building new house advice

THEIRISHMOB

hey guys.
Im planning to start building a new house in the next couple of months.
I plan to do it by direct labour as I know loads of tradesmen.
And I have someone experenced to oversee and supervise it.

the question I have is to actually build the house and have it built so that its finished without furnishings what cost per sq Ft should I be budgeting?
(roof on, windows, walls plastered, etc inside)
Anyone any experence in this? advice would be great around the costs.
its a bungalow.

Many thanks

Sully

Moving to a more suitable forum

Yes Boss

There is no correct answer that can be given to your question without a detailed specification and drawings. In addition, you would need to clarify what your principle criterion is: Is it Cost or Quality as they don't always go hand-in-hand.

sydthebeat

what it cost is like asking how long is a piece of string.... it depend son what you want, bargin basement or bespoke...

the general rule of thumb is, the more planning you do before hand, the tighter and more accurate your budget will be.

planning may and should include construction drawings, full written specification and / or a bill of quantities.

Spending a few €k's on these will save you more €k's during the build and lead to a more streamlined smooth build than without.

With this planning you can make sure that cost and quality of materials and design go hand in hand.

Lowest quotes for services, while attractive, may not equate to high quality.

Always:
obtain at least 3 quotes for everything, in written form
ask for previous references and see previous work
ask for proof of insurances in documentary form

never:
pay up front for services, only after and inspected
assume changes will cost you nothing
agree to changes without them being documented and signed
agree to changes without written quotes being provided beforehand

martinn123

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

hey guys.
Im planning to start building a new house in the next couple of months.
I plan to do it by direct labour as I know loads of tradesmen.
And I have someone experenced to oversee and supervise it.

the question I have is to actually build the house and have it built so that its finished without furnishings what cost per sq Ft should I be budgeting?
(roof on, windows, walls plastered, etc inside)
Anyone any experence in this? advice would be great around the costs.
its a bungalow.

Many thanks

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

€100 per sq ft?thats seriously expensive? Im starting my own selfbuild in 2 months time. I have no experence in building of any kind, but know all the tradesmen. I am looking at €55 per sq ft.to get the house finishesd without any furnishings. I am looking at going to Thailand or China for all the furnishings. I imported furnishings from thailand for 6 years so I know the savings and costs involved.I plan to import 90% of the stuff except electrical or certin wooden items such as doors. Kitchens, showers, baths,sinks, marble tiles..massive savings. I will also blog the whole process daily with all details including costs etc. I'll post the blog here once I have it finalised. still got 2 weeks to wait for planning.

Pardon my confusion, but you have stated 100 Sqft is dear, and you are looking at 55 Sqft.I addition you are importing considerable amounts of materials, so it will be difficult to get a definative reply to the question posed.I am looking forward to reading your progress reports on the build, Good Luck with the project.One small appeal to all self builders reading this, as we are all aware the Economy is on its knees, can you please support local business and tradesman as much as possible. I respect everyones right to save money where they can, but if we are to get out of this mess, spending as much as possible in our own economy will help.

THEIRISHMOB

martinn123 wrote: »

Pardon my confusion, but you have stated 100 Sqft is dear, and you are looking at 55 Sqft.I addition you are importing considerable amounts of materials, so it will be difficult to get a definative reply to the question posed.I am looking forward to reading your progress reports on the build, Good Luck with the project.One small appeal to all self builders reading this, as we are all aware the Economy is on its knees, can you please support local business and tradesman as much as possible. I respect everyones right to save money where they can, but if we are to get out of this mess, spending as much as possible in our own economy will help.

I will employ the workers that will do the best work for the best price.
I will buy the goods that offer me the best value.
I have priced shower units in Ireland for €1200 where I can get them in China for €160, or granite work surfaces for the Kitchen in Ireland for €1500 but in China the same product for €180. would you support locally? (it all comes from China anyway.) And I know the margins as I sold it for years. buying a lamp for €2 and selling it for €25.
I recently got a guy out to quote for a wooden fence to go around a acre...only €12,000.
The whole reason this country is so F***ED is because of this rip-off attitude and builders looking for 200-300€ for a days work. Very sorry but I hate that attitude. I have a great friend (builderr) that does a real days work for €80. 9-5. so I wont be getting some jumped up clown and pay him €300 to do the same job.

Rant over.. I will also give details of the guys I use on the blog so others can get guys that do a days work for a days pay.

galwaytt

martinn123 wrote: »

Pardon my confusion, but you have stated 100 Sqft is dear, and you are looking at 55 Sqft.I addition you are importing considerable amounts of materials, so it will be difficult to get a definative reply to the question posed.I am looking forward to reading your progress reports on the build, Good Luck with the project.One small appeal to all self builders reading this, as we are all aware the Economy is on its knees, can you please support local business and tradesman as much as possible. I respect everyones right to save money where they can, but if we are to get out of this mess, spending as much as possible in our own economy will help.

Amen.

But it isn't even as simple as keeping locals in a job. The only thing OP mentioned importing in another thread is furnishings etc. That isn't in any build price from any contractor, so hardly relevant.

I price jobs day-in and day-out and €55 is not realistic for a quality building, built to proper spec's. You will always, always, get what you pay for.

galwaytt

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

I will employ the workers that will do the best work for the best price.
I will buy the goods that offer me the best value.
I have priced shower units in Ireland for €1200 where I can get them in China for €160, or granite work surfaces for the Kitchen in Ireland for €1500 but in China the same product for €180. would you support locally? (it all comes from China anyway.) And I know the margins as I sold it for years. buying a lamp for €2 and selling it for €25.
I recently got a guy out to quote for a wooden fence to go around a acre...only €12,000.
The whole reason this country is so F***ED is because of this rip-off attitude and builders looking for 200-300€ for a days work. Very sorry but I hate that attitude. I have a great friend (builderr) that does a real days work for €80. 9-5. so I wont be getting some jumped up clown and pay him €300 to do the same job.

Rant over.. I will also give details of the guys I use on the blog so others can get guys that do a days work for a days pay.

Well as an importer of raw materials myself, good luck with Chinese imports. There is a reason Chinese stuff is cheap.....

Interesting about the wages - fair pay, for comparision, means you should be paying a formal rate to someone giving you an invoice for it. Of, if on a wage, PRSI, levies and tax as well. If not, you're comparing Black market labour, to a proper rate for the job, and that's not a legit comparison. And I don't know anyone on 200-300/day, either btw. I assume these €80/day guy's you'll publish details of have ok'd you to put their names/nos/rates on public display, btw ...?

The reason this country may/may not be ****ed has nothing to do with the price of granite worktops or the prices kitchen fitters charge. It is to do with corruption at the highest level.

And if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

martinn123

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

I will employ the workers that will do the best work for the best price.

I will buy the goods that offer me the best value.

I have no problem with that

The whole reason this country is so F***ED is because of this rip-off attitude and builders looking for 200-300€ for a days work. Very sorry but I hate that attitude. I have a great friend (builderr) that does a real days work for €80. 9-5. so I wont be getting some jumped up clown and pay him €300 to do the same job.

Rant over.. I will also give details of the guys I use on the blog so others can get guys that do a days work for a days pay.

Doubt the guys you use will agree to that.

THEIRISHMOB

martinn123 wrote: »

I have no problem with thatDoubt the guys you use will agree to that.

good point.. maybe not

sydthebeat

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

I have a great friend (builderr) that does a real days work for €80. 9-5.

so you know a "builder" who is charging €400 for a weeks work, pre tax, insurances and costs???
Sounds more like an unqualified guy working on the black market to me.

creedp

sydthebeat wrote: »

so you know a "builder" who is charging €400 for a weeks work, pre tax, insurances and costs???
Sounds more like an unqualified guy working on the black market to me.

I think its fair to say that we would all like to get our building work done as economically as possibly and I think its also fair to say that building costs (excluding materials) have come down to more sustainable levels over the past couple of years. But the reality is that no builder will be able to work for €80 per day and cover cost of the equipment/insurance/tax/etc. That's nonsensical! Btw the minimum wage is now back to €8.76, so a minimum wage for an 8 hour day is now €70. So a self employed builder can survive with a €10 premium per day ........

Btw Q for OP - what line of work are you in? Would he think that €80 gross per day would represent a fair days pay for a good days work?

THEIRISHMOB

creedp wrote: »

I think its fair to say that we would all like to get our building work done as economically as possibly and I think its also fair to say that building costs (excluding materials) have come down to more sustainable levels over the past couple of years. But the reality is that no builder will be able to work for €80 per day and cover cost of the equipment/insurance/tax/etc. That's nonsensical! Btw the minimum wage is now back to €8.76, so a minimum wage for an 8 hour day is now €70. So a self employed builder can survive with a €10 premium per day ........

Btw Q for OP - what line of work are you in? Would he think that €80 gross per day would represent a fair days pay for a good days work?

All I can say is that I know 2 guys that come in and work 9-5 for €80 per day.
they recently took off 2 chimneys of our old house for €320 total, thats €160 each for 2 days work.

got two other quotes for €1200 and €900.
They did a perfect job, what more can I say.

We all want a good days wages but when you have NO work €80 will fill a trolley full of food for a week, so yes I'd be happy to take that if I was not working. the days of getting 200-300 a day are long gone.

If I had a family and was not working Id be very happy with 480 in my pocket that I would not have had if I was doing nothing.

DjBryn

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

All I can say is that I know 2 guys that come in and work 9-5 for €80 per day.
they recently took off 2 chimneys of our old house for €320 total, thats €160 each for 2 days work.

got two other quotes for €1200 and €900.
They did a perfect job, what more can I say.

We all want a good days wages but when you have NO work €80 will fill a trolley full of food for a week, so yes I'd be happy to take that if I was not working. the days of getting 200-300 a day are long gone.

If I had a family and was not working Id be very happy with 480 in my pocket that I would not have had if I was doing nothing.

they local or eastern?

THEIRISHMOB

DjBryn wrote: »

they local or eastern?

local.

martinn123

THEIRISHMOB wrote: »

All I can say is that I know 2 guys that come in and work 9-5 for €80 per day.
they recently took off 2 chimneys of our old house for €320 total, thats €160 each for 2 days work.

Presumably that included their insurance's, VAT and they did an income return to revenue..............sounds very cheap.......

If I had a family and was not working Id be very happy with 480 in my pocket that I would not have had if I was doing nothing.

actually using this example you would have 480, plus Welfare benefits, perhaps rent allowance, etc etc.

No wonder we are in the s**t.

THEIRISHMOB

martinn123 wrote: »

Presumably that included their insurance's, VAT and they did an income return to revenue..............sounds very cheap.......


No wonder we are in the s**t.

RETURNS TO REVENUE & VAT and that will pay off the banks €60,000,000,000
r u joking. if the people of Ireland had any sense they would not be paying a penny tax until the bond holders take a hit.

1chippy

As far as i, am aware a loaf of bread, taxes, insurance the whole lot ranges in or around the same for most people. grand you can say 80 a day is great value. if everyone keeps this up were not going to get bck to a normal standard of living. if people keep driving down trade prices were going to leave all trades fighting just to be the joke for suits to say that i have a builder who'll work for less than you.
when alls in, including taxes, prsi, insurance costs, diesel, tooling, tolls if applicable and the holiday pay that most other people seem to get are added in, there is no possible way that, that person can fund an anywhere near sustainable standard of living.
thats just my two cents, not trying to start an argument.

wirehairmax

I see the OP is in the business of golfing tourism. Perhaps the OP could organise a round of golf at Faithlegg, Mount Juliet or somewhere similar for all the tradespeople using the same logic he is applying in his posts. I would say a round of golf on a championship course should take approx 3-4 hours @ €8 per hour. €30 should cover it. Maybe throw in a steak dinner? Oh yeah, I would also need free hire of professional golf clubs and transport to and from the course. Sounds fair to me anyway if we want to get value for money. Because golf courses haven't been overpriced and ripping people off with their course fees and food and drink prices over the last 10 years have they?

muffler

Guys I appreciate that times are tight and we are all affected by the damned recession but there is a time and place for discussing the rate of pay etc.

The topic is "building new house advice" so can we all stick to that please.

Cheers.

muffler

wirehairmax wrote: »

I see the OP is in the business of golfing tourism. Perhaps the OP could organise a round of golf at Faithlegg, Mount Juliet or somewhere similar for all the tradespeople using the same logic he is applying in his posts. I would say a round of golf on a championship course should take approx 3-4 hours @ €8 per hour. €30 should cover it. Maybe throw in a steak dinner? Oh yeah, I would also need free hire of professional golf clubs and transport to and from the course. Sounds fair to me anyway if we want to get value for money. Because golf courses haven't been overpriced and ripping people off with their course fees and food and drink prices over the last 10 years have they?

Anyone and everyone is free to ask a question or look for advice here without having to put up with that trash.

Infraction given.

wirehairmax

Yet you allow this sort of trash?:

The whole reason this country is so F***ED is because of this rip-off attitude and builders looking for 200-300€ for a days work. Very sorry but I hate that attitude. I have a great friend (builderr) that does a real days work for €80. 9-5. so I wont be getting some jumped up clown and pay him €300 to do the same job.

And again?:

''RETURNS TO REVENUE & VAT and that will pay off the banks €60,000,000,000
r u joking. if the people of Ireland had any sense they would not be paying a penny tax until the bond holders take a hit.''

I believe this thread had degenerated into a pro black market thread long before I came aboard. The OP is clearly using people who are either working and signing or avoiding revenue by receiving cash in payment for services rendered and not declaring it.
Maybe I was a bit sarky in my reply but you have to see how the highlighted comments above would rise any self-employed person in this climate.

Poor Uncle Tom

An on-thread rant in spite of a warning earns you a two week ban.

For everyone else: When a mod puts a warning on a thread, if you don't heed it, you get banned.

Keep this thread on-topic or it will be locked.

THEIRISHMOB

Hi Uncle Tom.
I'll have my last say.
I have two guys that will do the exact same job.
One is €200 for the day, the other is €80. I should pay the guy that charges €200 so that he pays the goverment tax so that they give it to the banks to ......and it goes on and on and on.
the country is F***** and giving the goverment is not gonna solve it cause the same as the last 30yrs they will just waste it on something none of us want. The reason this economic mess happenned is 90% because of the building boom and overpaying for Land, labour, etc. If you cant see that then you are the PROBLEM.

you can close this tread as I think its a waste of time.

danbohan

sydthebeat wrote: »

so you know a "builder" who is charging €400 for a weeks work, pre tax, insurances and costs???
Sounds more like an unqualified guy working on the black market to me.

or a self empolyed guy who finds their is no work and cant get dole , 400 in your pocket better than 0 in your pocket , from some the posts here you would never think their is 150k+ builders unemployed , the days of 200-300 per day are over they never should have happened in first place .

THEIRISHMOB

danbohan wrote: »

or a self empolyed guy who finds their is no work and cant get dole , 400 in your pocket better than 0 in your pocket , from some the posts here you would never think their is 150k+ builders unemployed , the days of 200-300 per day are over they never should have happened in first place .

TOTALLY MY POINT.
He gets a weeks pay and I get a job done..both happy

Poor Uncle Tom

THEIRISHMOB & danbohan banned for ignoring on thread warning.

Thread locked.

muffler

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

THEIRISHMOB & danbohan banned for ignoring on thread warning.

Thread locked.

Fair play Poor Uncle Tom. You beat me to it.

Do people think we post up these warnings just for the fun of it? There are a couple of people who posted here and are now banned temporarily and unless they change their posting habits when they return then I dont see a future for them on this forum.