David Norris wants Ireland to be part of the British Commonwealth

K-9

Seanchai wrote: »

Have you any evidence for that? Or are you wilfully overlooking how Norris's speeches have been represented/misrepresented in the media as being pro-British/anti-Irish? That representation/misrepresentation in papers like the Sunday Independent, the Belfast Telegraph, the Sunday Times and by a neo-unionist organisation like Ruth Dudley Edward's Reform Group is hardly the fault of republicans, no matter how you cut it.

I don't read them so they wouldn't sway me at all. It's from posters on this site and others.

Still don't think they'll effect his vote as most bringing this up would have classed him as a "West Brit" anyway.

Preaching to the converted really.

Voodoo_rasher

gremlin-voiced pillock who ****s over J Joyce literature won't get to be pres i dent.

sheesh

I think its a great idea as the queen is now our head of state we can get rid of the presidency thus saving ourselves some cash.

my plan is as follows.

1. join common wealth.
2. get rid of office of president.
3. profit!!!!!

we don't even need a 4th step to the plan

:cool:

Madd Finn

Rejoining the Commonwealth is an unnecessary and spurious idea. We are already in the EU along with Britain. We have unfettered travel, working and welfare arrangements, (apart from the fetters imposed by Ryanair) and so we have ABSOLUTELY no need to rejoin the commonwealth.

It's not an issue. And even if it was, Norris's views on it would be no closer to realisation if he did become president because policy is not something he can advance.

This OP is a bit like the Swift-boating tactic employed against Jon Kerry in the US seven years ago. It won't change my intention to vote for Norris if he stands.

Nor will the knowledge that he wasn't actually born here; he was born in what was then the Belgian Congo. But that doesn't preclude him from being President of Ireland.

He's a national treasure. He's the sort of person we need as president. Not some godawful Fianna Fail backed grandee.

LordSutch

Madd Finn wrote: »

Rejoining the Commonwealth is an unnecessary and spurious idea. We are already in the EU along with Britain. We have unfettered travel, working and welfare arrangements, (apart from the fetters imposed by Ryanair) and so we have ABSOLUTELY no need to rejoin the commonwealth.

So much for making closer ties with the North & Britain.

Surely re-joining the Commonwealth would hasten the Unity on this island that you people crave? and as I said in previous posts, the way we left the Commonwealth leaves a lot to be desired, (http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/eich_01/eich_01_00096.html) John A.Costello has a lot to answer for.

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

So much for making closer ties with the North & Britain.

Surely re-joining the Commonwealth would hasten the Unity on this island that you people crave? and as I said in previous posts, the way we left the Commonwealth leaves a lot to be desired, (http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/eich_01/eich_01_00096.html) John A.Costello has a lot to answer for.

What Planet do you live on? Do you really believe in what you are saying?

1. You do not need to join any other clubs in order to make closer ties with the North and Britian. This can be done with the status quo. Close economic activity and the North's participation in the defunct All Ireland Council. Why should the South always be the ones to make the first moves. ? We have enough problems with Brussels dictating in areas the treaty does not provide competence, and we have problems even when they do have competence. Why should be ever tolerate another country influencing/telling/suggesting what our policies should be. What happens when we disagree with foreign policy? We have our own country with limited power, we don't need to get into a another boys club. Moreover, we should be free to associate or disassociate our selves from bellicouse countries like Britian when it suits us when we are dealing with other countries eg Argentina, who are not too fond of the Brits.

2. If you think the Unionist in Belfast (and even the NAtionalist) will give up their gig in Stormount and look to Dublin for Political Guidance, then you are naive. Unionist do not intend to break political ties with Britian. Ireland want minium political ties outside of the EU.

Do enlighten us as to why John A Costello has alot to answer for. What difference in how we left the Commonwealth, it was done and we have had well over 50 years to address any short comings. We had some other clown making ridiculous comments like this about Dev, and he has yet to explain himself. You suggesting that the Civil Rights Movement would never needed to have happen then? Last time I checked, connection or no connection with Britian is certaintly not the reason for the current Irish made economic collapse.

What is sickening is that those like you seem to have a problem with Nationalist taking such a stance and they are considered dated in the 19th Century. It is pathetic, you don't hear nationalists criticise or complain that "west brits" or "pro british" seem to have a problem with living in the 21st century and long for the 19th century when they were top dog.

ceadaoin.

caseyann wrote: »

lol It will come on tell us how.
I am not freting bout it but dont want to have anything to do with its fakery

caseyann wrote: »

Rubbish people are even flying in from other countries to protest against it apparently.

I live in London and the Royal Wedding is a huge deal here. Yes some people might be protesting it but many more people are flying in to line the streets to watch. There have been people camped at Westminster for a couple of days now.

I'm not interested in it myself but the Royal Wedding is generating lots of money for the economy. Saying it's rubbish doesn't make it not true

Dionysus

LordSutch wrote: »

So much for making closer ties with the North & Britain.

Surely re-joining the Commonwealth would hasten the Unity on this island that you people crave? and as I said in previous posts, the way we left the Commonwealth leaves a lot to be desired, (http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/eich_01/eich_01_00096.html) John A.Costello has a lot to answer for.

The Commonwealth is the past. As many people have pointed out Ireland would have no tangible benefit whatsoever from joining it. It's like the last hurrah of the Empire, something which has outlived its usefulness for all except countries trying to get some of the EU market of 330 million people, or cheap raw materials from some impoverished country that's ruled by a kleptocracy. We have unfettered access to the EU market already. We have significant trade with Britain but today, unlike pre-1949, we have a far healthier trade balance with only under 17% of our exports now with Britain compared with 90% when we were part of the British Commonwealth. Ireland's biggest export market today is the United States at just under 21% and Belgium at just under 18%. Not having all our eggs in one basket is an infinitely more sensible position for Ireland to have. No sane person could deny this. Politically, Ireland has excellent relations with Britain; much better, in fact, than when we were part of the British Commonwealth.

Greater integration with, and involvement in, the EU, whether some people like it or not, is where Ireland's future lies. Our representatives should be building up alliances within that commonwealth and formulating policies with member countries of the EU rather than trying to resurrect the Commonwealth just to placate a eurosceptic lobby which is threatened by the rise of the EU. The growth of India will undoubtedly lead to them leaving the British-centric Commonwealth in due course anyway and forming an Asia-centric parallel organisation. Sic transit gloria mundi.

LordSutch

So I take it you guys dont see any correlation between re-joining the Commonwealth & a more United island of Ireland? One of the main reasons Devalera didn't want us to leave was because it would pull us even further away from the North & Britain, and that's exactly what leaving did.

I think Ireland should re-join the Commonwealth & Unite the island as one Commonwealth country.

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

So I take it you guys dont see any correlation between re-joining the Commonwealth & a more United island of Ireland? One of the main reasons Devalera didn't want us to leave was because it would pull us even further away from the North & Britain, and that's exactly what leaving did.

I think Ireland should re-join the Commonwealth & Unite the island as one Commonwealth country.

It does not matter one fiddlers fart what we do. Even if Westminister tells the Unionists and their people that it should/must join a united Ireland, there will be trouble. Britian can't and won't force them. Unionists will make every excuse under the sun anyway.

Dev did not want to leave because it was not him who was getting to pull the plug, no more no less. It must have hurt him that it was a supposed "pro british" party who removed Ireland from the Empire. Some seem for forget that Dev took little consideration about remaining united with the North at the break of world war 2 when it refused to allow the 26 counties to join the war or even allow for british to us the ports. Others, who are bit of the historically challenged would have used that pathetic belief/idea that Dev refused to join the war in return for Churchills' cast iron guarantee / promise that the north would be theirs, even if still within the empire. - well done, you did not fall for that one. It was envitable that the 26 counties would go its own way. The 26 counties was politically independent and seperate in all but titles and paper by the begining of WW2. and politicians needed to make some sounding to make sure that it had some control over the militant groups.

You seem to think the little issue of bigtory (on both sides), the effect of Civil War, and rightful refusal of Ireland to join the allies in ww2 had less to wide the unionists and the south than the big gesture of leaving the common wealth? please? Unionist made their minds up a very long time before 1948-49

LordSutch

walrusgumble wrote: »

It does not matter one fiddlers fart what we do. Even if Westminister tells the Unionists and their people that it should/must join a united Ireland, there will be trouble. Britian can't and won't force them. Unionists will make every excuse under the sun anyway.

Dev did not want to leave because it was not him who was getting to pull the plug, no more no less. It must have hurt him that it was a supposed "pro british" party who removed Ireland from the Empire. Some seem for forget that Dev took little consideration about remaining united with the North at the break of world war 2 when it refused to allow the 26 counties to join the war or even allow for british to us the ports. Others, who are bit of the historically challenged would have used that pathetic belief/idea that Dev refused to join the war in return for Churchills' cast iron guarantee / promise that the north would be theirs, even if still within the empire. - well done, you did not fall for that one. It was envitable that the 26 counties would go its own way. The 26 counties was politically independent and seperate in all but titles and paper by the begining of WW2. and politicians needed to make some sounding to make sure that it had some control over the militant groups.

You seem to think the little issue of bigtory (on both sides), the effect of Civil War, and rightful refusal of Ireland to join the allies in ww2 had less to wide the unionists and the south than the big gesture of leaving the common wealth? please? Unionist made their minds up a very long time before 1948-49

Deary me, all this talk of 1920s Civil War, Old Empire, & World War II is soo old hat :rolleyes: what you need to consider is that in 2011 David Norris & many other Irish luminaries see the Commonwealth for what it is, or should I say 'They see the optics' and the message that would be put out there, and if we even think about re-joining the ramifications would all be positive, from opening new trade links with the rest of the Commonwealth, to a new & more United relationship with the North!

You do crave a United Ireland, don't you ???

PatsytheNazi

LordSutch wrote: »

Deary me, all this talk of 1920s Civil War, Old Empire, & World War II is soo old hat :rolleyes: what you need to consider is that in 2011 David Norris & many other Irish luminaries see the Commonwealth for what it is, or should I say 'They see the optics' and the message that would be put out there, and if we even think about re-joining the ramifications would all be positive, from opening new trade links with the rest of the Commonwealth, to a new & more United relationship with the North!

You do crave a United Ireland, don't you ???

When the south was in the Commonwealth, the unionist regime attacked and discriminated against the nationalists in the six counties regardless. Rejoining it wouldn't change them one tiny little bit. Indeed such servile pandering to unionism only makes them even more vicious and arrogant.

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

Deary me, all this talk of 1920s Civil War, Old Empire, & World War II is soo old hat :rolleyes: what you need to consider is that in 2011 David Norris & many other Irish luminaries see the Commonwealth for what it is, or should I say 'They see the optics' and the message that would be put out there, and if we even think about re-joining the ramifications would all be positive, from opening new trade links with the rest of the Commonwealth, to a new & more United relationship with the North!

You do crave a United Ireland, don't you ???

Crave a united ireland to the point of violence? eh no and certaintly not at the expense of complete free republic that we enjoy within in todays standards (noting economic dependencies on others and eu) . It won't happen in my life time.

You asked a question and you raised historical assumptions. I simply gave a full account of what most stand for and why and explained why you are talking nonsense. You have not rebutted any of this incidences.


You, either with breath taking arrogance or complete stupidity corrlate the actual leaving of the British Empire/Commonwealth with the widening gap between North and South. I explained why you were wrong and like it or not, Civil War, the violence between both sides and Ireland's actions in WW2 is the reason enough to have widen the gap. So if you do not like being given clear and accurate answers then don't ask questions and don't make historical assumptions which you clealry failed to think about before asking. Roll Eyes in deed.

Yes it is old hat. What you need to consider and accept, is that we in the 21st century see no need to be part of an ancient club when we have the EU. We say this irrespective of the past. Why can't you accept that and cut out the bollox assumption that we nationalist are stuck in a time warp. If you want part of the union, join the orange order or go to britian. Everyone here acknowledges that the Commonwealth is good for other countries. But most of these countries are on the other side of the world. We are in Europe. Historically, and dare I say it, during when ancient Ireland was responsible for educating a lot of europe and plaguing them with religion, Ireland always looked to Europe and not Britian.

For all that it is good, how many pakistani, indian, australian and New Zealand people can get residence into the UK easier? How many can get british citizenship easier, simply because of their union connections - very very few. How many Pakistani nationals get refused entry into the mother land?They still have to go through the same rigamor as an American (well, ok, visa requirements are less severe for the American and Aussie) You think that Britain would allow Ireland or any other member get better treatment and or advantage in the areas of trade than britian itself? please. Bearing in mind the natural shut down of business due to the violence in Northern Ireland, how many northern business men enjoy the lovely so called trade advantageous of being a member of the common wealth - don't they too look to europe, america? I don't doubt that the commonwealth can be good for african countries with Britain's nose in the pie and willing to pay out - the real threat is from china. but there is nothing stopping Ireland looking for a bit of the pie. Tony O'Reilly has done well in South Africa (commonwealth and his knight hood has no connection to his success)

Will Irish people get into Canada, Australia, New Zealand any easier?

Was Norris actually asked for his opinion or did he actually just throw out his views on the Commonwealth stealth in a "think out loud" momement? If its the latter, why ask a question and give an answer to a question that many Irish citizens did not want to know, entertain or care for. Again, if he was specifically asked for his view, thats different, at least he is honest.


"from opening new trade links with the rest of the Commonwealth, to a new & more United relationship with the North!"

Bollocks! We can open these avenue of trades already if we want. Nothing stopping us. If Unionists don't want to take part in the already established All Ireland Council, that is there loss. Answer that, justify why the North are relucant and have always been reluctant to take part in this Council. Why the hell should the Republic do all the running?

Places like India, Pakistan, Australia and New Zealand will be far more interested in countries tax rates, corportation tax etc than some fake poxy historical colonial ties and the old boys club. Nothing stopping Ireland in improving its language abilities, prices, skills, competition.

We have demanded that you and others specifically point out how this will help better than EU.


Seriously, touch up on your history and politics and cut out the toss or at least go "calm down i am only playing devils advocate"

We know what Norris is saying. We have no problem with it, but he should be more honest and say, if he was saying (which he isn't) we should join the Commonwealth.

The commonwealth, like a clingy bunny boiler girlfriend. Lovely to relate too but you don't want or need to jump into bed with. Funny enough, would Britian or the other countries even want us? Are there block votes etc and more influence and voting rights? If we want to enter treaties or agreements with Britain or any other country, why the hell should be feel the need to consult or listen to the views of other countries? (so long as its not within eu remit)

InigoMontoya

Stark wrote: »

He wants democracy in Ireland now? Next he'll be wanting the gays to marry after he's done reducing the minimum wage to €1.84 an hour. No-one vote for this Norris chap!

How many more of these "David Norris <insert sensationalist unsubstantiated claim here>" threads are we going to see?

I heard that David Norris creates sensationalist "David Norris <insert sensationalist unsubstantiated claim here>" threads here to raise his profile ahead of the presidential election.

walrusgumble

InigoMontoya wrote: »

I heard that David Norris creates sensationalist "David Norris <insert sensationalist unsubstantiated claim here>" threads here to raise his profile ahead of the presidential election.

David Norris dishes out free denny saugages and free life time entry to the joyce centre to all - that would be nice. get my vote.

LordSutch

Well I think we should re-join, and I think it was a disgrace the way John A Costello pulled us out back in 48/49.

I cant be bothered arguing with you walrusgumble, you have your mind made up, and your instinctive nationalism puts you on the other side of the fence to me, I could argue all night, pages & pages just like you, but I won't, (I have read all your Anti-Commonwealth jibes) but suffice to say that if David Norris openly advocates re-joining the Commonwealth, then he gets my vote, but the claims need to be taken with a pinch of salt, as only last week there was another thread about him supporting the 1916 Rebels, and if that's the case, then he would lose my vote!

A difficult tightrope for any prospective President to walk . . .

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

Well I think we should re-join, and I think it was a disgrace the way John A Costello pulled us out back in 48/49.

I cant be bothered arguing with you walrusgumble, you have your mind made up, and your instinctive nationalism puts you on the other side of the fence to me, I could argue all night, pages & pages just like you, but I won't, (I have read all your Anti-Commonwealth jibes) but suffice to say that if David Norris openly advocates re-joining the Commonwealth, then he gets my vote, but the claims need to be taken with a pinch of salt, as only last week there was another thread about him supporting the 1916 Rebels, and if that's the case, then he would lose my vote!

A difficult tightrope for any prospective President to walk . . .

you can't simply because you can't provide 3 relevant reasons for justifying it for ireland. you want closer connections to the north but won't justify unionist failure to continue with the council,despite a majority support of gfa & other

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

Well I think we should re-join, and I think it was a disgrace the way John A Costello pulled us out back in 48/49.

I cant be bothered arguing with you walrusgumble, you have your mind made up, and your instinctive nationalism puts you on the other side of the fence to me, I could argue all night, pages & pages just like you, but I won't, (I have read all your Anti-Commonwealth jibes) but suffice to say that if David Norris openly advocates re-joining the Commonwealth, then he gets my vote, but the claims need to be taken with a pinch of salt, as only last week there was another thread about him supporting the 1916 Rebels, and if that's the case, then he would lose my vote!

A difficult tightrope for any prospective President to walk . . .

my comments on the common wealth are no more than tongue in check.you ignore my acknowledgement of its goodness for others.you espouse your unionism, which is your right,yet refuse on some arrogant notion that nationalist would not discuss

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

Well I think we should re-join, and I think it was a disgrace the way John A Costello pulled us out back in 48/49.

I cant be bothered arguing with you walrusgumble, you have your mind made up, and your instinctive nationalism puts you on the other side of the fence to me, I could argue all night, pages & pages just like you, but I won't, (I have read all your Anti-Commonwealth jibes) but suffice to say that if David Norris openly advocates re-joining the Commonwealth, then he gets my vote, but the claims need to be taken with a pinch of salt, as only last week there was another thread about him supporting the 1916 Rebels, and if that's the case, then he would lose my vote!

A difficult tightrope for any prospective President to walk . . .

you won't last many pages going by your inability to support your contention.you also ignore subsequent governments acceptance of the republic & its people who recognise bunreacht na heireann.costello was hardly a disgrace

LordSutch

walrusgumble wrote: »

you won't last many pages going by your inability to support your contention.you also ignore subsequent governments acceptance of the republic & its people who recognise bunreacht na heireann.costello was hardly a disgrace

Have you actually read this in detail ???

Click 'Costello's biggest Faux pas' > http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/eich_01/eich_01_00096.html

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

Have you actually read this in detail ???

Click 'Costello's biggest Faux pas' > http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/eich_01/eich_01_00096.html

I am well aware of HOW Costello acted, you would know this even from an elementary secondary school history book. It took many by surprise, many in FG say it as their obligations to honour the Treaty, some where quite pro british. Yes, a little embarrassing. But you ignore the fact that he never lost his position as Taoiseach over this. People got over it quickly, some a bit fearful, some more concerned for their own position.

Even your artilce argees with what I said, it was all about political one man up manship, who will get Ireland out of the Commonwealth quickier. One of the man reasons for the intitial success of Cumann na Poblachta (remember MacBride was Chief of Staff of the IRA in the 1920's and throughout his legal career defended many an IRA man, even those accussed of killing Gardaí) was because Republicans were dellusioned with Dev on the Ulster question and its treatment of Republican prisoners. Its no surprise that CnP, an openly republican party, would seek to influence. Its not like FG did not know the type of people they were.

You also ignore that Ireland was a de facto free and independent country (well, politically) all but in name by this period. Even Britian realised this during the Treaty Ports. By 1940, Ireland had repudiated much of what was contained in the Treaty. Wouldn't De Valera's treatment of the Governor General McNeill be worse?

De Valera made a lot of noise about Ulster but was willing to do little or nothing. The Position of the Catholic Church in the Constitution is an example. Check out John Bowman's book on Dev & the Ulster Question. He really only tended to use it to hide the countries economic problems and used it as an excuse regarding entry to the war. De Valera, rightly, had to consider the practical problems eg trade and emmigration, shame he did not act practicially before that. Christ he once said that his politics would have been akin to the Tories.

Politically, it would not have killed Ireland from having some form of association with the Empire/Britian / Commonwealth, indeed it might have hurt Ireland in the short - medium term when it left, but a majority of people had no gra for continuing any association with Britian.

As much as informative that link was, it says absolutely nothing that has not already been said or discussed in documentaries, books etc. You would swear that you are speaking to someone that only learned this for the very first time today. It would have been assumed everyone is aware of this. There is nothing to suggest why exactly Costello has an awful lot to answer for. Neither have you outlined that it was a disgrace to leave the Common wealth - what because of the lack of Dáil debtates and motions? Yes a little dictatorial, fine, but its not like it would have been completely opposed. Again, it received implicit support by the people every time we voted in general elections and referedums thereafter.

Despite Ireland's de facto independence, the international world did not recognise Ireland as a separate country. Roosevely most certaintly did not with his attitude towards Ireland and its neutral policy and its right to have its own international policy during WW2. WW2 was the dawn of a "new world order" and it was time for Ireland to move. Because of its often (not always) bad relations it was best to have a cleanish break from Britian.

The act by Costello would not be the most diplomatic one, but you conveniently forgot to mention that your link provides the
sentence,

"declaration did at least have popular support in the new Republic."


Again, provide 3 relevant reasons why Ireland should join?

You want close connections with the North? Why does it not continue to participate in the All Ireland Coucil, even if it is only a chatting club. Why should the south do all the running and pandering?

Returning to the gulf between North and South, the words "suggest" and "further increased" indicates that the act is not soley responsible. Its a cop out to say so. Ulster Unionists made their minds up a long time ago, what we have we hold. They could hardly have been shocked that one day the south would leave? Once again, a minority dictating the majority.

meditraitor

David Norris wants Ireland to be part of the British Commonwealth

No he doesn't !


Whats the real reason for this thread?

Dionysus

meditraitor wrote: »

No he doesn't !

Whats the real reason for this thread?

I didn't bother reading any of this as the presidency is so unimportant I'm in favour of its abolition. However, a quick look at the Belfast Telegraph article linked in the OP and it's clearly headlined: 'Republic of Ireland should rejoin Commonwealth, says senator'.

zuroph

Dionysus wrote: »

I didn't bother reading any of this as the presidency is so unimportant I'm in favour of its abolition. However, a quick look at the Belfast Telegraph article linked in the OP and it's clearly headlined: 'Republic of Ireland should rejoin Commonwealth, says senator'.

the newspaper title is misleading too. Shocking that the media would twist words to stir up some sensationalism! :pac:

read the rest of the article, not just the title.

phantom_lord

Dionysus wrote: »

I didn't bother reading any of this as the presidency is so unimportant I'm in favour of its abolition. However, a quick look at the Belfast Telegraph article linked in the OP and it's clearly headlined: 'Republic of Ireland should rejoin Commonwealth, says senator'.

Any yet the actual quotes attributed to him were:

"should it be demonstrated that this is what the Irish people wish I believe that it could be accomplished with a minimum of fuss".

"New successful applicants such as Rwanda have recently joined the Commonwealth even though they were never a British colony. It would produce very useful cultural, financial and political contacts for this country and among other things would enable Irish athletes to compete in the Commonwealth Games, something which I am sure they would welcome."

My name is URL

meditraitor wrote: »

No he doesn't !


Whats the real reason for this thread?

I think it's safe enough to assume that he would like Ireland to rejoin the Commonwealth. Not that it should matter one iota what his personal feelings are on the subject, as he'll never be the one to decide on such a move.

He's involved with the Reform Movement, and spoke at the launch of one of their books - Ireland and the Commonwealth: Towards Membership

gurramok

phantom_lord wrote: »

Any yet the actual quotes attributed to him were:

"should it be demonstrated that this is what the Irish people wish I believe that it could be accomplished with a minimum of fuss".

"New successful applicants such as Rwanda have recently joined the Commonwealth even though they were never a British colony. It would produce very useful cultural, financial and political contacts for this country and among other things would enable Irish athletes to compete in the Commonwealth Games, something which I am sure they would welcome."

Why is this issue so important to him?

And why don't France, Holland, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark...name that country in the EU bar the Med islands join the Commonwealth if the Commonwealth is such a great club as you describe?

meditraitor

My name is URL wrote: »

I think it's safe enough to assume that he would like Ireland to rejoin the Commonwealth. [/I]

Were did you come up with that nugget? Did he tell you himself?

alex73

Ireland back in the Commonwealth... Just put it to referendum and see how far it gets.

LordSutch

walrusgumble wrote: »

You want close connections with the North? Why does it not continue to participate in the All Ireland Coucil, even if it is only a chatting club. Why should the south do all the running and pandering?

You guys want to Unite with the North don't you? so what's the big hang up with re-joining the Commonwealth? "the All Ireland Coucil" amounts to nothing more than a talking shop filled with hot air, so I will end by saying that leaving the Commonwealth in the fashion that we did, was one step too far, but one step that can finally be addressed in the New World Order, where Ireland is an equal to any other country, whils't being connected to our neighbouring island 'Britain' + India, & Australia & Canada + all the other Commonwealth countries all over the world. I find it odd that Britains closest family member still holds itself at arms length from re-joining the Commonwealth.

Ireland needs to grow up & to hook up with the Commonwealth.

John A Costello should have been shot fired on the spot!

My name is URL

meditraitor wrote: »

Were did you come up with that nugget? Did he tell you himself?

I merely assume it to be the case. Is there anything to suggest that my reasoning is flawed?

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

You guys want to Unite with the North don't you? so what's the big hang up with re-joining the Commonwealth? "the All Ireland Coucil" amounts to nothing more than a talking shop filled with hot air, so I will end by saying that leaving the Commonwealth in the fashion that we did, was one step too far, but one step that can finally be addressed in the New World Order, where Ireland is an equal to any other country, whils't being connected to our neighbouring island 'Britain' + India, & Australia & Canada + all the other Commonwealth countries all over the world. I find it odd that Britains closest family member still holds itself at arms length from re-joining the Commonwealth.

Ireland needs to grow up & to hook up with the Commonwealth.

John A Costello should have been shot fired on the spot!

again minorities dictating to the majority.your sense of historical facts are amusing,family?the commonwealth is no more than a talking shop in light of eu.c'wealth=old world

walrusgumble

LordSutch wrote: »

You guys want to Unite with the North don't you? so what's the big hang up with re-joining the Commonwealth? "the All Ireland Coucil" amounts to nothing more than a talking shop filled with hot air, so I will end by saying that leaving the Commonwealth in the fashion that we did, was one step too far, but one step that can finally be addressed in the New World Order, where Ireland is an equal to any other country, whils't being connected to our neighbouring island 'Britain' + India, & Australia & Canada + all the other Commonwealth countries all over the world. I find it odd that Britains closest family member still holds itself at arms length from re-joining the Commonwealth.

Ireland needs to grow up & to hook up with the Commonwealth.

John A Costello should have been shot fired on the spot!

grow up?explain what the advantages are for an eu country?after uk,where is ni getting its money?not india or auz.ireland joined eec to get away from the uk.india is a kip btw

irishh_bob

LordSutch wrote: »

You guys want to Unite with the North don't you? so what's the big hang up with re-joining the Commonwealth? "the All Ireland Coucil" amounts to nothing more than a talking shop filled with hot air, so I will end by saying that leaving the Commonwealth in the fashion that we did, was one step too far, but one step that can finally be addressed in the New World Order, where Ireland is an equal to any other country, whils't being connected to our neighbouring island 'Britain' + India, & Australia & Canada + all the other Commonwealth countries all over the world. I find it odd that Britains closest family member still holds itself at arms length from re-joining the Commonwealth.

Ireland needs to grow up & to hook up with the Commonwealth.

John A Costello should have been shot fired on the spot!

rejoining the commonwealth would be a step back towards the uk , i for one have no wish to rejoin an out of date club which is nothing but a throwback to imperilism and the glory of britain , my self esteem is not that low , as for wanting a united ireland , the south ( and the nationalists in northern ireland ) has compromised enough already for northern unionists , what with our vote to overturn the constitutional claim over the six counties , its thier turn next to extend an olive branch

johncam13

meditraitor wrote: »

No he doesn't !


Whats the real reason for this thread?

All i can say is i listened to Norris argue this with the journalist John Waters so he does. It makes sence that he speaks like an english aristocrat and acts like one.If your gonna be president of Ireland you could sound like it and not act like he is not is he's ashamed. He cant represent the Irish like that. open our eyes people the tds and senators we have r bad enough. Lets have a bit of dignaty with a normal president.
use our votes properly this time

getz

walrusgumble wrote: »

again minorities dictating to the majority.your sense of historical facts are amusing,family?the commonwealth is no more than a talking shop in light of eu.c'wealth=old world

the EU [commonwealth ]is in not in good shape,with the likes of portugal,ireland,spain and greece [pigs]]soon to become second class citizens,in the late 40s france did ask to join the commonwealth but was turned down.

Benny_Cake

johncam13 wrote: »

All i can say is i listened to Norris argue this with the journalist John Waters so he does. It makes sence that he speaks like an english aristocrat and acts like one.If your gonna be president of Ireland you could sound like it and not act like he is not is he's ashamed. He cant represent the Irish like that. open our eyes people the tds and senators we have r bad enough. Lets have a bit of dignaty with a normal president.
use our votes properly this time

"Normal President"? And what exactly is normal? I've never heard Norris sound anything other than proud to be Irish.Just which accents should be blocked from the Presidency in your opinion?

Denerick

irishh_bob wrote: »

rejoining the commonwealth would be a step back towards the uk , i for one have no wish to rejoin an out of date club which is nothing but a throwback to imperilism and the glory of britain , my self esteem is not that low , as for wanting a united ireland , the south ( and the nationalists in northern ireland ) has compromised enough already for northern unionists , what with our vote to overturn the constitutional claim over the six counties , its thier turn next to extend an olive branch

Republicans are in no position to demand anything while veterans of 'the struggle' continue to murder people, and while they continue to embrace a disgusting ideology that promotes violence and fascism above all other forms of legitimate democratic activity.

So long as the insane ramblings of the men of 1916 are cherished in this country, 'Ireland will never be at peace'.

walrusgumble

getz wrote: »

the EU [commonwealth ]is in not in good shape,with the likes of portugal,ireland,spain and greece [pigs]]soon to become second class citizens,in the late 40s france did ask to join the commonwealth but was turned down.

ffs,over 60 years ago!just proves it an old world order,no modern reasons,just knee jerk reactions.even britain had imf after.ask your self why france was refused,only britain wanted to be top dog.bet france are delighted now,joined eec in50's instead.irelands problems are self inflicted,eec did loads to put us into the big leagues.eu are not responsible for imf.maybe we should not have joined the single currency.that was our choice.there is nothing stopping ireland having independent treaties with c'wealth nations.what are the real/additional advantages to c'wealth.bar uk there is no free movement,no freedom of service&capitail.a lot of c'wealth are 2nd&3rd world nations.already have links with can,nz,aus&sa.if we leave eu,we still owe germany millions.

walrusgumble

Denerick wrote: »

Republicans are in no position to demand anything while veterans of 'the struggle' continue to murder people, and while they continue to embrace a disgusting ideology that promotes violence and fascism above all other forms of legitimate democratic activity.

So long as the insane ramblings of the men of 1916 are cherished in this country, 'Ireland will never be at peace'.

you suggesting that stormount ni 1920-1998 was legitimate democracy?hate saying this but even hume knows that sunningdale wouldnt have happened simply on protest basis.now aftermath is a different story.even sinn fein have moved on yet people love draggingit up.dont recall david irvine& gusty spence getting such crap.rte have pandered to paisley more than once-same man who shared a platform with billy wright,so did trimble.cant blame 1916 for this.redmond had failed ireland-he should have established dublin parliament in 1914 immediately.connolly should have been heeded regarding secteranism&belfast

walrusgumble

Benny_Cake wrote: »

"Normal President"? And what exactly is normal? I've never heard Norris sound anything other than proud to be Irish.Just which accents should be blocked from the Presidency in your opinion?

one thats party loyality forever(lenihan snr) and one that can't be understood(healy rae)so, norris will do fine.jimmy carr had a joke that ones accent would be like that if they applied themselves to great things

irishh_bob

Denerick wrote: »

Republicans are in no position to demand anything while veterans of 'the struggle' continue to murder people, and while they continue to embrace a disgusting ideology that promotes violence and fascism above all other forms of legitimate democratic activity.

So long as the insane ramblings of the men of 1916 are cherished in this country, 'Ireland will never be at peace'.

as if those masked fat guys who issued a statement last week were in anyway representitive of anyone , constitutional republicanism in northern ireland has compromised a great deal in the past twenty years

Killer Pigeon

Norris just wants to be Queen.

walrusgumble

explain when do the c'wealth nations meet?what binding decisions are made?by whom and how? what's ni's role?what % of income for each nation is due to membership?who does well out of it?will the queen be head?can ireland t do deals with these nations as it is?whats stopping them doing more?whats citizenship & immigration rules like?what does china & usa think?what do ordinary british people think of it?any loss of soverignty? answer those questions.historic reasons(previously forced) are not enough

walrusgumble

irishh_bob wrote: »

as if those masked fat guys who issued a statement last week were in anyway representitive of anyone , constitutional republicanism in northern ireland has compromised a great deal in the past twenty years

a majority of people supported them and still do.our old article 2&3 w turned out to be merely aspirational.dev since 1940's saw ni problem only being achieved by consent (even ADAMS saw this in the 1980's).sf have & will achieve more in government,something unionist would have puked on 20 years ago.irish citizenship is now recognised,at least by dublin & london.they have more say now.republicans really the loosers here?even london forced the unionist at times.people are war weary.not much good wrapping the green flag around me or wearing a purple & orange sash when on the dole que,together.

anymore

Seanchai wrote: »

Of course, with that analogy you're omitting:

1. that the RUC was 97% Protestant and did not have the support of the majority in the nationalist community. Can the same be said for the PSNI? Most definitely not.

2. That regardless of the British dropping "British" from the British Commonwealth's title, the British queen remains the only person who has a right to be head of the British Commonwealth still today in 2011.

3. Dropping the "British" from the title was, and remains, an example of the British trying to extend their imperial powers beyond the lifetime of their empire. Why you believe Ireland should facilitate this nationalistic egotrip for the British is unclear.
4. Not all of us are keen to sell cosmetic changes as radical signs of inclusiveness and racial equality when that is clearly not the case. Take Kenya, a part of the British Commonwealth where its people were tortured by the British in horrendous numbers, over 10,000 were executed and near 1,000,000 were interned in "enclosed villages" in the 1950s by the British. Crimes which the British could not get away with any other people except, on a lesser scale, with the Irish in the North of Ireland from 1969 on.

It should be mentioned that the British first developed and tested their theory on concentration camps during the second Boer war in South Africa ; over 24,000 women and children are recorded as dying in these camps - curiousily when there are calls to honour the brave irish soldiers who served in the british army, the brave lads who stood guard as these 24,000 innocents died are never mentioned.

walrusgumble

tis a shame that does advocating joining the c'wealth can't try and respond to 6-7 simple questions put tothem.yet have the arrogance to talk down to opponents without simply convincly stating why or attempt too.arrogantly refuse to debate on basis that we have made our minds up,yet when given the chance have nothing to say.accuses us of bringing history up even though they started it.not one developed modern reason as an alternative to the eu (i suspect understandable knee jerking from some) bar some questionable historical link of brotherhood.(they were not always bad)

getz

joining the commonwealth would put ireland in a world class position.at this moment in time ireland has very little power in world politics,as a home country of the commonwealth, they would be on the top table,along side britain canada,australia,and new zealand,making major decisions that can help billions of of people in 52 countries,senior irish politicians understand this,that is why this question will keep on coming up.

Nodin

getz wrote: »

joining the commonwealth would put ireland in a world class position.at this moment in time ireland has very little power in world politics,as a home country of the commonwealth, they would be on the top table,along side britain canada,australia,and new zealand,making major decisions that can help billions of of people in 52 countries,senior irish politicians understand this,that is why this question will keep on coming up.

I believe I asked you something earlier. Would you mind getting back to me?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71907648&postcount=66

getz

Nodin wrote: »

I believe I asked you something earlier. Would you mind getting back to me?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=71907648&postcount=66

yes nodin,the first and formost thing was ,when ireland left the commonwealth,citizens from the free state automatically became aliens ,with no legal right to work or live in the united kingdom,if that had happened ireland would without doubt would have been in a mess,it was only the australians who convinced britain to back off,words used was "its a irish thing"the commonwealth has always ,before the EU,the main trading partners for the UK and ireland,its still big buisness with many of the commonwealth countries in asia,and with the EU having problems,it maybe time not to leave all your eggs in one basket