worked well.

It has been changed and now almost everyone is complaining about the new layout and how confusing and dangerous it is.

Almost every complaint I've read here and descriptions of incidents at this junction have been caused by stupid drivers, of which we have no lack of in this country.
People parking in bus or cycle lanes is caused by arseholes who park illegally, not by bad road layout.
Cars getting rear ended is caused by lack of attention or intention to break lights or driving too fast and/or too close to the car in front, not bad road layout.
People not understanding how traffic lights work is, again, not the fault of the lights. It baffles me how many motorists do not understand how something as basic as traffic lights work.

Maybe there a still a few issues with the layout but I've been through this junction from all three sides and never found anything confusing.

It reminds me of when they introduced the Luas in Dublin and over the first couple of weeks there were several accidents with the suggestion that there was something wrong with the system when the accidents we caused by people breaking lights and driving onto yellow boxes ie. stupid driving at which we Irish excel at!

Why replace a roundabout though, considering it clearly has been shown to cause less traffic and IMO, compared to a junction it is inherently safer due to the greatly reduced chance of T-bone accidents.

It is similar to that politician saying we should switch to driving on the right as there might be a slight reduction in accidents about 50 years down the road. Madness.

the beer revolu

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Why replace a roundabout though, considering it clearly has been shown to cause less traffic and IMO, compared to a junction it is inherently safer due to the greatly reduced chance of T-bone accidents.

As I said:

the beer revolu wrote: »

Firstly, I thought there was nothing wrong with the old road layout and saw no need to change it - it worked well.

murphym7

the beer revolu wrote: »

Firstly, I thought there was nothing wrong with the old road layout and saw no need to change it - it worked well.

It has been changed and now almost everyone is complaining about the new layout and how confusing and dangerous it is.

Almost every complaint I've read here and descriptions of incidents at this junction have been caused by stupid drivers, of which we have no lack of in this country.
People parking in bus or cycle lanes is caused by arseholes who park illegally, not by bad road layout.
Cars getting rear ended is caused by lack of attention or intention to break lights or driving too fast and/or too close to the car in front, not bad road layout.
People not understanding how traffic lights work is, again, not the fault of the lights. It baffles me how many motorists do not understand how something as basic as traffic lights work.

Maybe there a still a few issues with the layout but I've been through this junction from all three sides and never found anything confusing.

It reminds me of when they introduced the Luas in Dublin and over the first couple of weeks there were several accidents with the suggestion that there was something wrong with the system when the accidents we caused by people breaking lights and driving onto yellow boxes ie. stupid driving at which we Irish excel at!

What we need to note though is that this change in road layout has introduced risk where there was little risk before. Yes, most of the issues are caused by motorists not following the rules of the road etc.... these issues were not there before the risk was introduced by this new layout.

So is the new layout the cause of these issues, basically yes. Few issues before new layout, more after.

the beer revolu

murphym7 wrote: »

What we need to note though is that this change in road layout has introduced risk where there was little risk before. Yes, most of the issues are caused by motorists not following the rules of the road etc.... these issues were not there before the risk was introduced by this new layout.

So is the new layout the cause of these issues, basically yes. Few issues before new layout, more after.

But I suspect that if after several years of the current layout, a roundabout was reintroduced, it would cause chaos again due to the inability of drivers to cope with change.

Everybody knows somebody who can't/won't drive on motorways, will avoid the Kinsale road or the Wilton roundabout at all costs, can't parallel park, reverse, drive somewhere outside of their usual routes etc etc. Yet these people are legally allowed to drive on the roads, endangering lives.

As I said, I can't for the life of me figure out why they spent tax payers money to upgrade a perfectly functioning junction but pointing out peoples inability to drive as flaws in the new layout simply excuses people's lazy and stupid driving habits and their ignorance of the rules of the road.

pwurple

the beer revolu wrote: »

As I said, I can't for the life of me figure out why they spent tax payers money to upgrade a perfectly functioning junction but pointing out peoples inability to drive as flaws in the new layout simply excuses people's lazy and stupid driving habits and their ignorance of the rules of the road.

I half agree with you. But that cycle lane is just plainly not marked correctly. The only sign for it is at the end of it, and it's not red, has no little bike marked on it etc.

There's only so much a motorist can do when faced with ambiguous markings.

the beer revolu

pwurple wrote: »

I half agree with you. But that cycle lane is just plainly not marked correctly. The only sign for it is at the end of it, and it's not red, has no little bike marked on it etc.

There's only so much a motorist can do when faced with ambiguous markings.

There is a habit of putting in cycle lanes (or what I assume are cycle lanes) and not marking them. There is one on John Redmond Street. The thing here, though, is that there is also double yellow line here and that doesn't stop mass goers parking there every Sunday - no doubt if it was marked properly as a cycle lane, they would still park in it.

Yes, that cycle lane is very badly marked but it doesn't look like legal parking either.

evilivor

the beer revolu wrote: »

There is a habit of putting in cycle lanes (or what I assume are cycle lanes) and not marking them. There is one on John Redmond Street. The thing here, though, is that there is also double yellow line here and that doesn't stop mass goers parking there every Sunday - no doubt if it was marked properly as a cycle lane, they would still park in it

Do you mean the bit down on Mulgrave Road - opposite John Buckley's? That's hilarious - then again, I think people parking for mass are the least considerate parkers ever.

Thankfully the new law change has removed the mandatory use of cycle lanes for cyclists so we are free to use as much of the road as we like now.

murphym7

the beer revolu wrote: »

But I suspect that if after several years of the current layout, a roundabout was reintroduced, it would cause chaos again due to the inability of drivers to cope with change.

Everybody knows somebody who can't/won't drive on motorways, will avoid the Kinsale road or the Wilton roundabout at all costs, can't parallel park, reverse, drive somewhere outside of their usual routes etc etc. Yet these people are legally allowed to drive on the roads, endangering lives.

As I said, I can't for the life of me figure out why they spent tax payers money to upgrade a perfectly functioning junction but pointing out peoples inability to drive as flaws in the new layout simply excuses people's lazy and stupid driving habits and their ignorance of the rules of the road.

I think you will find I am not excusing peoples driving, I am merely pointing out that without this junction change, this particular increase in incidents would not have occured at this location. I am sure these terrible drivers will continue to wreak havoc in other areas, but the point is they would not be doing it here, near my house.

the beer revolu

evilivor wrote: »

Do you mean the bit down on Mulgrave Road - opposite John Buckley's? That's hilarious - then again, I think people parking for mass are the least considerate parkers ever.

Thankfully the new law change has removed the mandatory use of cycle lanes for cyclists so we are free to use as much of the road as we like now.

Nope, I mean John Redmond Street. How old are you? It was renamed John Redmond Street in 1902 for Mulgrave Road!

murphym7 wrote: »

I think you will find I am not excusing peoples driving, I am merely pointing out that without this junction change, this particular increase in incidents would not have occured at this location. I am sure these terrible drivers will continue to wreak havoc in other areas, but the point is they would not be doing it here, near my house.

I think the one thing we can agree on is that it was a stupid idea to change that particular junction. But my point is that even if they had changed that junction for the better there still would be an increase in traffic incidents due to people's lack of adaptability and general inability to drive on the road properly. The fact that this is the case doesn't, in itself, mean that changing the junction was a bad idea, that is merely a coincidence.

goldie fish

bladebrew wrote: »

It may get better in future but people seem to be mystified by the layout, the other day i saw a people carrier driving up the well road into the right hand turn lane, when both green lights came on they indicated and turned left then started to drive down the wrong side of the road in the lane to turn right down the well road:eek:
I also saw a micra using the cycle lane as an extra lane to drive in!
not to mention all the crashes people have seen!

It's terrible that people still don't know how to drive.

I went through the junction, last friday, deliberately at lunchtime (when the silver quay is usually busy). Got held up at flower logde due to preparations for the match later on, but breexed through the junction and was impressed with the new layout at the new junction further on. The residents there must be pleased, no longer having to take their chances exiting onto free flowing traffic at a blind turn.

pwurple

goldie fish wrote: »

The residents there must be pleased, no longer having to take their chances exiting onto free flowing traffic at a blind turn.

Yeah, we are delighted with having two new blind turns onto traffic either end of churchyard lane. And not being able to get in our out of our doors with the muppets speeding past on a lane barely wide enough for one car. It's a dream come true. :rolleyes:

I lost the rag with some guy today actually. I was inching out of the drive, and he was whizzing up the lane... So fast, that he was at the bottom of the hill when i looked left, and on top of me when i looked again. It's the fastest I ever saw someone go on that hill. He leaned on the horn and nearly slammed into my car, on the babyseat side of course, with the baby in there. I saw red, blocked the road with my car, and went over to him. Not advisable I know, but that was way too close. He started ranting abut me 'jumping out'. I don't think I have ever been so angry. I asked him what f-ing speed he was doing, and where was he coming from and going to that he was passing through this road in the first place, and pointed out the baby he nearly obliterated. He went puce, apologised and reversed away when i told him to wait there while i reported him for dangerous driving.

Is there such a thing as making that road residents only? It is just crazy dangerous now. I was nearly in tears after the fright of it.


Edit... To be fair to the councillors, I can't entirely blame them for the morons on that lane. If that other bunch of publicly pensionable folk handed out some more parking fines instead of collecting their breakfast rolls in Ross's while parked on double yellows, or 'breexing' through the junction obliviously, we might have some chance of compliance with what is there now. I doubt the tax payers will ever be getting the million wasted euro back, so someone might as well claw some pittance in what looks to be a mini treasure trove of parking fines.

goldie fish

Would there be any advantage to putting bollards at the juction of ardmahon on churchyard lane? Forcing access only from the silver quay side(where it is too narrow) and all access to Ardmahon from the well road side?

the beer revolu

Pwurple, you were dead right, the way you treated that Dick!

Surely people constantly used Church Yard Lane as a rat run when the roundabout was there too?
I guess the obvious solutions would be some serious speed bumps, a chicane, or blocking off one end of CYL.

I think we're never going to get the roundabout back but I do think the present layout could work if they address CYL, drivers get a bit of cop on and there is some enforcement of parking regulations. A few days of tow aways would very quickly stop people parking in the cycle lane.

the beer revolu

pwurple wrote: »

I lost the rag with some guy today actually. I saw red, blocked the road with my car, and went over to him.

As in most species, the human female is generally far less aggressive then the male. A female with young, however, if approached in a manner she may find threatening towards her or her young, may be very aggressive indeed - and quite dangerous!

beer enigma

goldie fish wrote: »

Would there be any advantage to putting bollards at the juction of ardmahon on churchyard lane? Forcing access only from the silver quay side(where it is too narrow) and all access to Ardmahon from the well road side?

I still think the answer is to make churchyard lane one way from the silver key towards Ardmahon & that would negate any advantage to drivers cutting up through Ardmahon.

Pwurple I'm with you on the making a stand - I was outside my house when a car came steaming up Ardmahon while I was talking to a neighbour - my neighbour actually stopped the guy ( rather him than me) and the driver verballed him saying that he was already late for a meeting because of traffic & was just trying to save some time by cutting through the estate.

the beer revolu

Andip wrote: »

I still think the answer is to make churchyard lane one way from the silver key towards Ardmahon & that would negate any advantage to drivers cutting up through Ardmahon.

That would be a nice simple solution, alright.
I guess it is really only used as a rat run in the opposite direction.

But wasn't this problem there all along and not just since the roundabout was taken away?

pwurple

goldie fish wrote: »

Would there be any advantage to putting bollards at the juction of ardmahon on churchyard lane? Forcing access only from the silver quay side(where it is too narrow) and all access to Ardmahon from the well road side?

Possibly, but I think that would turn the top part of the lane into an even bigger clusterfk of parking than it currently is.

the beer revolu wrote: »

I guess the obvious solutions would be some serious speed bumps, a chicane, or blocking off one end of CYL.

All of which inconvenience the residents as well as the local businesses. It's hard enough to keep a business going these days without people messing with access to the premises as well. I'd be happy with it, but what about everyone else?

the beer revolu wrote: »

As in most species, the human female is generally far less aggressive then the male. A female with young, however, if approached in a manner she may find threatening towards her or her young, may be very aggressive indeed - and quite dangerous!

Haha. That was it alright.

beer enigma

the beer revolu wrote: »

That would be a nice simple solution, alright.
I guess it is really only used as a rat run in the opposite direction.

But wasn't this problem there all along and not just since the roundabout was taken away?

Traffic flow through Ardmahon has increased hugely since the roundabout was taken away as there were rarely any queues at the top of the well road prior to the change and therefore no need to cut through the estate. I live in Ardmahon near to the churchyard lane junction and at rush hour it's extremely busy now.