Budweiser Ice Cold Index

sean2011

BeerNut wrote: »

Not relevant to my point. In this promotion (I am told above), the €2 knocked off is absorbed entirely by Diageo. My point is just that Diageo can afford to knock this €2 off every pint, leaving the publicans' business untouched.

Ever worked in a pub or ordered a keg? If so you'll know roughly what they cost. With relatively basic maths you can work out that with 2 euro off the price of every pint times the number of pints the publican would actually get PAID for the keg. So no, this would not still be feasible. The publican's share of the profits are much larger than the brewing company.

BeerNut

Welcome to Boards.ie

I am assuming that the number of pints in the keg, and the amount the publican is paying for them, will remain at the same fixed rate. I bet the publicans involved in this campaign (assuming there are some) are too.

It doesn't matter if the publican's share is greater than the brewery's -- and I'd guarantee you that this figure varies wildly around the country, depending on each publican's overheads -- my point is still that Diageo are producing their beer for buttons and, theoretically, could charge buttons for it in turn.

Not that I'm saying that they should, of course. I mean, it's a free market and they should be charging whatever people are willing to pay. That's just basic business sense.

sean2011

Thank you.

Apologies, my point was not very well-made.
A standard keg is 50 litres, this translates to roughly 90 pints. If a brewing company were to refund a publican 2 euro per pint that would be a total rebate of 180 euro.

Which is more than the publican paid in the first place! I think its safe to say the brewer is not making money on that deal.

I am not a Budweiser drinker normally but this deal would make me consider buying one on a hot & sunny day. Any promo that can get new people to try your product is surely a good idea?

BeerNut

sean2011 wrote: »

Which is more than the publican paid in the first place!

How much is the publican paying in the first place, including duty and VAT?

sean2011

BeerNut wrote: »

How much is the publican paying in the first place, including duty and VAT?

http://www.partykegs.ie/beers.html

You can be sure this crowd is adding a pretty decent premium on top of what they are paying.

Blisterman

Is duty still paid on beer that's given away for free? I had a friend who worked for Wetherspoons in England, and apparently when you take duty out of the equation, they pay less than 20p a pint wholesale.

BeerNut

That's one dodgy looking site. It doesn't really seem to know which side of the border it's operating on and there's no direct ordering system, address or landline. I wouldn't trust them as a source for wholesale pricing.

These guys are €255 for a keg of Bud, these are €235. Plenty of wiggle room for €2 off there

BeerNut

Blisterman wrote: »

Is duty still paid on beer that's given away for free?

Yes: duty is due once the beer is finished. If a batch goes wrong and you want to dispose of it, you must have a Revenue officer physically present in the room while you do it.

sean2011

I don't know about the duty, but typicallyit is the brewery that pays the duty, not the publican. The publican pays the VAT but not the duty, I believe.

I could probably find a keg sales site for 250euro if I looked hard enough but that just means that the middleman is taking a larger cut. In the case we are speaking about the publican is the middleman so it is more relevant to talk about what price he pays.

It's especially generous to get money off of Budweiser- as it's one of the most process-intensive beers to make. Or am I the only one who reads the package!

BeerNut

sean2011 wrote: »

it's one of the most process-intensive beers to make. Or am I the only one who reads the package!

I think you might be the only one who believes the package

In other news, Guinness isn't alive inside, thanks to Monsieur Pasteur.

sean2011

Well in this case the package is accurate!

Don't tell me that's not true either- how disappointing! Well, at least it's still a great source of Iron...

Martyn1989

Where I work are participating, I havnt been in since Monday evening, but I don't think the offer has begun yet, as I understand it the pub is reimbursed in full.
Surely Diageo have no problem losing money for such a big marketing push like this, its not about getting people into pubs, but more to improve brand image and give it a major push and all that stuff.
I can see it being a massive pain tbh.
Im in tomorrow, Ill find out exactly what the story with it is

BeerNut

sean2011 wrote: »

Well in this case the package is accurate

It's really not.

sean2011

BeerNut wrote: »

It's really not.

Do elaborate...

Blisterman

I always wonder about these money off offers.

The end result is that when they finish, you end up just thinking it's overpriced, cause you're used to getting it cheap.

BeerNut

sean2011 wrote: »

Do elaborate...

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the line in question is "We know of no other beer produced by any other brewer which costs so much to brew and age."

Budweiser uses rice as a fermentable. Rice is a lot cheaper than malt, so any all-malt beer will have a dearer grain bill. Diageo have access to Irish malt over which, as its biggest buyer, they have a lot of price control. Most Irish breweries use imported malt, which costs more.

Budweiser is very lightly hopped, it may even use canned hop extract rather than the real thing, as other Diageo beers do. Either way, the cost per pint on hops is very small. Put it next to any hop-driven beer and you're looking at degrees of magnitude.

And then there's the sheer economy of scale: the amount of energy and water to create Bud is much less than any beer made in smaller batches.

As for aging, I'm told by someone who used to work at Francis's Abbey that Bud gets turned around in about a week. At the opposite end of the scale, Budvar in the Czech Republic sits in the lagering tanks for three months. Most breweries take a couple of weeks to turn a batch around, paying for the power in the cooling system all the while. Budweiser is barely aged at all, on a pile of beech sawdust, on the cheap.

The statement has to have been written by someone who isn't aware that any other company makes beer.

norrie rugger

BeerNut wrote: »

Yes: duty is due once the beer is finished. If a batch goes wrong and you want to dispose of it, you must have a Revenue officer physically present in the room while you do it.

Duty is due when the finished product is ready for sale. Kegged or bottled.
Beer ready for export is not

spartacus 109

anybody downloaded it on a blackberry yet? I cant seem to find the app on blackberry app world!

pa990

spartacus 109 wrote: »

anybody downloaded it on a blackberry yet? I cant seem to find the app on blackberry app world!

dunno about the b/berry , but its crap on android.. no pubs ever show on the map

i call Shenanigans

Niall_G

Technically, duty is due when the beer is released from a bonded warehouse for domestic consumption. Exceptions are exports and transfers between bonded warehouses under duty suspension.

In general, this means once it physically leaves the brewery/bonded warehouse,duty is due. Of course it may not be actually paid for a number of weeks because of the deferred payment (bond) scheme.

norrie rugger wrote: »

Duty is due when the finished product is ready for sale. Kegged or bottled.
Beer ready for export is not

Niall_G

Yes it is. Technically the pub should be paying VAT too, as a self-supply, although many seem blissfully ignorant of that....

Blisterman wrote: »

Is duty still paid on beer that's given away for free? I had a friend who worked for Wetherspoons in England, and apparently when you take duty out of the equation, they pay less than 20p a pint wholesale.

the beer revolu

Blisterman wrote: »

Is duty still paid on beer that's given away for free? I had a friend who worked for Wetherspoons in England, and apparently when you take duty out of the equation, they pay less than 20p a pint wholesale.

The brewery is will charge the publican duty+VAT as part of the wholesale price.
Of course the publican can claim the VAT back against any VAT payments owed by the pub.
I don't see how VAT could be paid of beer given away free - 21% of 0 = 0 , no?

What is interesting is that VAT is charged after the duty is added on so, in effect, you pay tax on the tax!

Niall_G

the beer revolu wrote: »

The brewery is will charge the publican duty+VAT as part of the wholesale price.
Of course the publican can claim the VAT back against any VAT payments owed by the pub.
I don't see how VAT could be paid of beer given away free - 21% of 0 = 0 , no?

What is interesting is that VAT is charged after the duty is added on so, in effect, you pay tax on the tax!

Any VAT for a self-supply is based on the cost price (as obviously there is no selling price). There is a €20 exemption though.

Yes VAT is always the final tax - this "double charge" applies to duty on fuel as well, and indeed to the Carbon Tax.

the beer revolu

Niall_G wrote: »

Any VAT for a self-supply is based on the cost price (as obviously there is no selling price). There is a €20 exemption though.

.

But hasn't the publican paid VAT on the cost price when he/she was charged by the brewery/supplier ?

sean2011

BeerNut wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the line in question is "We know of no other beer produced by any other brewer which costs so much to brew and age."

Budweiser uses rice as a fermentable. Rice is a lot cheaper than malt, so any all-malt beer will have a dearer grain bill. Diageo have access to Irish malt over which, as its biggest buyer, they have a lot of price control. Most Irish breweries use imported malt, which costs more.

Budweiser is very lightly hopped, it may even use canned hop extract rather than the real thing, as other Diageo beers do. Either way, the cost per pint on hops is very small. Put it next to any hop-driven beer and you're looking at degrees of magnitude.

And then there's the sheer economy of scale: the amount of energy and water to create Bud is much less than any beer made in smaller batches.

As for aging, I'm told by someone who used to work at Francis's Abbey that Bud gets turned around in about a week. At the opposite end of the scale, Budvar in the Czech Republic sits in the lagering tanks for three months. Most breweries take a couple of weeks to turn a batch around, paying for the power in the cooling system all the while. Budweiser is barely aged at all, on a pile of beech sawdust, on the cheap.

The statement has to have been written by someone who isn't aware that any other company makes beer.

Irish-made bud is made with continental rice, UK malt (from ABI-owned maltings), most products made in Ireland are with malt from the maltings in either Cork or Athy, Bud's light hop flavour is due to the timing of the hop addition and the variants rather than the quantity added, the bud process has energy-intensive unit operations that not a single other beer in the world has, is brewed in similar batch sizes to other popular beers (e.g. carlsberg / heineken) and it is unreasonable to compare the obvious economies of scale with local brands, it goes through a week long fermentation, three week secondary fermentation and a minimum of 1/2 a weeks maturation before being filtered and packaged. And again, using beechwood chips adds process complexity, capital and energy costs to the process.

joeKel73

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Registered yesterday too and free bonus pint only appeared today.




Apparently they haven't put the pub coordinates up on the map yet, but there seem to be plenty taking part (in Galway anyway).

Won't be using any of the €1 or €2 vouchers, it is Bud, but will prob take the freebies when they appear.

BeerNut

sean2011 wrote: »

Bud's light hop flavour is due to the timing of the hop addition

Yeah, that sort of non-argument only works on people who don't brew beer. If it was a big early addition there'd be bitterness; if it was a big late addition there'd be flavour. There is neither.

sean2011 wrote: »

it is unreasonable to compare the obvious economies of scale with local brands

When the statement being debated is unequivocal -- "no other beer" -- it is entirely reasonable.

the beer revolu

sean2011 wrote: »

Irish-made bud is made with continental rice, UK malt (from ABI-owned maltings), most products made in Ireland are with malt from the maltings in either Cork or Athy, Bud's light hop flavour is due to the timing of the hop addition and the variants rather than the quantity added, the bud process has energy-intensive unit operations that not a single other beer in the world has, is brewed in similar batch sizes to other popular beers (e.g. carlsberg / heineken) and it is unreasonable to compare the obvious economies of scale with local brands, it goes through a week long fermentation, three week secondary fermentation and a minimum of 1/2 a weeks maturation before being filtered and packaged. And again, using beechwood chips adds process complexity, capital and energy costs to the process.

Well it's great to know that Bud uses more energy than any other beer!
I wouldn't be advertising that fact.
If I had to drink tasteless yellow fizz, I think I'd go with Bavaria - far kinder to the environment and imo tastes better.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Chardee MacDennis

FFS why isnt there an easy list of pubs anywhere - completely pointless to have not had this from the start...