Fingal County Council- Where has all the money gone?

dsmythy

Well the vulnerable who use the libraries have good news in the shape of funding from water rates. But of course people don't want that either.

Corsendonk

dsmythy wrote: »

Well the vulnerable who use the llibraries have good news in the shape of funding from water rates. But of course people don't want that either.

Well lets wait and see how far the water charges are ring fenced.

Atlantic Dawn

golfwallah wrote: »

No of visits 1,020,398 Cost per visit €11.57

I'm speechless at the per visit cost.

Eoineo

golfwallah wrote: »

The following figures come from Fingal County Council's website:
2011 Budget for Library Services:

Costs €11,803,300
No of Library Members 128,082 Cost per member €92.15
No of visits 1,020,398 Cost per visit €11.57
No of items borrowed 1,207,487 Cost per item borrowed €9.78

How exactly did you find this interpretation of the costs? Because I'm going through their budget for the year and find the following figures:

Operation of the Library Service: €6,215,600
Archive Service: €162,100
Purchase of Books, CD's etc: €852,400
Contributions to Library Organisations: €50,400
Service Support Costs: €4,675,700

golfwallah

Fingal Co. Co. Budget 2011:

Page 52 for stats:
"At present there are 128,082 registered library members in Fingal. A total of 1,020,398 visits were made to Fingal Libraries and 1,207,487 items were borrowed in 2010. The range of materials offered includes books, music ....."

Page 56 - Table F Expenditure:
F02Op Operation of Library and Archival Service, €11,976,100

Page 58 - Table F Income:
Library Fees/Fines €172,800

The costings are based on dividing the net costs by the usage statistics.

dsmythy

Eoineo wrote: »

How exactly did you find this interpretation of the costs? Because I'm going through their budget for the year and find the following figures:

Operation of the Library Service: €6,215,600
Archive Service: €162,100
Purchase of Books, CD's etc: €852,400
Contributions to Library Organisations: €50,400
Service Support Costs: €4,675,700

This would be interesting to look at.

Corsendonk

How do they generate the usage figures? Is that everytime you borrow a book? I know 50% of my visits I fail to rent a book but I do browse and sit down and read as many other people do.

Corsendonk

golfwallah wrote: »

Minister Brendan Howlin's project asking the public to identify areas for cost savings: http://per.gov.ie/comprehensive-review-of-expenditure/

I recommend you email this fellow too especially as he has a distinct advantage of knowing the workings of FCC accounts since he voted for the budgets since 2006 so perhaps he can explain the library service and golf courses expenditure in greater detail to you.

http://alanfarrell.blogspot.com/2011/06/farrell-nominated-to-chair-fine-gael.html

On Thursday evening last, I was honoured to be appointed by An Taoiseach, Enda Kenny TD as Chairperson of the Fine Gael Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform in the Dáil.

This committee will shadow the work of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform under Minister Howlin & Hayes.

I very much look forward to the many challenges this appointment will present over the coming months and years

Corsendonk

More funding for Fingal Libraries so obviously the high cost of each visit is not a problem or the government wouldn't be throwing more money at a failing system, would they?


http://alanfarrell.blogspot.com

Fingal receive government grant for mobile library services



Grant for mobile library service announced by Minister Hogan


Fine Gael TD for Dublin North Alan Farrell welcomes the announcement by Minister Phil Hogan that a significant investment will be made for mobile library services in Fingal in North County Dublin.



"The Minister has today announced a €5.8 million new Library Programme for libraries around the country, and I am delighted to learn that €190,000 will be invested in a mobile library facility within the Fingal area."

"This is the first time in two years that Fingal have been included in the Capital Programme for Public Libraries. This project will yield huge benefits in terms of personal and community development for people of all ages and backgrounds.

"The ongoing provision of a free library service is a particular importance to me, having officially reopened public libraries in both Malahide and Garristown after extensive works during my term as Mayor of Fingal.

"Libraries contain a wide variety of training facilities, specifically ICT and language training. These are particularly beneficial for people in the jobs market. The availability of internet access and wifi are also very useful tools for library users.

"I am pleased to note the substantial increase in library users in the past number of years, with upwards of 16 million visits in 2010. I expect this will boost library usage further within the Fingal community and would hope that all residents will be made

The Hill Billy

I've deleted a number of the posts from this thread as it was descending into tit-for-tat argument that was taking the thread off-topic as regards facts about FCC wasting money.

tHB

Corsendonk

Just for anyone that might be meeting local representatives you might want to ask them did they pay money to the council to use the below for anything related to their party. Quite a few images have popped up on their websites and party literature or supplied to the press for interview pics.

Irish Independent

By Fiach Kelly Political Correspondent

Tuesday October 26 2010

YOU'VE heard of champagne socialists

now meet the chandelier socialists.
Socialist Party councillors have defended posing for photos in a lavish drawing room of one of the country's finest stately homes -- but said they had no idea it cost the taxpayer almost €10,000.
Three socialist party councillors were part of a Fingal County Council photoshoot in Newbridge House in Dublin last year.
The shots were taken in the 'Red Room' -- decked out with period paintings and chandeliers -- of the Georgian mansion, built in 1736, and all 24 Fingal councillors took part.
A professional photographer hired for the day took shots of the entire council, councillors in each electoral ward and each political party on the council.
The photoshoot took place last July, following the local elections in June, and Fingal County Council then stuck the pictures up in nine libraries, as well as the county hall in Swords and civic offices in Blanchardstown.
The total cost of taking the pictures, and putting 32 framed shots up in the 11 buildings, came to €9,471.
The group shot of all 24 councillors was put up in each building, as well as a shot of the councillors from the electoral ward the building is situated in.
Three councillors from the Socialist Party -- Clare Daly, Matthew Waine and Ruth Coppinger -- were happy to take part, and Ms Daly last night defended the photos. However, she said she had no idea of the cost, which she admitted was "a whack-load of money".
She also said the use of the stately home had been justified.
Ironic
"It is a public building, it is a historic building owned by the people," Ms Daly said when asked if it was ironic for socialists to be photographed in the mansion.
"I had no idea of the cost of it. I did query at the time why we were up there and where the photographer who usually took photos for the council was."
She said it was normal practice for a new photo to be taken after elections, and said the shots would be used in council material in future. "On what basis would you refuse to partake in that?"
A Dublin-based photographer, Larry McMahon, was commissioned to take the pictures and the councillors were given the option of buying the pictures for their own personal use.
The council said the Red Room in Newbridge was chosen because it was the "jewel in the crown" of the county's buildings.
"The Red Room is one of the very few original and authentic Georgian drawing rooms in Ireland," the council said.
"The decision to prominently display the photographs in our public libraries and offices is on the basis of promoting local democracy and information to as wide a range of members of the public as possible."

LeoB

Libraries are are only one area where Fingal can either save or waste money.

The donation scheme would be good and could save a substantial amount of money which could be put to use in other areas. There is also huge scope to look at how we run the Library service. Closing at lunch time is very silly in this day and age, just like where I work I hasten to add. There needs to be some flexability in public service.

I think the Library in Rush is great and the staff are providing a top class service but it could be expanded to generate more income like hiring of space for exhibitions snf rooms for meetings, even a nominal fee of €3 for a room for a meeting

On the issue of money I would not class any investment in Libraries as a waste of money, its probably the best money Fingal could spend. With hindsight the money was wasted all over the place from sporting fingal (the idea was good) to things like shoddy speed ranps.

The question is how can we public play a role in helping drag Fingal out the current state it finds itself in

Corsendonk

LeoB wrote: »

The question is how can we public play a role in helping drag Fingal out the current state it finds itself in

Less Nimbys? I know we should have a right to protest and all the required studies carried out but at the end of the day we do need these projects and dragging them out increases costs.

I would love to see the cost comparsion between developing civil projects in Ireland versus the rest of the EU.

On just two projects €22.6 million was spent on consultants.

Irish Times August 5th 2011

Sewage plant site still not chosen despite €17m fees


CONSULTANTS HAVE been paid almost €17 million in relation to the development of a new Dublin regional sewage treatment plant, even though a site has yet to be selected for the facility.

A study published six years ago identified Portrane in north Dublin as the best site for the new plant which would be second in size only to the Ringsend sewerage works. However, Fingal councillors rejected the plan and ordered a review of the study.

The Greater Dublin Strategic Drainage Study was commissioned by Fingal on behalf of the four Dublin local authorities from the Dublin Drainage Consultancy, a consortium involving Hyder Consulting, and Dublin-based firms PH McCarthy Partners and RPS-MCOS. The published cost of the study in 2005 was €10 million. However, new figures released by Fingal now set its cost at €14.9 million.

The review of the study recommended the plant still be located in the “northern greater Dublin area”, but not necessarily Portrane. However, it did not rule out Portrane.

Fingal has now appointed Jacobs Engineering and Tobin Consulting Engineers to identify a possible site for the new sewage works on a 24-month contract costing €1.5 million. A further €360,000 is being paid to RPS Consultants to provide communications and public relations services to the project.

A group of north Dublin residents who started the Fairshare campaign group in 2005 to oppose the facility said the spending on consultants’ fees was a waste of public money.

“The local authorities on the east coast have spent €17 million and six years and are still no nearer to finding a site for a new regional sewage plant. The only people gaining here appear to be consultants working for the local authorities,” Fairshare spokesman David Moore said.

A spokeswoman for the council said the cost of the investment in the infrastructure, which is the largest drainage project currently being planned in the country, is likely to be in the hundreds of millions of euro and studies were required to be carried out in order to make “an informed and correct decision” before any locations are chosen.

A shortlist of sites would be published in the coming months, she said, which would be followed by extensive public consultation.

It would be next year before a preferred site for the infrastructure was identified and a planning application made to An Bord Pleanála.

Beaches in north Dublin have repeatedly failed EU water tests since the rejection by councillors of the Portrane plant. Last year Burrow beach in Sutton was one of four beaches nationally to fail minimum water cleanliness tests. Traces of human or animal waste were also found at Balbriggan front strand and Loughshinny, also in Fingal.

Fingal county manager David O’Connor has said the new plant was essential to future employment, social progress and economic growth in the region.

However, the choice of any site in Fingal is likely to be met with strenuous opposition.

Sunday Tribune 14th June 2009

Council has spent €32m on controversial super dump



FINGAL county council has spent a staggering €32m on a planned super dump in north Dublin, a final decision on which is due later this month.

Both An Bord Pleanála and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are set to rule on the controversial landfill after nearly five years of deliberations and five oral hearings.

The contentious 500,000-tonne capacity Nevitt landfill facility in Lusk was even the subject of a complaint to the European Commission last year.

To date, the local authority has spent just over €26m on land acquisition to accommodate the development.

Other cost outlays by the council include €1.45m on a site-selection study and €5.6m on consultants, site investigation, legal fees and borehole compensation.

"The council has thrown money at this since September 2004 when it was announced. They say they can justify the spending but it is a massive waste of public money," said a spokesman for the Nevitt Lusk Action Group (NLAG).

"There are a lot of very contentious issues around this. There is a water supply here called the Bog of the Ring and we have got evidence that this is linked to the area where the landfill is going. The horticulture industry is worth €600m a year to the economy and this will be wiped out if [the dump] goes ahead."

Fingal county council says that the level of expenditure on a programme of this magnitude is not at all unusual, nor is its timing ahead of a ruling by the planning appeals authority.

In relation to claims of water contamination, a spokeswoman said: "It's up to the [EPA] to decide whether the risk is significant enough not to allow the landfill to go ahead."

But she added that the amount of water in question is not significant in the overall context of water in the region.

The landfill is part of the overall Dublin waste-management plan, together with the Ringsend incinerator, composting sites and recycling facilities.

golfwallah

Looks like Fingal Co Co are off the hook as far as Brendan Howlin's cost savings are concerned: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/once-again-public-sector-is-off-the-hook-2940070.html.

Once again the taxpayer will end up with new Local Charges because of Fingal Co Co unwillingness to trim budgets.

Why can't Fingal Co Co target nice to have stuff like unnecessary subsidies to their inefficient Council Golf Courses??

Maybe it's because local authority employees can avail of reduced charges in these places!

I live in hope that our Local Councillors will start representing us as hard pressed taxpayers when the Fingal Co Co Budget for 2012 is put to them for approval.

golfwallah

http://www.thejournal.ie/household-charge-legislation-to-be-pushed-through-ahead-of-budget-290662-Nov2011/

The Hill Billy

Please keep this relevant to DCN. If you wish to quote articles referring to issues at a national level - at least offer your opinions/thoughts as to how this may impact at a local level.

Thanks,

tHB

golfwallah

golfwallah wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/household-charge-legislation-to-be-pushed-through-ahead-of-budget-290662-Nov2011/

I would have thought that enabling leglislation for imposition of Local Charges by all councils was very relevant to Fingal Co. Co. residents.

Bills for Local Charges will be very relevant when they start popping through peoples' mailboxes early next year.

Other than going up for election yourself, the next best way to try keeping your bills as low as possible is to lobby your local County Councillors - to demand cuts in unnecessary spending.

Their opportunity will come shortly when they are asked to vote of the 2012 budget proposed by the County Manager (usually in December).

For example, Fingal Co Co are subsidizing their own Golf Courses when the county is awash with too many golf courses. They are also spending huge amounts on libraries when, with a bit of imagination and courage, just as good a service could be provided for far less cost.

These are just two examples of "accepted" spending that is a lot higher than it should be ..... I'm sure other people could point to more.

The Hill Billy

There are a lot of decisions taken & enacted at a national level that affect us at a local level here in DCN. Unless you are willing to give your opinions as to why they need to be discussed here - they are considered a 'national issue' & therefore may be moved from DCN.

If you require further clarification - PM me rather than taking this thread off-topic.

tHB

Cardinal Richelieu

Draft 2012 FCC Budget, due to be signed off next week by our Cllrs. It's a bit of a long winded read if numbers with columns ain't your thing but the summary of each section does offer nuggets of info. Two I spotted were

Fingal Local Studies and Archives will continue to develop and expand in 2012. Work will commence on the production of the 2012 edition of the local history journal Fingal Studies and Fingal Sporting Heroes will shortly go to print.

Could be a good stocking filler for 2012 Xmas. I wonder do Beasty or LeoB get a mention?:D

And for anyone interested in genealogy or has relatives abroad that are interested in it.

The burial records of over 20 Fingal Burial grounds have been digitised and in liaison with the Environment Department it is proposed to develop a digital searchable database of all burials in Fingal. It is the intention to link this with a heritage project, to record graveyard memorials and to develop the tourism potential of this growing genealogy.

gerryo777

Corsendonk wrote: »

Just looking around Fingal I can't help noticing the number of FCC projects that seem to have stalled or shelved, the sports stadium in Lusk, the conversion of Martins shop in Rush etc. I am sure other posters have examples in their immediate area to add. What I want to know is where has all the money earmarked for these projects gone?

I know we are in a major recession but we still have local shopkeepers complaining about rate increases and surely FCC gained substantial income from housing and commercial developments over the recent years.

I am just an ordinary Joe Soap so surely someone on Boards is a trained accountant or embezzler that can tell me were the money went. Or was the Council vastly over optimistic with its planning in the heady days of the Celtic Tiger?

As I said on another thread, this is the council who spent €450,000 on a house in the country to house a settled 'traveller' family from Skerries. Thing is the family in question had lived in a council house in Skerries for about 30 years....

LeoB

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Draft 2012 FCC Budget, due to be signed off next week by our Cllrs. It's a bit of a long winded read if numbers with columns ain't your thing but the summary of each section does offer nuggets of info. Two I spotted were

Could be a good stocking filler for 2012 Xmas. I wonder do Beasty or LeoB get a mention?:D

And for anyone interested in genealogy or has relatives abroad that are interested in it.

Beasty on one cover and I am on the other!! Or is that a rag mag we are in beasty?
Good to see some investment in local things like this.

gerryo777 wrote: »

As I said on another thread, this is the council who spent €450,000 on a house in the country to house a settled 'traveller' family from Skerries. Thing is the family in question had lived in a council house in Skerries for about 30 years....

Word was they had come from Dublin?

My main gripe with Fingal is the state that some roads have been left in and footpaths. I have requested on many occasions that a total of 6 street lights be put on park rd and Palmer Rd in Rush to make Aras Naomh Maurs accessible to the whole community not just the people with cars. As it is over 1,000 children recieve free coaching through various programmes St. Maurs run but the children cant walk to the club such is the state of the roads. This not a major project but the benefit to the community would be enormous. Funny thing is they gave a grant back in 1982 to build the club but cant see the benefits of making it more accessible.

We have seen what can be done with the work done on the path from Rush to railway station by just cleaning back the bild up of dirt from the roads. The path must be over 1 foot wider as a result. This did not cost a lot as it was very basic housekeeping and people got the benefit of a decent walk and saw something being done for their community.

I dont know if this budget is final but looking at the way things are going dont be suprized to see this being cut a little more.

Maybe I will start another thread The positive work done by Fingal C.C.

Cardinal Richelieu

My main gripe with Fingal is the state that some roads have been left in and footpaths. I have requested on many occasions that a total of 6 street lights be put on park rd and Palmer Rd in Rush to make Aras Naomh Maurs accessible to the whole community not just the people with cars. As it is over 1,000 children recieve free coaching through various programmes St. Maurs run but the children cant walk to the club such is the state of the roads. This not a major project but the benefit to the community would be enormous. Funny thing is they gave a grant back in 1982 to build the club but cant see the benefits of making it more accessible.

I would say they haven't done anything with that part of town because they were holding off until they built all those houses and retail units they planned in the below publication.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/LocalAreaPlans/RushKenureLAP/publications,22261,en.pdf

I notice in the draft budget they have "Rush Vision" included among the LAP studies, so expect a rewritten version of the above publication.

gerryo777

LeoB wrote: »

Beasty on one cover and I am on the other!! Or is that a rag mag we are in beasty?
Good to see some investment in local things like this.


Word was they had come from Dublin?

My main gripe with Fingal is the state that some roads have been left in and footpaths. I have requested on many occasions that a total of 6 street lights be put on park rd and Palmer Rd in Rush to make Aras Naomh Maurs accessible to the whole community not just the people with cars. As it is over 1,000 children recieve free coaching through various programmes St. Maurs run but the children cant walk to the club such is the state of the roads. This not a major project but the benefit to the community would be enormous. Funny thing is they gave a grant back in 1982 to build the club but cant see the benefits of making it more accessible.

We have seen what can be done with the work done on the path from Rush to railway station by just cleaning back the bild up of dirt from the roads. The path must be over 1 foot wider as a result. This did not cost a lot as it was very basic housekeeping and people got the benefit of a decent walk and saw something being done for their community.

I dont know if this budget is final but looking at the way things are going dont be suprized to see this being cut a little more.

Maybe I will start another thread The positive work done by Fingal C.C.

Defo from Skerries, I know the family in question..

LeoB

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I would say they haven't done anything with that part of town because they were holding off until they built all those houses and retail units they planned in the below publication.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/LocalAreaPlans/RushKenureLAP/publications,22261,en.pdf

I notice in the draft budget they have "Rush Vision" included among the LAP studies, so expect a rewritten version of the above publication.

Rush vision, wow would love to get inside the mind of the person who came up with that. I think there is a great future in Rush. Great buzz about the place thanks to Tidy Towns Chamber of commerse and community council and various clubs getting stuck in. N.C.D in general has a lot going for it with its natural enviroment and some very talented people.

I find it hard to see where everything has gone and wonder how did they priortise things? How was there not more governance? What is or was the role of a compliance officer if they have one? Do they cost benefit analysis on the value to the community or just in monetary tearms?

gerryo777 wrote: »

Defo from Skerries, I know the family in question..

Dont doubt you for a moment just heard a lot of talk about "the Dublin family" moving to the middle of the country. Might just have been scare tactics.

Cardinal Richelieu

LeoB wrote: »

The donation scheme would be good and could save a substantial amount of money which could be put to use in other areas.

The donation of books by members of the public to Fingals Library Service was mentioned at todays FCC budget meeting. The council management confirmed that they do accept book donations as long as they are "shelf ready".

Chinafoot

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

The donation of books by members of the public to Fingals Library Service was mentioned at todays FCC budget meeting. The council management confirmed that they do accept book donations as long as they are "shelf ready".

Which very, very often they aren't and if they are, we usually already have them in stock. And I'm sorry guys but it would not be possible to run a viable library service with the number of branches we have, including the largest public library in the country, on public donations alone.

The book fund is ~10% of the overall library budget. Cutbacks should be made to the other 90% as the stock we carry is crucial to the service in my personal opinion.

Cardinal Richelieu

Chinafoot wrote: »

Which very, very often they aren't and if they are, we usually already have them in stock. And I'm sorry guys but it would not be possible to run a viable library service with the number of branches we have, including the largest public library in the country, on public donations alone.

The book fund is ~10% of the overall library budget. Cutbacks should be made to the other 90% as the stock we carry is crucial to the service in my personal opinion.

I don't think we were talking about running a service on donations alone as your post seems to allude to but using donations to suppliment the book buying programme and buffer any reduction in the book buying budget during this difficult recession time. Every little helps as they say.

I accept you will have people running to the local library with their late granny moth eaten Mills and Boon collection rather than bin it and numerous copies of the latest holiday pulp reads turning up but as Ireland is the secondest largest reading population per head in the world the variation might be wider than you think, once the scheme is given publicity. Think positively, even if the service gain an extra 3% of that years buying budget in stock, thats a 3% improvement to the service at very little cost to Fingals Citizens.

Eoineo

Fingal Libraries have always accepted books in good condition have they not. I've donated to them on a number of occasions.

Chinafoot

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I don't think we were talking about running a service on donations alone as your post seems to allude to but using donations to suppliment the book buying programme and buffer any reduction in the book buying budget during this difficult recession time. Every little helps as they say.

This issue has been discussed on this thread already and yes people did suggest that the book fund was too high and we should focus on donations. This is completely impractical. The fact that the libraries operated on a budget of ~€8m this year with ~€4m going to "outside support services" is, for me personally, something that should be seriously looked at before reducing the bookfund again.

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

I accept you will have people running to the local library with their late granny moth eaten Mills and Boon collection rather than bin it and numerous copies of the latest holiday pulp reads turning up but as Ireland is the secondest largest reading population per head in the world the variation might be wider than you think, once the scheme is given publicity. Think positively, even if the service gain an extra 3% of that years buying budget in stock, thats a 3% improvement to the service at very little cost to Fingals Citizens.

Fingal have always accepted donations and what we are given are mostly things we already have in stock, bestselling paperbacks being the most obvious. Now given that it is important for the libraries to have up-to-date stock, what exactly do you suggest the acquisitions department do? Do they sit on their hands hoping that certain items will be donated? Do they go ahead and buy them anyway? There is no way to anticipate what will be donated and, again, the stock is critical to the service.

Nobody in the service is against donations at all but what you have to understand is that we can see our bookfund decrease every year while the overall budget is relatively high. This is something that makes little sense to us. The stock is and should remain the focus and considering it is 10% of the overall cost of running the service it is disheartening to see it being focused on by people looking for cuts.

So you can tell me to "think positively" but I can tell you that as someone who actually works in the service you are talking about, it is not as simple as you are making it out to be.

Eoineo wrote: »

Fingal Libraries have always accepted books in good condition have they not. I've donated to them on a number of occasions.

Correct. Certain branches at certain times may not be able to accept donations due to space restrictions but in general the libraries will take them once they're in good nick.

Cardinal Richelieu

Chinafoot wrote: »

This issue has been discussed on this thread already and yes people did suggest that the book fund was too high and we should focus on donations. This is completely impractical. The fact that the libraries operated on a budget of ~€8m this year with ~€4m going to "outside support services" is, for me personally, something that should be seriously looked at before reducing the bookfund again.

What is captured under "outside support services"?