New traffic lights planned on Skehard Road. Still time to object!

Faith

I'm surprised Laura McGonigle was in favour of it, she seems like she has a decent head on her shoulders normally.

bladebrew

Andip wrote: »

Does your copy of the plan extend slightly further down the Well Road - I'm very concerned that people coming up the Well Road will throw a left at Churchyard Lane to cut out the lights & join the Boreenmanna Road by the Silver Key ?

Churchyard Lane is small enough as it is and would become a rat run....

thats a very good point, the plan shows to just below the pedestrian crossing at the top of the well road, so taking a left at churchyard lane will indeed avoid the traffic lights,
coming from douglas at 8:30 ish is going to take forever, the same coming from mahon point after 5,

i had lived in the area for nearly 5 years and the only time traffic is bad at that roundabout is when there is a gaa match just finished,
its the scale of the plans that are mind boggling

evilivor

parsi wrote: »

Yet again a solution is imposed on a non-existent problem by councillors who don't live in the ward.

It's a national plan - http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=507

Minister for Transport, Tourism & Sport Leo Varadkar has today (Sunday) announced €6.8 million in funding for transport projects for Cork city. The funding has been allocated through the National Transport Authority under the Regional Cities Accessibility Programme.

The €6.8 million will allow a range of projects to go ahead, designed to improve traffic flows and remove pinch points, provide better access for buses and taxis, and provide new or better routes for cyclists and pedestrians. They include schemes to improve access to Kent Station, upgrading works on Patrick Street, as well as a range of new cycle paths and bicycle parking areas around the city.

Minister Varadkar said he is delighted to announce the funding in these difficult times. “Even though Cork is our second largest city, public transport use is quite low and cycling is relatively uncommon by comparison with other cities. Over the next few years, the new Government will fund a multi-annual programme of investment in Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford to encourage more people to use the bus, ride their bikes, or travel on foot.”

The single largest project in terms of cost will be a new roundabout on the Skehard Road with safer pedestrian crossing points, bus and cycle lanes and a new footpath, costing €950,000 million.

Access to Kent Station from the city centre for pedestrians, cyclists and buses will be improved significantly through a €450,000 project to upgrade the route between Patrick’s Bridge and MacCurtain Street, and by providing new bus junctions at MacCurtain Street and Summerhill, and at Penrose Quay and Michael Collins Bridge. A separate project will draw up plans for better taxi and bus access to Kent Station, and will consider a connection to Horgan Quay, with funding of €200,000.

Work will start this year on a new cycle corridor from Ballyvolane to the city centre, through an allocation of €650,000. This will allow cyclists to reach the city centre in as little as 15 minutes. Another €170,000 has been allocated to improve bike parking facilities in a number of suburbs.

Access for pedestrians, buses, cyclists and taxis on Patrick Street will be improved under a €330,000 project, including new street signs. A €300,000 project will improve traffic at Parnell Place, providing better access for buses to the bus station, upgrading pedestrian facilities, and improving street lighting and cycle lanes.

Plans for a new cycle route between the city centre and UCC will be drawn up through funding of €275,000. This will determine the best route for cyclists, provide dedicated cycle lanes and enhance safety at junctions along the way. A grant of €300,000 has been provided to finish the cycle route on the Boreenmanna Road, while €100,000 will develop a new pedestrian crossing and street lighting on Churchfield Avenue. The junction of Sunday’s Well Road and Western Road will be improved through a grant of €150,000, with a special emphasis on pedestrian safety.

pwurple

That roundabout removal is a disgrace. I even went to the meeting with 5 other residents where they were voting on it.... an utter joke. We were waiting outside, and the councillors came out and told us that the the vote wasn't going to take place that evening, as other business had overrun it's time.

Off we went, naieve to their ways. Of course they voted on it that night after we had left.

It's a complete waste of our taxpayer money to make the junction more inefficient. There are no pedestrians to cross there, all services are away from that junction. They are putting in a bus lane for the one bus that passes every half an hour during the day.

Complete backhander.

I'm completely fuming about it. I have signed petitions, and sent in a letter created by the residents as a unit against it. The response we got was that everyone sent the same letter.

Damn straight we did! We all object to it!

If I wasn't at work paying my taxes all day long I would be out there with a placard.


Edit:
And another thing... I cycled and walked around there my entire life. I was born on skehard road. I cycled to eglantine school, and then over to Christ King and UCC. There is no need whatsoever for a dedicated cycle lane there, the road is huge and very safe already. We live on churchyard lane currently with a toddler, and that road is going to become a death trap as a result.

Raging!

beer enigma

bladebrew wrote: »

Andip wrote: »

Does your copy of the plan extend slightly further down the Well Road - I'm very concerned that people coming up the Well Road will throw a left at Churchyard Lane to cut out the lights & join the Boreenmanna Road by the Silver Key ?

Churchyard Lane is small enough as it is and would become a rat run....

thats a very good point, the plan shows to just below the pedestrian crossing at the top of the well road, so taking a left at churchyard lane will indeed avoid the traffic lights,
coming from douglas at 8:30 ish is going to take forever, the same coming from mahon point after 5,

i had lived in the area for nearly 5 years and the only time traffic is bad at that roundabout is when there is a gaa match just finished,
its the scale of the plans that are mind boggling

I'm 200 yards from churchyard lane & frighteningly can't see how they are going to avoid it being a cut through ! - at the old sorting office there's only room for one car width & the existing one pavement. Even if they enforce the yellow lines it's still tight for two way traffic

beer enigma

Faith wrote: »

I'm surprised Laura McGonigle was in favour of it, she seems like she has a decent head on her shoulders normally.

Just emailed her:

"Hi Laura

With the start of the road works at the junction of Skehard/ Boreenmanna / Well road I've just had another look at the plan & noticed that it doesnt show anything south of the pedestrian crossing on the Well Road. Has anything been put in place to stop people turning left from the Well Road through Churchyard Lane to access the Boreenmanna Road, thus avoiding the lights. This is a narrow road & could turn into a rat run.

Regards"

Joanieb

It's disgraceful removing this roundabout. I live in Churchyard Lane. Maybe there should be a protest meeting to let these councillors know again how we feel about it? Our quality of life will be destroyed over this!

gbee

They simply have TOO MUCH MONEY.

A rent and rate strike is in order. I've observed that ANYWHERE that traffic flows freely, they meddle and change it/

Many years ago the Mayor of San Francisco visited the city, he said the traffic problems here were deliberate as no matter how incompetent one or one's department was, they could NOT make such a mess of traffic management.

minidazzler

gbee wrote: »

They simply have TOO MUCH MONEY.

A rent and rate strike is in order. I've observed that ANYWHERE that traffic flows freely, they meddle and change it/

Many years ago the Mayor of San Francisco visited the city, he said the traffic problems here were deliberate as no matter how incompetent one or one's department was, they could NOT make such a mess of traffic management.

Having traffic problems means there is always money to fix traffic problems, which means some people still have jobs. And this being Cork where everyone knows someone and is probably related in some way, you have to keep these idiots in jobs.

gbee

minidazzler wrote: »

, you have to keep these idiots in jobs.

Except. It's now contract work, your uncle, brother, father is laid off from the corpo, so it's as likely no one you know is doing the work and the profits going to a PRIVATE company and not recycled back into the economy.

BTW, to support your summation, it is a fact that road works were started in the lead up to Christmas, expressly to give the local corpo workers their Christmas bonus.

No harm in that, except it destroyed Christmas for thousands and the road works almost never finished in the new year as 'budget' was sent [on office parties] ~

minidazzler wrote: »

, you have to keep these idiots in jobs.

:rolleyes:

bladebrew

I had assumed the council were doing the work but it seems to be this company http://www.jonscivil.ie/,

Hogzy

bladebrew wrote: »

I had assumed the council were doing the work but it seems to be this company http://www.jonscivil.ie/,

The council can't do much apart from painting lines, putting up traffic lights and filling in potholes

beer enigma

Joanieb wrote: »

It's disgraceful removing this roundabout. I live in Churchyard Lane. Maybe there should be a protest meeting to let these councillors know again how we feel about it? Our quality of life will be destroyed over this!

Chris O'Leary just phoned me - the only Counsellor to bother replying to me ! - there is no provision for Churchyard lane at all included in the plan, its basically as feared a cut through or rat-run between Well Road & Boreenmanna Road.

cork_south

Andip wrote: »

Chris O'Leary just phoned me - the only Counsellor to bother replying to me ! - there is no provision for Churchyard lane at all included in the plan, its basically as feared a cut through or rat-run between Well Road & Boreenmanna Road.

Fair dues to Chris to get back to you.
One of the 7 counsellors who voted against this abomination.

Anyone going from Douglas into town via the Well Road who knows about that shortcut (99% of people) is certainly going to take it.
Who in their right mind is going to go wait and queue at the traffic lights when there is a traffic light free route via Lovetts\Churchyard Lane.

I can guarantee you that no consellor that voted for this lives on Churchyard Lane, or in Silverdale \ Ashleigh for that matter

Maybe all those counselors who voted on it should be redircted to this thread to show how angry we (the lowly people who do not have any say in how our communities & local infrastructure are planned) are.

beer enigma

cork_south wrote: »

Fair dues to Chris to get back to you.
One of the 7 counsellors who voted against this abomination.

Anyone going from Douglas into town via the Well Road who knows about that shortcut (99% of people) is certainly going to take it.
Who in their right mind is going to go wait and queue at the traffic lights when there is a traffic light free route via Lovetts\Churchyard Lane.

I can guarantee you that no consellor that voted for this lives on Churchyard Lane, or in Silverdale \ Ashleigh for that matter

Maybe all those counselors who voted on it should be redircted to this thread to show how angry we (the lowly people who do not have any say in how our communities & local infrastructure are planned) are.

Yep - I was very impressed with Chris

Plus there's only pavement on one side of Churchyard Lane with no crossing - if you're walking from Ardmahon to the bus stop, the Key or any of the shops, you have to cross the road at the top of Ardmahon. Its bad enough at the moment, but with rush hour traffic will be nay on impossible.

mik_da_man

cork_south wrote: »

Anyone going from Douglas into town via the Well Road who knows about that shortcut (99% of people) is certainly going to take it.
Who in their right mind is going to go wait and queue at the traffic lights when there is a traffic light free route via Lovetts\Churchyard Lane.

I go that way most mornings Douglas -> Town and ocassionally use Churchyard lane. It's austonding that no-one had factored this into the plan. I expected them to make it one way tbh...
It really is going to be a mess and I feel sorry for anyone living in the area.

pwurple

Churchyard lane has been considerably more busy today and yesterday. It's people figuring out ways around the delays starting next week.

I am dreading monday mornings work trip.

Where do these guys get off making the road layout worse, spending bucketloads of our money needlessly on it, and making our lives more dangerous in the process. The mind absolutely boggles.

Anyone I have spoken to on it cannot see any earthly reason for this change. It is pure busy-work, has to be either a backhander, or an ego trip from some head honcho.

parsi

Andip wrote: »

Chris O'Leary just phoned me - the only Counsellor to bother replying to me ! - there is no provision for Churchyard lane at all included in the plan, its basically as feared a cut through or rat-run between Well Road & Boreenmanna Road.

Technically Churchyard Lane runs from Well Road to Blackrock Road. Boreenmanna Road ends at the funeral home.

It's a silly idea supposedly due to the NRA ordering that roundabouts be changed to signalised junctions in order to increase pedestrian safety.

Hogzy

Read in the examiner that part of east cork has 1 ambulance for a population of 70,000. To think 1 million is being spent on this project, imagine how many ambulances east cork could have

evilivor

parsi wrote: »

Andip wrote: »

Chris O'Leary just phoned me - the only Counsellor to bother replying to me ! - there is no provision for Churchyard lane at all included in the plan, its basically as feared a cut through or rat-run between Well Road & Boreenmanna Road.

Technically Churchyard Lane runs from Well Road to Blackrock Road. Boreenmanna Road ends at the funeral home.

It's a silly idea supposedly due to the NRA ordering that roundabouts be changed to signalised junctions in order to increase pedestrian safety.

Why is it silly to try and increase pedestrian safety?

gbee

evilivor wrote: »

Why is it silly to try and increase pedestrian safety?

Because it's a coverall due to bad design in other areas. Each application of the 'act' should be tailored to each individual roundabout.

Roundabouts were introduced to afford smooth traffic merging and minimising queuing, whilst offering FREE Flowing traffic at off peak times.

Small Roundabouts were also envisioned to remove right hand turns which are the most dangerous manoeuvres a motorist does dangerous to all road users and pedestrians alike]. This needs two roundabouts at each end of their catchment area, thus a motorist travels to the roundabout at the end of the street and comes back down to his destination, rather than blocking traffic to thurn right into his destination.

Also they should improve traffic flow at say the Angler's Rest junction coming out of town, there is massive traffic delays here as motorists queue to turn right. On many occasions I passed this traffic and went to the Ballincollig [Poulavane] roundabout and came back the road to the Angler's Rest Junction [now from the Ballincollig Side] and turned left and observed traffic, the SAME traffic still had not turned to their right.

cork_south

evilivor wrote: »

parsi wrote: »

Andip wrote: »

Chris O'Leary just phoned me - the only Counsellor to bother replying to me ! - there is no provision for Churchyard lane at all included in the plan, its basically as feared a cut through or rat-run between Well Road & Boreenmanna Road.

Technically Churchyard Lane runs from Well Road to Blackrock Road. Boreenmanna Road ends at the funeral home.

It's a silly idea supposedly due to the NRA ordering that roundabouts be changed to signalised junctions in order to increase pedestrian safety.

Why is it silly to try and increase pedestrian safety?

I take it you don't live in Churchyard lane \ Silverdale then. If you did you might have a slightly different take on it.
I have never hear of any pedestrian getting injured in the vicinity of the roundabout, have you?
If it's not broken, don't fix it.

bladebrew

I agree possibly something needs to be done to improve pedestrian safety in the area, but the scale of this plan is absolutely mental, it is changing everything for no good reason,
i dont see how they think it will be better for traffic, at least it looks they will be working away on the green area for a while without causing too much disruption,

evilivor

gbee wrote: »

evilivor wrote: »

Why is it silly to try and increase pedestrian safety?

Because it's a coverall due to bad design in other areas. Each application of the 'act' should be tailored to each individual roundabout.

Roundabouts were introduced to afford smooth traffic merging and minimising queuing, whilst offering FREE Flowing traffic at off peak times.

Small Roundabouts were also envisioned to remove right hand turns which are the most dangerous manoeuvres a motorist does dangerous to all road users and pedestrians alike]. This needs two roundabouts at each end of their catchment area, thus a motorist travels to the roundabout at the end of the street and comes back down to his destination, rather than blocking traffic to thurn right into his destination.

Also they should improve traffic flow at say the Angler's Rest junction coming out of town, there is massive traffic delays here as motorists queue to turn right. On many occasions I passed this traffic and went to the Ballincollig [Poulavane] roundabout and came back the road to the Angler's Rest Junction [now from the Ballincollig Side] and turned left and observed traffic, the SAME traffic still had not turned to their right.

I still don't understand why it is deemed silly to prioritise pedestrian safety?

Pedestrians need protection from those in vehicles - and they generally tend to be the most vulnerable in terms of safety - the young and the old.

Anything that prioritises the safety of anyone, but particularly the most vulnerable; those whose mobility is restricted; parents with buggies; must be applauded whatever minor inconvienence it may cause to motorists. It's called society.

gbee

evilivor wrote: »

It's called society.

No, it's really called silly. For a pedestrian safe car we have already made then LONGER and out of plastic and there are areas where extra safety feature are needed, in high volume areas etc and the offset in the same pedestrian breathing in more harmful gasses from ideling cars etc, etc, etc.

To make cars really safe one engineer said we'd need thirty feet long vehicles, there is a certain element of safety but from what I am seeing around the City we will be seeing more pedestrians and cyclists in accidents and with more car restrictions with poles and high curbs, accidents are ASSURED, and as we see on motorways where manoeuvre is restricted the accidents tend to be more severe, though less often, but when mistakes occur, accidents are then guaranteed.

beer enigma

evilivor wrote: »

I still don't understand why it is deemed silly to prioritise pedestrian safety?

Pedestrians need protection from those in vehicles - and they generally tend to be the most vulnerable in terms of safety - the young and the old.

Anything that prioritises the safety of anyone, but particularly the most vulnerable; those whose mobility is restricted; parents with buggies; must be applauded whatever minor inconvienence it may cause to motorists. It's called society.

Problem is this causes more danger to pedestrians than was previously there - it will actively drive traffic up through the residential areas of Ardmahon & Churchyard Lane - both relatively quiet areas.

Churchyard lane only has pavement on one side by the old post office & no crossing so anyone coming from Ardmahon has to cross churchyard lane to get to the pavement. Ardmahon is a major residential area and my kids walk along it to school - come rush hour I can envisage traffic jams outside my house with drivers trying cut through.

I've spoken to many of the neighbours & none of them knew of the plans - we're not going to take this lying down & the wheels are in motion to kick up a storm.

pwurple

Evilivor, the junction just before that roundabout is the well road with churchyard lane. It is 44 metres wide, with cars coming around a blind corner at speed. No one can cross there. There is no footpath on the opposite side. It is a pedestrian dead end. They are building a path to NOWHERE.

Think about it... Where are you going to as a pedestrian at that roundabout? There is no destination. From churchyard lane... I go up to beaumount, via the existing pedestrian crossing. Or i walk to douglas, no footpath wide enough for a buggy at the dglas end by the way. Or I go up to ballintemple. Another 50 meter crossing with no footpath on the far side.

All the pedestrian hazards are a distance away from this roundabout, and it makes much more sense to fix those, rather than spend a million euro on a place where pedestrians don't even exist. There isn't even a house with a driveway out onto the road by that roundabout. Where are the mystical pedestrians coming from?

Instead they are increasing the volumes of traffic onto the streets where there ARE houses with entrances, houses with children. Decreasing the safety of the real pedestrians, in case an imaginary one comes along.

Also, you know they have CPOd the carpark of the montisorri school on skehard road. Replacing it with a buslane. So parents can no longer park in safety to drop off their 3 year olds... Instead they have to herd them across a buslane to it.

The pedestrian safety increase claim is a red herring. It decreases pedestrian safety considerably, this is my main problem with it.

Owen

parsi wrote: »

Technically Churchyard Lane runs from Well Road to Blackrock Road. Boreenmanna Road ends at the funeral home

Blackrock road is nowhere near Churchyard Lane though? Or am I wrong? I always assumed Blackrock road was the one with SMA church on it.

Oddly, my Satnav has a different name for the road between the roundabout and the funeral home. Must go out for a spin later and see what it thinks it's called. Google maps says it's all Boreenmana, but I'm not so sure. Will suss it out later on.

beer enigma

Owen wrote: »

Blackrock road is nowhere near Churchyard Lane though? Or am I wrong? I always assumed Blackrock road was the one with SMA church on it.

Oddly, my Satnav has a different name for the road between the roundabout and the funeral home. Must go out for a spin later and see what it thinks it's called. Google maps says it's all Boreenmana, but I'm not so sure. Will suss it out later on.

Afaik the section of road past the rugby club is Temple Hill

Owen

Yeah, I thought that too, but my nav has some weird ass name for it.