Fingal County Council- Where has all the money gone?

bcmf

AFAIK and I stand to be corrected here:
but Panda will be taking over ALL of the refuse collection in Fingal.
Watch the charges soar when that happens.
I know Fingal CC and the 'binmen' were having a meeting about this a few weeks back but didnt hear the outcome. But it was the workers who were opposing it as it seemed that FCC were pushing it through.

Eoineo

I will be extremely disappointed to see that happen. The quality of service I receive from Fingal County Council bin men can't be compared to Panda. From something as small as a wave to the toddler in the morning to physically moving my bin from the front doorstep to the truck & back when I'm unwell and not able to do it myself. They are such a reliable and good natured group, that makes me so sad.

shanered

I know this thread is asking where did all of Fingal's money go, but the issue is bigger, its where did all of Ireland's money go? Where is all our tax payer's money gone/going?

Martron

check out the latest live register numbers...... thats where.

wow sierra

Eoineo wrote: »

I will be extremely disappointed to see that happen. The quality of service I receive from Fingal County Council bin men can't be compared to Panda. From something as small as a wave to the toddler in the morning to physically moving my bin from the front doorstep to the truck & back when I'm unwell and not able to do it myself. They are such a reliable and good natured group, that makes me so sad.

I think that is the issue for a lot of people - Fingal Staff go a bit beyond the call of duty. During the snow they picked up bins where Private companies wouldn't bother. Also Fingal collect free from unemployed/old age pensioners etc. Private companies won't do that. Wages and conditions of employment would be better in Fingal than in the private companies, and maybe people don't care about that, but surely people should have a living wage and pride in their job. They are more inclined to care about the customer if they have.

It looks like the days of the Council collection are numbered anyway so we will all find out soon enough how wonderful the alternative is.

Jimdagym

I'm not knockg any of your points sierra, I'm just adding Panda also collected in the snow, and on Stephens day two christmases ago. And as I have previously said, they will take extra rubbish beside the bin.
Not knocking the fine fingal council binmen, I just wanted to add, for balance.

LeoB

wow sierra wrote: »

I think that is the issue for a lot of people - Fingal Staff go a bit beyond the call of duty. During the snow they picked up bins where Private companies wouldn't bother. Also Fingal collect free from unemployed/old age pensioners etc. Private companies won't do that. Wages and conditions of employment would be better in Fingal than in the private companies, and maybe people don't care about that, but surely people should have a living wage and pride in their job. They are more inclined to care about the customer if they have.

It looks like the days of the Council collection are numbered anyway so we will all find out soon enough how wonderful the alternative is.

Fair point and credit where its due.

So if Panda do get to take over fully from F.C.C I think their prices will go up substantially but will Fingal recieve money for each bin Panda pick up? Can Panda cherrypick where they will pick up bins? Like some of the proposed postal operators, No country lanes or lone pick ups in very rural areas?

shanered

We could all be millionaires with the money thrown at anglo and the banks....I wouldn't even blame the live register.

Corsendonk

Jimdagym wrote: »

I'm not knockg any of your points sierra, I'm just adding Panda also collected in the snow, and on Stephens day two christmases ago. And as I have previously said, they will take extra rubbish beside the bin.
Not knocking the fine fingal council binmen, I just wanted to add, for balance.

Not to forget before the days of FCC if you got a job as a bin man you were a made man in a kind of goodfellas way. You could finish the round before 11, get paid for a full day and have a nice little earner in the afternoon like window cleaning that would pay your pub money. Then you had the tax free Xmas tips. Another job that is no longer as good as it use to be for the employee.

golfwallah

Why are we surprised Fingal Co. Co. is running out of money – your money? While member golf clubs engage in a price war, Fingal County Council Public Golf Courses such as Corballis & Elm Green reported losses of €610,000 for 3 years up to 2010. But Council Officials say they are not losing money - these are just “subsidies”. Thank you Mr. Taxpayer!
The Council is also pumping capital funding into these loss makers, while private clubs are starved of finance from the banks. Quote from Fingal Co. Co. published budget for 2011:
"The Parks Division continues to maintain public Golf courses at Elm Green, Castleknock, Dublin 15, Corballis, Donabate, and Malahide Demesne. It is intended to transfer a further portion of membership fees in 2011 to capital from both Corballis and Elm Green in the sum of €140,000 to provide for the ongoing improvement of these courses.
A provision of €100,000 has also been made for transfer to capital in Budget 2011 to fund various outstanding capital balances".
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Publication...get%202011.pdf

Eoineo

Time I updated this thread relating to funding for community initiatives.

In the past number of weeks Fingal County Council have approved funding for a number of Integration Projects & Summer Projects for community groups in the County. Anecdotally the funding is slightly down on previous years but it is heartening to see that the Council is still prioritising supports for volunteer groups and their projects over the next number of months.

dsmythy

Does the council release to the public a breakdown of what they are spending money on?

EDIT: Found it

Corsendonk

I see that FCC is borrowing 6.5 million Euro's to finance its pet project in Malahide Castle were once the model exhibition was.

golfwallah

Government should cut their budget by at least 15% and require them to find the necessary savings without cutting essential services. Running golf courses is not an essential service and should be contracted out at no cost to the council. There are plenty of clubs around cutting one anothers throats to pick up this business from the council.

dsmythy

How does it cost €4 million a year for street cleaning?

Eoineo

Considering the size of the County the cost of €4 million doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Take any main street in a large town or village on a Sunday morning and there is a large amount of cleaning to be done on the one day alone. I'm also assuming street cleaning includes after big festivals such as The Rás.

golfwallah

Draft Budget 2011 is €249.0m - down a paltry 1.47% on the adopted budget for 2010. Are these guys really serious about finding savings at this time of crisis in Ireland’s history.
If Senior Management in the council can't do better than this, they are not doing their jobs properly and whoever appointed them should ask the top man to resign, unless he/she can do very much better in the current economic environment.
For example, the Recreation & Amenity Budget for 2011 is made up of expenditure €33.2m as against income of a mere €3.5m on the following activities:
Leisure Exp € 2.0m Inc. €0.6
Library & Archival Exp €12.0m Inc. €0.8
Outdoor Leisure Exp €13.0m Inc. €1.5
Community Sport & Rec Exp € 2.6m Inc. €0.4
Arts Programme Exp € 3.6m Inc. €0.1
Total Exp €33.2m Inc. €3.5

The net cost of just under €30.0m is just unacceptable.
With a bit of imagination the net cost of this budget could be cut significantly. Might be unpopular in some quarters, but if the current county manager can’t do it, his/her boss should get someone else who can.

Corsendonk

Eoineo wrote: »

Considering the size of the County the cost of €4 million doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Take any main street in a large town or village on a Sunday morning and there is a large amount of cleaning to be done on the one day alone. I'm also assuming street cleaning includes after big festivals such as The Rás.

Why a Sunday?

Eoineo

Corsendonk wrote: »

Why a Sunday?

After Saturday night's drinking. Walk around early on a Sunday morning and it can be really disgusting.

Eoineo

golfwallah wrote: »

Draft Budget 2011 is €249.0m - down a paltry 1.47% on the adopted budget for 2010. Are these guys really serious about finding savings at this time of crisis in Ireland’s history.
If Senior Management in the council can't do better than this, they are not doing their jobs properly and whoever appointed them should ask the top man to resign, unless he/she can do very much better in the current economic environment.
For example, the Recreation & Amenity Budget for 2011 is made up of expenditure €33.2m as against income of a mere €3.5m on the following activities:
Leisure Exp € 2.0m Inc. €0.6
Library & Archival Exp €12.0m Inc. €0.8
Outdoor Leisure Exp €13.0m Inc. €1.5
Community Sport & Rec Exp € 2.6m Inc. €0.4
Arts Programme Exp € 3.6m Inc. €0.1
Total Exp €33.2m Inc. €3.5

The net cost of just under €30.0m is just unacceptable.
With a bit of imagination the net cost of this budget could be cut significantly. Might be unpopular in some quarters, but if the current county manager can’t do it, his/her boss should get someone else who can.

The "green spaces" initiative has been quite unpopular in some areas and it was designed to cut costs. There is always going to be a radical difference between income and expenditure in a Council because it's a public service. As I understand it the income comes from other sources, the costs of the expenditure is raised from the Dept of Local Government. I don't know whether it's supplied to each Council based on a per capita payment or on their budgets as submitted for the year ahead.

Corsendonk

Eoineo wrote: »

After Saturday night's drinking. Walk around early on a Sunday morning and it can be really disgusting.

Why can't the council impose a charge on pubs/clubs off licences around these areas? They seem to me to be the cause of it by selling too much alcohol to customers, why shoud I and you pay for the pubs mess?

Reading the local papers alot of unsocial activity in Fingal seems to be connected to alcohol abuse, the council has to clean up the mess every weekend or close areas were drinkers are gathering. This all costs us money that could be spent on more important areas.

golfwallah

Eoineo wrote: »

The "green spaces" initiative has been quite unpopular in some areas and it was designed to cut costs. There is always going to be a radical difference between income and expenditure in a Council because it's a public service. As I understand it the income comes from other sources, the costs of the expenditure is raised from the Dept of Local Government. I don't know whether it's supplied to each Council based on a per capita payment or on their budgets as submitted for the year ahead.

All sounds like a bunch of excuses for inactivity to me.
What the taxpayers want are budget cost reductions.
Surely there is more than one cost reduction idea ("green spaces") coming out of the council? - that is just a reduction in service level.
The senior people in the council need to snap out of their comfort zones, get their thinking caps on and come up with more imaginative ideas for either raising more revenue or cutting costs.
They should be able to achieve their targets with about 15% less resources and without changing the world as we know it!
If not, move over an let others do it for them.

Eoineo

I'm not giving any excuses. I don't work for the Council, nor am I a Councillor. I'm only trying to explain the facts as I understand them.

Were there budget cost reductions based on a per capita amount? How is the funding allocated to each Council? I've not got a clue.

Corsendonk

golfwallah wrote: »

Draft Budget 2011 is €249.0m - down a paltry 1.47% on the adopted budget for 2010. Are these guys really serious about finding savings at this time of crisis in Ireland’s history.
If Senior Management in the council can't do better than this, they are not doing their jobs properly and whoever appointed them should ask the top man to resign, unless he/she can do very much better in the current economic environment.
For example, the Recreation & Amenity Budget for 2011 is made up of expenditure €33.2m as against income of a mere €3.5m on the following activities:
Leisure Exp € 2.0m Inc. €0.6
Library & Archival Exp €12.0m Inc. €0.8
Outdoor Leisure Exp €13.0m Inc. €1.5
Community Sport & Rec Exp € 2.6m Inc. €0.4
Arts Programme Exp € 3.6m Inc. €0.1
Total Exp €33.2m Inc. €3.5

The net cost of just under €30.0m is just unacceptable.
With a bit of imagination the net cost of this budget could be cut significantly. Might be unpopular in some quarters, but if the current county manager can’t do it, his/her boss should get someone else who can.

They would have to tackle the unions, cllrs and TDs first. Hidden within the budget figures I imagine is quiet abit of horsetrading between council management and Cllrs. Most of this horsetrading may make little economic sense but it may help to ensure re-election for the Cllrs in the next local election and the management does need cllrs to pass the budget.

Then the constituency election system is flawed in such a way that local TDs lobby Council Management. We as voters encourage them to do so, why bother complaining to your cllr, jump straight to the top and complain to a TD and the TD is more than happy to help because he views the Cllrs as potential competition for his seat at the next election.

Last but not least the post above about the 3 guys painting the house, in the normal world the driver would be one of the 2 painters but in the public sector he is a dedicated driver and trying to get him to be both would get the unions on the warpath.

golfwallah

Corsendonk wrote: »

They would have to tackle the unions, cllrs and TDs first. Hidden within the budget figures I imagine is quiet abit of horsetrading between council management and Cllrs. Most of this horsetrading may make little economic sense but it may help to ensure re-election for the Cllrs in the next local election and the management does need cllrs to pass the budget.

Then the constituency election system is flawed in such a way that local TDs lobby Council Management. We as voters encourage them to do so, why bother complaining to your cllr, jump straight to the top and complain to a TD and the TD is more than happy to help because he views the Cllrs as potential competition for his seat at the next election.

Last but not least the post above about the 3 guys painting the house, in the normal world the driver would be one of the 2 painters but in the public sector he is a dedicated driver and trying to get him to be both would get the unions on the warpath.

Of course they would have to deal with the unions ..... that's the job of management ...... not producing excuses for inaction. The Croke Park Agreement has paved the way towards higher productivity and cost reduction but these things do not happen by themselves, nor is it the job of the unions to do it .... it takes determined management.
Using the unions as an excuse for not tackling difficult issues is just that ...... an excuse.
It's about time senior management in the council made a start (and a 1.47% reduction in their budget is hardly much of a start). This is just one example of the issues that private businesses have always had to tackle quickly .... they can't turn to the taxpayer for subsidies. The Public Sector now has to do the same or we'll end up like Greece.

Corsendonk

golfwallah wrote: »

Of course they would have to deal with the unions ..... that's the job of management ...... not producing excuses for inaction. The Croke Park Agreement has paved the way towards higher productivity and cost reduction but these things do not happen by themselves, nor is it the job of the unions to do it .... it takes determined management.
Using the unions as an excuse for not tackling difficult issues is just that ...... an excuse.
It's about time senior management in the council made a start (and a 1.47% reduction in their budget is hardly much of a start). This is just one example of the issues that private businesses have always had to tackle quickly .... they can't turn to the taxpayer for subsidies. The Public Sector now has to do the same or we'll end up like Greece.

Very broad statement that, did we lie to the EU about are economic figures like Greece? Do 1 in 4 Irish not pay any taxes like Greek people? Can you retire at 60 like Greece?

golfwallah

Corsendonk wrote: »

Very broad statement that, did we lie to the EU about are economic figures like Greece? Do 1 in 4 Irish not pay any taxes like Greek people? Can you retire at 60 like Greece?

Don't disagree but how we get out of the financial mess is more important than how we (or Greece) got into it.
Can't do much about the past only the present and the future.
Everyone has a part to play. Private businesses are doing their bit. County Councils have to do the same .... and make a start soon .... otherwise nothing will change.

LeoB

I dont buy the blaming union stuff at all.

As a member of a union by choice more and more power is being taken from unions every year such are the rights workers are afforded by E.U laws. I am not saying wheter thats good or bad but I think a big problem for County councils around the country is the amount of admin staff and middle managment they have and there serious lack of planning for jobs which under way before they realise it. Despite the degrees some of these managers have they are totally incompetent.

golfwallah

Leo has prompted me into reading the approved 2011 budget on Fingal Co. Co. site:
"In the summer of 2010 the Croke Park Agreement was entered into between Public Sector Employers and Trade Unions. In accordance with the Agreement, Fingal County Council has produced a local action plan of cost savings and efficiency measures. The measures contained in the plan are being discussed with the Unions representing our staff and will be implemented throughout 2011.

The broadening of the tax base indicated in the recently published National Recovery Plan 2011 – 2014 with the proposed introduction of a property tax and a domestic water charge is an important development in the reform of Local Government financing and is to be welcomed".

Good to see that discussions with the unions and implementation of measures are contained in the plan.
I'd be more concerned with the proposed introduction of property tax and water charges. To keep these charges as low as possible, the council needs to reduce spending on "nice to have stuff", like funding loss making golf courses, etc.
As the county manager, Mr. O'Connor's line of command is directly to the council (looks like the full council chamber of 24 or so councillors are his boss), I think I'll have to write to my local councillors!

LeoB

Fingal C.C have a lot to do and quite a few areas to tackle to either save money or just plain cutbacks, how long is a piece of string?

Make no mistake about it, water charges will be here pretty soon and some sort of property tax also. I firmly believe workers rights will be further eroded in the coming 24 - 36 months not all fairly but the state of the economey will be the reason given. Good to see discussionswith unions are taking place really means "we will discuss it with unions but we will do what we want" This is a general feeling among workers who I have spoken to over the last few months.

The golf course are expensive but they were constructed for people who could not afford to join the overpriced private clubs. Maybe some sort green fee on top of whatever fee is payable annually. Its an important facility for and I dont have a problem with Fingal maintaining these course. Look at the kids out all wanting to be the new Rory McIllroy

The bottom line is we are all going to be dipping ino our pocketsand while I await my first water bill I am worried about what else they can squeeze out of us.