Crumlin Shopping Centre

L1011

Dunnes wanted to make Tesco leave due to lack of trade. That's why they ran it in to the ground.

As goes leaving the southern bit of the structure - that was the plan but Dunnes have since taken over the Molloys there which is the unit at the end and the entire top floor. That would suggest they're intending to get rid of it too.

SPDUB

L1011 wrote: »

Dunnes wanted to make Tesco leave due to lack of trade. That's why they ran it in to the ground.

Well if that was their plan it was a stupid plan because I can tell you that as a regular user of the centre the shop that kept up it's trade was Tesco , possibly because it was nearer the car park and until 2014 nearer the Tuthills and Eurogiant .

Everybody in the local area said Tesco wouldn't go until the had to and indeed that was what happened

Hotblack Desiato

Couldn't they have given Tesco (formerly Crazy Prices, formerly Quinnsworth, formerly Power Supermarkets ) notice that their lease would not be renewed at the next review? It seems weird to give a commercial tenant an indefinite right to renew, they might as well have a freehold in that case - so the landlord's only option is to whack up the rent to a silly level, if the lease even allows that...

What we're now witnessing is the culmination of a 45-year-long power struggle between the two biggest supermarket groups in the country. Dunnes play the long game, that's for sure...

L1011 wrote: »

As goes leaving the southern bit of the structure - that was the plan but Dunnes have since taken over the Molloys there which is the unit at the end and the entire top floor. That would suggest they're intending to get rid of it too.

Hmm is there a new planning application does anyone know?

Edit: does anyone know if it's possible to run a self-contained off licence and a self-contained upstairs pub on the one licence? Many Molloys and other offies bought up a pub licence so they could open, I'm just wondering if a pub and an offie which share the same footprint but are effectively separate businesses could share a licence.

Did the pub over the off-licence have two floors? it looks like the structure has two above ground floors. Despite living not that far away I never set foot in Baron Johns or its other incarnations.

L1011

You can run them on the same licence if the structure is contiguous. That Molloy's was running on the pub licence until the end and now the pub licence shows as held by Dunnes

There are a very small number of other off licences still using unconverted pub licences presumably so they can go back to being a pub if they wish - this used to be common but the costs of maintaining a pub licence are much higher than converting it to off sales only

SPDUB

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Couldn't they have given Tesco (formerly Crazy Prices, formerly Quinnsworth, formerly Power Supermarkets ) notice that their lease would not be renewed at the next review? It seems weird to give a commercial tenant an indefinite right to renew, they might as well have a freehold in that case - so the landlord's only option is to whack up the rent to a silly level, if the lease even allows that...

What we're now witnessing is the culmination of a 45-year-long power struggle between the two biggest supermarket groups in the country. Dunnes play the long game, that's for sure...

To my knowledge they were using both tactics .

I know from talking to the people involved that in the small newsagent at the crumlin road entrance that in their case it was putting up the rent to a silly level ( and IIRC he knew they had done similar to others before him ) .

As for Tuthills and Eurogiant was told by people in those shops that they wouldn't renew their leases , Tuthills apparently asked could we move unit and were told no .

As for Tesco word was their lease ran out and Dunnes was going to move into the unit though the Dunnes move happened a lot more slower than expected

Fann Linn

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Couldn't they have given Tesco (formerly Crazy Prices, formerly Quinnsworth, formerly Power Supermarkets ) notice that their lease would not be renewed at the next review? It seems weird to give a commercial tenant an indefinite right to renew, they might as well have a freehold in that case - so the landlord's only option is to whack up the rent to a silly level, if the lease even allows that...

What we're now witnessing is the culmination of a 45-year-long power struggle between the two biggest supermarket groups in the country. Dunnes play the long game, that's for sure...



Hmm is there a new planning application does anyone know?

Edit: does anyone know if it's possible to run a self-contained off licence and a self-contained upstairs pub on the one licence? Many Molloys and other offies bought up a pub licence so they could open, I'm just wondering if a pub and an offie which share the same footprint but are effectively separate businesses could share a licence.

Did the pub over the off-licence have two floors? it looks like the structure has two above ground floors. Despite living not that far away I never set foot in Baron Johns or its other incarnations.

Its a long time now but I think Baron Johns was just on the one level over the off licence, and former Mr.Donut shop.

SPDUB

Sam the Sham wrote: »

According to Cllr Pat Dunne’s (no relation) flyer that landed in my postbox today: “I have just heard that the work may come to a halt as the last remaining shop, pharmacy [sic], has not yet reached agreement with Dunne’s Stores.”

One can imagine the standoff. Hickey’s is getting almost no foot traffic other than from their most dedicated customers. So they can’t continue doing business in that location. Yet the promise of a big payout must also be factored in.

Well there's been no work in the centre for the last 6 weeks and from what I heard there is indeed a standoff

Wheety

SPDUB wrote: »

Well there's been no work in the centre for the last 6 weeks and from what I heard there is indeed a standoff

Yep. Builders walked off site because they couldn't do any work. It's the Pharmacist refusing to budge.

They were offered space in the Dunnes until the refurbishment is finished but won't accept.

cherryghost

Stupid. Don't they realize a revamp, relocation and reopening of the centre will be GOOD for their business??

G-Man

Besides the building work is the car park or old swimming pool being touched..

Have council any plans to upgrade the area.

Wheety

G-Man wrote: »

Besides the building work is the car park or old swimming pool being touched..

Have council any plans to upgrade the area.

The entrance to the car park at the swimming pool is blocked off now. I heard the library is moving up from Dolphin's barn, so they might be on that side?

L1011

cherryghost wrote: »

Stupid. Don't they realize a revamp, relocation and reopening of the centre will be GOOD for their business??

Only if they can do the move back/forth with zero downtime otherwise people will move prescriptions elsewhere and be extremely hard to get back

Dunnes would need to front up for mirrored IT systems, stock etc in the new location to let them move overnight. Done for the Hickeys in the old Dundalk S/C

SPDUB

L1011 wrote: »

Only if they can do the move back/forth with zero downtime otherwise people will move prescriptions elsewhere and be extremely hard to get back

Dunnes would need to front up for mirrored IT systems, stock etc in the new location to let them move overnight. Done for the Hickeys in the old Dundalk S/C

Well I won't say that Dunnes paid for mirrored IT systems etc last time , as I don't know, but I do remember that they closed in their original shop one day and opened the next day in their current location .

I've heard they were offered the old newsagent site ( Page 2 IIRC )

L1011

In Dundalk it was Tesco as owner of the centre, generally more pragmatic than Dunnes on this sort of stuff!

Sam the Sham

Wheety wrote: »

Yep. Builders walked off site because they couldn't do any work. It's the Pharmacist refusing to budge.

They were offered space in the Dunnes until the refurbishment is finished but won't accept.

In the currently open Dunnes? Why would they not accept that?! They can't be getting any foot traffic in their current location other than from dedicated customers. The whole back of that Dunnes has space that doesn't get much use. Seems like a win-win for everyone.

D12C

Sorry for dragging up an old post, but any update on this? Has work started? I see that MCA Architects have it on their site, but no mention of dates etc

https://www.mca.ie/projects/retail/dunnes-stores/

Gavin "shels"

Part of the old SC was demolished but that's about it to date. Dunnes is in the old Tesco/Crazy Prices location.

fredkierans

I asked a member of staff in Dunnes Stores yesterday and apparently the pharmacy will be closing for good around December 12th, so hopefully that will pave the way for the redevelopment work to progress.

Sam the Sham

fredkierans wrote: »

I asked a member of staff in Dunnes Stores yesterday and apparently the pharmacy will be closing for good around December 12th, so hopefully that will pave the way for the redevelopment work to progress.

Wonder which side cracked?

Gavin "shels"

Not sure what Hickeys footfall is like, but I was in there Saturday at 5pm and there wasn't a sinner in the place. Behind the counter medicines looked fairly badly stocked and that.

Crumlin Road Pharmacy the nearest pharmacy to the SC if Hickeys was to go and AC Boles Dolphins Barn direction?

griffdaddy

I presume Texas Fred Chicken will be ok during the renovation? Their gravey should be given protected cultural status

Gavin "shels"

D12C wrote: »

Sorry for dragging up an old post, but any update on this? Has work started? I see that MCA Architects have it on their site, but no mention of dates etc

https://www.mca.ie/projects/retail/dunnes-stores/

Just coped in the link... Dublin 22!?

fredkierans

I did hear that Hickey's were at one stage offered a concession within the redeveloped Dunnes Stores, but whether this is true - and whether they agreed to it or not - remains to be seen. The MCA Architect web page showing the streetscape has been up there for years, but it does look good

Tom1991

Texas fried chicken gone now too soon.last man standing for hickeys

Sam the Sham

Tom1991 wrote: »

Texas fried chicken gone now too soon.last man standing for hickeys

Pretty sure hickeys has been gone for a couple of weeks now.

brick tamland

I imagine dunnes will go early in the new year. Cant find any confirmation of a start date of redevelopment though. Thats if it definitely gues ahead I suppose

Sam the Sham

FWIW, Texas Fried Chicken is open tonight.

LollipopJimmy

WTF? If Texas Chicken closes I will raise hell. The food is horrendous but Jesus that gravy is the best around

SPDUB

brick tamland wrote: »

I imagine dunnes will go early in the new year. Cant find any confirmation of a start date of redevelopment though. Thats if it definitely gues ahead I suppose

As far as I know neither Dunnes or Texas Fried Chicken will be closing .

Dunnes is currently in a self contained unit and that bit of the current shopping centre TFC is in is only to be refurbished ,

Hickeys did close on December 12th and since then they have kept the doors into the centre closed .

LollipopJimmy

SPDUB wrote: »

As far as I know neither Dunnes or Texas Fried Chicken will be closing .

Dunnes is currently in a self contained unit and that bit of the current shopping centre TFC is in is only to be refurbished ,

Hickeys did close on December 12th and since then they have kept the doors into the centre closed .

As far as I'm aware TFC have confirmed themselves that they will be closing

Gavin "shels"

TFC closing tomorrow as per their Facebook

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2459854050948487&id=1626479807619253

Ush1

Gavin shels wrote: »

TFC closing tomorrow as per their Facebook

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2459854050948487&id=1626479807619253

And Varadyker did nothing.

LollipopJimmy

I had to do it, went in today and got a 3 piece with a superchip. Apparently closed as of 6pm this evening

Sam the Sham

sugarman wrote: »

By the sounds of their Facebook post they're looking for a new premises elsewhere in Crumlin

Pity vacant premises are so hard to find in Crumlin...

L1011

Hot food takeout planning permission is extremely difficult to obtain particularly as a change of use (one new premises in a development would usually slip through)

r93kaey5p2izun

https://www.google.com/amp/s/extra.ie/2019/02/24/business/macaris-glasnevin-fried-chicken/amp

Is this the same outfit - Macaris objecting to them opening in Glasnevin?

ongarboy

So is the plan for the entire centre to become a Dunnes Stores only or will there separate units for other retailers also in the revamped centre?

LollipopJimmy

Miles Unimportant Gift wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/extra.ie/2019/02/24/business/macaris-glasnevin-fried-chicken/amp

Is this the same outfit - Macaris objecting to them opening in Glasnevin?

Very hard to get planning permission for take away foods as it is and any take away planning will be objected to by chippers near them. They are worse than the mafia.

ongarboy wrote: »

So is the plan for the entire centre to become a Dunnes Stores only or will there separate units for other retailers also in the revamped centre?

Very hard to find any reliable info. The assumption would be a revamped centre entirely, although you wouldn't be surprised to see a small Dunnes surrounded by apartments

Sam the Sham

FWIW, this planning permission document shows that they have an extension until 17 March 2020.

Anyone know whether that's a deadline for works to commence or for works to be completed?

Also, anyone know what happened with the sale of Ashleaf Shopping Centre, which was advertised for €10 million last summer? What happens in CSC may be related to developments there. Ashleaf seems like it's slowly going the same way that the CSC did: empty shops, closed (mostly) pub...

L1011

Generally it would be commencement.

Pete_Cavan

Sam the Sham wrote: »

FWIW, this planning permission document shows that they have an extension until 17 March 2020.

Anyone know whether that's a deadline for works to commence or for works to be completed?

The structure would have to be substantially complete, generally this is taken as having the roof on.

LollipopJimmy

Sam the Sham wrote: »

FWIW, this planning permission document shows that they have an extension until 17 March 2020.

Anyone know whether that's a deadline for works to commence or for works to be completed?

Also, anyone know what happened with the sale of Ashleaf Shopping Centre, which was advertised for €10 million last summer? What happens in CSC may be related to developments there. Ashleaf seems like it's slowly going the same way that the CSC did: empty shops, closed (mostly) pub...

Ashleaf Dunnes is one of the busiest in Dublin, thing is the rent on the other units is silly for the location/size of the centre.

G-Man

ongarboy wrote: »

So is the plan for the entire centre to become a Dunnes Stores only or will there separate units for other retailers also in the revamped centre?

2 anchors, 4 new units and 3 retained, was the plan at some stage. + 1300 m upstairs for non shopping centre offices or library or summat.

G-Man

Dunnes must be delighted in the new year.. Texas Fried Chicken gone in Crumlin and Fallon and Byrnes gone in Rathmines.

No doubt theres air minutes in there for someone to spout about the death of edges of the food experience in dublin suburbs, and Dunnes will unify all tastes in the middle ground .

Sam the Sham

G-Man wrote: »

Dunnes must be delighted in the new year.. Texas Fried Chicken gone in Crumlin and Fallon and Byrnes gone in Rathmines.

No doubt theres air minutes in there for someone to spout about the death of edges of the food experience in dublin suburbs, and Dunnes will unify all tastes in the middle ground .

The smart move in Rathmines was getting Sheridans, the baker, and butcher into the shop before Crash & Byrne opened. Probably just a coincidence but it wasn't really clear what F&B were offering that wasn't either already in the Dunne's or in the newly-expanded Hopsack.

Warrior165

I heard on good authority that work will recommence on the redevelopment very soon. Apparently, there will be apartments above the centre facing on to the Crumlin road & the Dunnes will be modelled on the Dunnes at the ilac centre.

tampopo

Is it true that the Baron Johns end is to be retained?

tampopo

Is it true that the Baron Johns end will be retained?

G-Man

Warrior165 wrote: »

I heard on good authority that work will recommence on the redevelopment very soon. Apparently, there will be apartments above the centre facing on to the Crumlin road & the Dunnes will be modelled on the Dunnes at the ilac centre.

Thats a significant departure, surely requiring new planning. Have dunnes built appartments anywhere else.

SPDUB

G-Man wrote: »

Thats a significant departure, surely requiring new planning. Have dunnes built appartments anywhere else.

It was part of their original application in 2008 but was withdrawn and replaced with the current permission in 2010 and which they got an extension of in 2015 .