Amlin Cup Semi Final - Munster v Quins, Saturday April 30th, 13:00 KO

duckysauce

shelbourneTID wrote: »

We're witnessing the end of an era here folks.

start of a new one once they get new centres

donfers

duckysauce wrote: »

start of a new one once they get new centres

and a new coach maybe, remove the cosy old boys network too and a powerful mobile flanker please, all that and I promise I'll be good santa

Quint2010

dave13 wrote: »

with fixtures in the aviva 24th, 25th, 27th and 28th May cant see a rugby game being played there that weekend

http://www.avivastadium.ie/files/Fixturelisting2010-2011.pdf

Where's Ireland WC warm up matches? Looks as though The Aviva is out then. The final will be Thomond, The RDS, Ravenhill or?..

danthefan

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Leicester did it twice

So they did.

flutered

i lurk here i rarely post so here goes, it was drilled into me 40 odd years ago if one has not a scrum one has nothing, munster has not got a scrum, the call to play warwick behind o gara was unbelieveable, one weak tackler behind another, put both on the one team sheet is a defenite recipice for defeat, the only real call mc gahan made was at the start of his regin playing an italian team, he ran at them it resulted in a comfortable win, no irish team have tried it since, hopefully kidney does that in the wc

profitius

donfers wrote: »

and a new coach maybe, remove the cosy old boys network too and a powerful mobile flanker please, all that and I promise I'll be good santa

Munster have Peter O'Mahony but won't play him since he came back from injury.

Tommy O'Donnell was playing well but then the limited Ronan comes back from injury and TOD had to make way.

Butler and Dave O'Callaghan have not featured at all for Munster.

twinytwo

durkadurka wrote: »

I really thought we were seeing a rebirth of munster in the last few months but yesterday has put things back into the doom and gloom sphere.

There was no rebirth...???

We have been kept alive thanks to the handfull of decent younger guys we have and the pride of the old guard. But these guys who made munster the giants they were have gotten old. Due to lack of forsight by those in charge a massive hole was left in the ranks.. ie new guys coming through. Which has finally bit them in the ass.

Long gone are the days where teams had to bleed to get over our try line. Where no matter what they threw at us or how many phases they went through the defensive line held. This is as far back as i can remember the lowest munster have been.

No doubt they will eventually come back but the changes have to be made now.

Cpt_Blackbeard

profitius wrote: »

Munster have Peter O'Mahony but won't play him since he came back from injury.

Tommy O'Donnell was playing well but then the limited Ronan comes back from injury and TOD had to make way.

Butler and Dave O'Callaghan have not featured at all for Munster.

TOD is the only one that seems to have any amount of power but, hopefully the other lads will bulk up over the summer. We have a lot of promising backrows in TOD, POM, Butler, DOC2.0, BOH and Buckley, and we could have similar backrow depth to what Leinster currently have in 2 years, if they all live up to their potential, receive some good coaching (hopefully from Axel) and bulk up.

Thats the optimistic view anyway.

Podge_irl

danthefan wrote: »

To be a top European team you have to do the double? There really aren't many top European teams in that case. Wasps.... anyone else?

I don't think they have to do the double, I do think they have to be there or thereabouts though. They have the squad to make a serious tilt at the ML alongside the HEC. I'd just be disappointed if they didn't make a serious effort at the ML final if they're in it cause of a HEC win hangover.

Quint2010

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

TOD is the only one that seems to have any amount of power but, hopefully the other lads will bulk up over the summer. We have a lot of promising backrows in TOD, POM, Butler, DOC2.0, BOH and Buckley, and we could have similar backrow depth to what Leinster currently have in 2 years, if they all live up to their potential, receive some good coaching (hopefully from Axel) and bulk up.

Thats the optimistic view anyway.

Thing is Leinster have unreal talent coming thru in the back row area from U19 level and backward. Gilsenan and Coughlan from Clongowes and Dan Leavy from St.Michaels are unreal players, not to mention Mike Brewer's son playing for Terenure.

Quint2010

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't think they have to do the double, I do think they have to be there or thereabouts though. They have the squad to make a serious tilt at the ML alongside the HEC. I'd just be disappointed if they didn't make a serious effort at the ML final if they're in it cause of a HEC win hangover.

If Leinster had to play Munster away in the ML final, I would make them a longer price then on winning the HC.

Podge_irl

Quint2010 wrote: »

If Leinster had to play Munster away in the ML final, I would make them a longer price then on winning the HC.

So would I. But considering Leinster are 4/9 to win the HEC that's not a huge statement to make. They would be longer odds against a lot of teams if they were playing away instead of in a neutral venue.

Munster may win the ML, but Quins are a decidedly average team who have come over to Thomond and won easily.

ambid

Quint2010 wrote: »

Where's Ireland WC warm up matches? Looks as though The Aviva is out then. The final will be Thomond, The RDS, Ravenhill or?..

Those are soccer matches. I think all Ireland's home games need to be in Lansdowne Rd for sponsorship reasons - it's part of the naming rights deal with Aviva.

profitius

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

TOD is the only one that seems to have any amount of power but, hopefully the other lads will bulk up over the summer. We have a lot of promising backrows in TOD, POM, Butler, DOC2.0, BOH and Buckley, and we could have similar backrow depth to what Leinster currently have in 2 years, if they all live up to their potential, receive some good coaching (hopefully from Axel) and bulk up.

Thats the optimistic view anyway.

In 2 years when all those start to come through Munster will have a young backrow. I think the average age of the team will be younger than most teams then.

Theres Sherry, a few new props coming through, Hanrahan, a few back 3 players too.

IMO there should be a revolution next season. I know people say its important to get to finals and semi finals but I think fans would much prefer to see an up and coming team than an aging team fail in another semi final.

budhabob

E

profitius wrote:

IMO there should be a revolution next season. I know people say its important to get to finals and semi finals but I think fans would much prefer to see an up and coming team than an aging team fail in another semi final.

I agree, I'd much rather we start to rebuild and have the seasoned players on the bench. Realistically, its the only option that makes sense when so much of the team are at that age.

GerM

budhabob wrote: »

E
I agree, I'd much rather we start to rebuild and have the seasoned players on the bench. Realistically, its the only option that makes sense when so much of the team are at that age.

I think McGahan is aware and is trying to play more youth than Munster have been. The young players have certainly got far more of a run than they would have under Kidney. For next season, which additional young players do you put in ahead of the old pros? McGahan would have to commit to dropping Wallace, POC, DOC, ROG or Leamy. Leamy is the only one I can see being dropped and there would be outcry if the others were dropped in a big clash for the likes of POM, Keatley or Nagle. If Flannery is back, he'll be hooking. Failing that Sherry could have an opportunity.

bamboozle

Very disappointing performance from Munster on Saturday, never thought i'd see them bullied off Thomand Park but its not as if this day has not been expected, the squad has aged so much together that it was inevitable. Hopefully next season there is a root and branch upheaval of the older players and a skills coach is brought in, some of the handing (Buckley, POC and Hayes spring to mind) was dreadful, simple offloads being knocked on, giving stupid forward passes, offloading in the tackle but not even looking to offload.

A lot has been said about Schmidt coming in and improving the Leinster players passing and kicking this season, Munster seriously need to up their skills levels.

In saying all that Poite had a stinker of a game, that break Coughlan made in the first 20 minutes, before Murray got a chance to pass from the resulting ruck 2 'quins players came in from offside and tackled him, yellow card and pen in front of the posts from Munster, instead Poite unbelievably gives a pen to 'quins.

sleepyman

profitius wrote: »

In 2 years when all those start to come through Munster will have a young backrow. I think the average age of the team will be younger than most teams then.

Theres Sherry, a few new props coming through, Hanrahan, a few back 3 players too.

IMO there should be a revolution next season. I know people say its important to get to finals and semi finals but I think fans would much prefer to see an up and coming team than an aging team fail in another semi final.

I can understand what you're saying but it's highly unlikely that the Munster brains trust will be as brave as that.Bill Shankly always spoke of how changes in a team should be evolutionary not revolutionary.Munster should have tried to bring a player or two each season but even that has proven beyond them.I was disappointed with the way the pack were just bullied off the park,players missing front up tackles,& the lack of execution on basic skills.Hopefullly Zebo,Nagle,Murray, O Donnell, & JJ hanrahan can make the step up.
I don't think it's all doom & gloom but there does need to be an injection of freshness brought in.
Also there has to be a questioning of the coaching-Has Jason Holland really delivered as a backs coach,we all know Lauire Fisher has been a poor forwards coach.
Is McGahan up to the job?Should we be looking for change?

profitius

GerM wrote: »

I think McGahan is aware and is trying to play more youth than Munster have been. The young players have certainly got far more of a run than they would have under Kidney. For next season, which additional young players do you put in ahead of the old pros? McGahan would have to commit to dropping Wallace, POC, DOC, ROG or Leamy. Leamy is the only one I can see being dropped and there would be outcry if the others were dropped in a big clash for the likes of POM, Keatley or Nagle. If Flannery is back, he'll be hooking. Failing that Sherry could have an opportunity.

They have to start looking at the average age of the team too. Half of Munsters squad against Quins were 30 or over. They need to start rotating the team more and having a better mix of young and old. POM, TOD, Butler etc.

As well as that clear out all the failed players. Those hanging around the fringes of the squad who are not up to HEC level rugby.

Some of the older players like POC is still only 31 and has years left. Hayes, Quinlan and Horan look to be past it. Horan is solid but I'd have him as third choice loosehead now. Du Preez has also been disappointing and done very little for Munster. Botha and a few props from the AIL academy next season could make a difference. Sherry should be given more and more games next season. He looks to have more potential than Varley. Varley tries hard but is an average thrower.

Other players like Leamy and DOC should not be automatic choices. DOC only gets up for the big games these days because he knows thats all he has to do.

Over the summer players like Dave Foley, Nagle and Butler should be locked into a weights room and told they're not coming out until they put on a few stone.

Looking at Munsters NIQ's besides Howlett and Warwick, the rest are poor quality players.

danthefan

profitius wrote: »

Du Preez has also been disappointing and done very little for Munster.

I couldn't agree more. He seems to get lots of praise but I don't see it at all. He's not that strong a scrummager and doesn't seem to do a whole lot around the pitch either.

washman3

completely underestimated Quins and the crafty O'Shea.
bring back de Villiers?? must have his €380,000 spent by now.!!!

GerM

Munster can spend all they want on an inside centre. If he doesn't have the ball, he can't do much. Their back row is looking off the pace and unable to stamp it's authority on the game in several of the crunch clashes this season. McGahan has already said they'll be signing a centre so another forward appears to be out of the equation but I think a top flanker would be a more pertinent signing for them right now and they should try to find an alternative solution to the problem at 12; they'll just find themselves in the exact same scenario in a year or two when the signing heads off. I don't think going into next season with a back row made up of Leamy, Coughlan, Ryan and Wallace all another year older will do much to change their fortunes. JDV or someone of a similar class will do a job for them but, when the big teams come, he won't be able to do much unless those ahead of him are winning their battle.

Botha's arrival will solidify the scrum but remove the counter rucking and breakdown work that an interested Tony Buckley brought on occasion. They're also going to be minus another ball carrier. POC, DOC, Botha, WdP, none particularly good ball carriers. If Flannery comes back they will lose the superior carrying of Varley. David Wallace is going to have a lot of pressure on him next season. Another forward would be a big boost to them I feel.

Hype710

Good point Ger, an effective ball carrier should be near the top of munster's priorities for next season. A younger version Xavier Rush would be ideal.

PhatPiggins

GerM wrote: »

Munster can spend all they want on an inside centre. If he doesn't have the ball, he can't do much. Their back row is looking off the pace and unable to stamp it's authority on the game in several of the crunch clashes this season. McGahan has already said they'll be signing a centre so another forward appears to be out of the equation but I think a top flanker would be a more pertinent signing for them right now and they should try to find an alternative solution to the problem at 12; they'll just find themselves in the exact same scenario in a year or two when the signing heads off. I don't think going into next season with a back row made up of Leamy, Coughlan, Ryan and Wallace all another year older will do much to change their fortunes. JDV or someone of a similar class will do a job for them but, when the big teams come, he won't be able to do much unless those ahead of him are winning their battle.

Botha's arrival will solidify the scrum but remove the counter rucking and breakdown work that an interested Tony Buckley brought on occasion. They're also going to be minus another ball carrier. POC, DOC, Botha, WdP, none particularly good ball carriers. If Flannery comes back they will lose the superior carrying of Varley. David Wallace is going to have a lot of pressure on him next season. Another forward would be a big boost to them I feel.

Rhys Ruddock, that is all.

profitius

POM, Butler and Dave O'Callaghan are good ball carriers and all offer a lineout option too. Nagle is a good ball carrier but as I said he needs to put on weight. POC has to do alot of the donkey work. Sherry too.

I agree that Munster need more players to make the hard yards. Horan would be a good example of age catching up with him. He used to score tries and always made the hard yards but hes not able anymore.

Tim Robbins

I feel some of the criticism of Munster is a bit unfair. They are top of Magners League and will probably win it. That is proof they have the best squad out the celtic nations. They didn't get the rub of the green in the Heineken and had a bad day at the office on Saturday. But things need to be put in perspective.

One thing I think Munster were great for was giving Felix Jones game time in big games. This was great to see. This was a case of putting the country first. The more co-operation between the provinces the better.

ormond lad

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I feel some of the criticism of Munster is a bit unfair. They are top of Magners League and will probably win it. That is proof they have the best squad out the celtic nations. They didn't get the rub of the green in the Heineken and had a bad day at the office on Saturday. But things need to be put in perspective.

One thing I think Munster were great for was giving Felix Jones game time in big games. This was great to see. This was a case of putting the country first. The more co-operation between the provinces the better.

We may go on to win the magners but we certaily dont have the best squad in the league, we have a middle tier of players who are not great, coughlin, billy holland, niall ronan etc who are not HEC standard and are played ahead of the younger players like paddy butler, peter o mahony who have the potential to be HEC starters in the near future .
If o mahony and butler were in leinster they would have been involved in more than 9 and 2 games respectively this season. Look at rhys ruddock for example, a year younger than o mahony yet has been involved in 16 games this season.
A major reason leinster are ahead of us is that they dont continue to play a middle tier of players who wont be regular HEC starters, they push their younger players who will be HEC starters a few years later

Cpt_Blackbeard

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I feel some of the criticism of Munster is a bit unfair. They are top of Magners League and will probably win it. That is proof they have the best squad out the celtic nations. They didn't get the rub of the green in the Heineken and had a bad day at the office on Saturday. But things need to be put in perspective.

One thing I think Munster were great for was giving Felix Jones game time in big games. This was great to see. This was a case of putting the country first. The more co-operation between the provinces the better.

Munster have the biggest squad, not the best. Jones got a shot because he is the best 15 available and Warwick has been terrible since he announced his departure. Kidney did probably make sure that Jones was played at 15 but, I wouldn't vire it as Munster trying to help Ireland.

thomond2006

ormond lad wrote: »

We may go on to win the magners but we certaily dont have the best squad in the league, we have a middle tier of players who are not great, coughlin, billy holland, niall ronan etc who are not HEC standard and are played ahead of the younger players like paddy butler, peter o mahony who have the potential to be HEC starters in the near future .
If o mahony and butler were in leinster they would have been involved in more than 9 and 2 games respectively this season. Look at rhys ruddock for example, a year younger than o mahony yet has been involved in 16 games this season.
A major reason leinster are ahead of us is that they dont continue to play a middle tier of players who wont be regular HEC starters, they push their younger players who will be HEC starters a few years later

Very good point. Hence Stephen Keogh being surplus to requirements and Ruddock and Ryan being elevated to the first team.

Ronan is a decent player at ML level and at his age won't move forward from it. No disrespect to him he's an honest player but should be behind the likes of O'Donnell and O'Mahony.

twinytwo

GerM wrote: »

Munster can spend all they want on an inside centre. If he doesn't have the ball, he can't do much. Their back row is looking off the pace and unable to stamp it's authority on the game in several of the crunch clashes this season. McGahan has already said they'll be signing a centre so another forward appears to be out of the equation but I think a top flanker would be a more pertinent signing for them right now and they should try to find an alternative solution to the problem at 12; they'll just find themselves in the exact same scenario in a year or two when the signing heads off. I don't think going into next season with a back row made up of Leamy, Coughlan, Ryan and Wallace all another year older will do much to change their fortunes. JDV or someone of a similar class will do a job for them but, when the big teams come, he won't be able to do much unless those ahead of him are winning their battle.

Botha's arrival will solidify the scrum but remove the counter rucking and breakdown work that an interested Tony Buckley brought on occasion. They're also going to be minus another ball carrier. POC, DOC, Botha, WdP, none particularly good ball carriers. If Flannery comes back they will lose the superior carrying of Varley. David Wallace is going to have a lot of pressure on him next season. Another forward would be a big boost to them I feel.

they should offer richie whatever he wants:D

Tim Robbins

thomond2006 wrote: »

Very good point. Hence Stephen Keogh being surplus to requirements and Ruddock and Ryan being elevated to the first team.

Ronan is a decent player at ML level and at his age won't move forward from it. No disrespect to him he's an honest player but should be behind the likes of O'Donnell and O'Mahony.

Ronan is an out and out 7. Wallace is a 6 and half so Ronan gave Munster options. Also he did play well in some h cup games for them.

I think Munster are in transition, no doubt but for a team in transition they are doing pretty well. They were the top team in Europe and are now probably just in the top 8.

GerM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Rhys Ruddock, that is all.

Officially: Hands the hell off you southern thieves.

Unofficially: He only signed a 1 year extension and I'm sure he's looking to see how things go next season in terms of opportunities and pecking order before committing to something long term. Munster would be a logical move if they could provide him with HEC starting rugby. He's a bruising carrier and a strong carrier. Another year of working with Gibbes could see the rougher edges knocked off him with him becoming a really excellent blindside flanker. It would be the smart move for Munster to approach him at some point.

CIARAN_BOYLE

GerM wrote: »

Officially: Hands the hell off you southern thieves.

Unofficially: He only signed a 1 year extension and I'm sure he's looking to see how things go next season in terms of opportunities and pecking order before committing to something long term. Munster would be a logical move if they could provide him with HEC starting rugby. He's a bruising carrier and a strong carrier. Another year of working with Gibbes could see the rougher edges knocked off him with him becoming a really excellent blindside flanker. It would be the smart move for Munster to approach him at some point.

Gotta agree, when it was announced that he was only signing for a year I said, he will head to Munster or Ulster unless he can get ahead of Dom Ryan and McLoughlin really moves to lock

Heaslip is Leinster's oldest backrow forward at 28, Ruddock will have to prove he is better than someone to get into the Leinster team.

Potential for Ruddock to become a second rower too though?

He's a big tall lad. With Hines leaving and Cullen not got years left in the tank, himself and McLaughlin could well join Tuohy/Richie Gray / Hines as players who can easily play 4/5/6.

I think we might well see himself or McLaughlin getting gametime in the second row next season, as well as backrow appearances.

washman3

Hines leaves for France at end of season, Perpignan i think but not certain.
Decided by IRFU..!!!

GerM

Deleted User wrote: »

Potential for Ruddock to become a second rower too though?

He's a big tall lad. With Hines leaving and Cullen not got years left in the tank, himself and McLaughlin could well join Tuohy/Richie Gray / Hines as players who can easily play 4/5/6.

I think we might well see himself or McLaughlin getting gametime in the second row next season, as well as backrow appearances.

He's 6'3" which leaves him just too small to be a dual player in my opinion. I think the minimum (at a push) is 6'4" with locks now being a minimum of 6'5" or taller nearly always. It's a pity because he probably does have the raw power there for the position but lacks that little bit of height to really be an option at lock for me. I recall at the U20 WC a couple of years ago it was actually Dom Ryan who played lock for a game when they were short with Ruddock remaining in the back row.

CIARAN_BOYLE

washman3 wrote: »

Hines leaves for France at end of season, Perpignan i think but not certain.
Decided by IRFU..!!!

Clermont and I think it was a good idea to let him go. He is 34 and NIQ, he has been a good servent and Leinster signed what we can hope is a medium term replacement in Sykes. A 26 year old lock who is a Super XV starting player.

washman3

Clermont?? wasnt sure. has been a good servent to Leinster though,hope he goes out with a HEC medal. (actually played with Perpignan before in a 1/4 or semi V Munster partnered by Mick O' D)

Podge_irl

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Heaslip is Leinster's oldest backrow forward at 28, Ruddock will have to prove he is better than someone to get into the Leinster team.

27. Though I think Jennings is 29. Would be amazed if all of Heaslip, O'Brien, Jennings, Locky, Ryan and Ruddock were still at Leinster in two years time (delighted, but amazed).

Amazotheamazing

ormond lad wrote: »

We may go on to win the magners but we certaily dont have the best squad in the league, we have a middle tier of players who are not great, coughlin, billy holland, niall ronan etc who are not HEC standard and are played ahead of the younger players like paddy butler, peter o mahony who have the potential to be HEC starters in the near future .
If o mahony and butler were in leinster they would have been involved in more than 9 and 2 games respectively this season. Look at rhys ruddock for example, a year younger than o mahony yet has been involved in 16 games this season.

While that is in one sense correct, in another sense you aren't comparing like with like.

Almost without exception, every young player in Munster is a something of a kite, big frames but incredibly light, and capable of being blown away by a stiff gust of wind.... ok, maybe I'm stretching for a comparison but for whatever reason Munster's Academy is simply not bulking up the players at the same rate that English, French or the Leinster Academy does.

Imo, playing a player shouldn't be a question of his age but his physical maturity. Ruddock might be younger than POM but he's physically more developed than him.

If POM was with Leinster he'd be starting HEC games, imo, as he's a skillful guy, but equally if POM was with Leinster, he wouldn't be going on 22 or whatever, looking like he needs a few square meals. By comparison, if Ryan had come through a Munster school he'd probably look as much as a waif
as the rest of the young-ish players in Munster.

Say what you like about McGahan's tactics, hell, there's a lot there to criticise but you can't blame him for the physical mis-education the Munster players got outside the pro set-up.

David900

GerM wrote: »

Officially: Hands the hell off you southern thieves.

Unofficially: He only signed a 1 year extension and I'm sure he's looking to see how things go next season in terms of opportunities and pecking order before committing to something long term. Munster would be a logical move if they could provide him with HEC starting rugby. He's a bruising carrier and a strong carrier. Another year of working with Gibbes could see the rougher edges knocked off him with him becoming a really excellent blindside flanker. It would be the smart move for Munster to approach him at some point.

Ruddock is one of my favourite Leinster players coming through and I'd expect big things from him in the future but I would have been fairly happy if they loaned him out for the year just like soccer. Say sign him up for 3 years and send him out for a year. He'd be a perfect fit for Munster at the moment. Although Munster fans wouldn't be happy with getting him for just a year.
I don't know why they don't have some agreement with some of the premiership clubs, like London Irish maybe, to do this. I'm pretty sure the Welsh regions have some kind of agreement like this with London Welsh. So if it can be done in the second division of English rugby, why not the first?

ormond lad

ormond lad wrote: »

We may go on to win the magners but we certaily dont have the best squad in the league, we have a middle tier of players who are not great, coughlin, billy holland, niall ronan etc who are not HEC standard and are played ahead of the younger players like paddy butler, peter o mahony who have the potential to be HEC starters in the near future .
If o mahony and butler were in leinster they would have been involved in more than 9 and 2 games respectively this season. Look at rhys ruddock for example, a year younger than o mahony yet has been involved in 16 games this season.
A major reason leinster are ahead of us is that they dont continue to play a middle tier of players who wont be regular HEC starters, they push their younger players who will be HEC starters a few years later

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

While that is in one sense correct, in another sense you aren't comparing like with like.

Almost without exception, every young player in Munster is a something of a kite, big frames but incredibly light, and capable of being blown away by a stiff gust of wind.... ok, maybe I'm stretching for a comparison but for whatever reason Munster's Academy is simply not bulking up the players at the same rate that English, French or the Leinster Academy does.

Imo, playing a player shouldn't be a question of his age but his physical maturity. Ruddock might be younger than POM but he's physically more developed than him.

If POM was with Leinster he'd be starting HEC games, imo, as he's a skillful guy, but equally if POM was with Leinster, he wouldn't be going on 22 or whatever, looking like he needs a few square meals. By comparison, if Ryan had come through a Munster school he'd probably look as much as a waif
as the rest of the young-ish players in Munster.

Say what you like about McGahan's tactics, hell, there's a lot there to criticise but you can't blame him for the physical mis-education the Munster players got outside the pro set-up.

On your last point i know we cant blame mcgahan for the state of our academy i blame kidney who didnt give a crap about it and preferred to have a young player wait a season and a half to push ahead in the production line gradually getting more gametime every week.
Apart from a few odd occasions kidney never threw a young lad into the deep end, much prefering to gradually build up a players gametime over a long period. Through this method munster had players "breaking through" to the first team at 24 or 25 instead of 21 or 22 like most other teams(and many teams even younger) which gradually built up the average age of the squad and led to the gaping hole filled with average magners standard players in the munster squad between the top lads like rog,poc all aged around 32,33,34 and the young lads like nagle,pom who are all around 20,21

JustinDee

ormond lad wrote: »

On your last point i know we cant blame mcgahan for the state of our academy i blame kidney who didnt give a crap about it and preferred to have a young player wait a season and a half to push ahead in the production line gradually getting more gametime every week.
Apart from a few odd occasions kidney never threw a young lad into the deep end, much prefering to gradually build up a players gametime over a long period. Through this method munster had players "breaking through" to the first team at 24 or 25 instead of 21 or 22 like most other teams(and many teams even younger) which gradually built up the average age of the squad and led to the gaping hole filled with average magners standard players in the munster squad between the top lads like rog,poc all aged around 32,33,34 and the young lads like nagle,pom who are all around 20,21

Great. Spend all your coaching career as a development officer. Sod the wins under the belt etc...

Taking one end of an extreme to show that the other end is fairly bizarre.

Happy medium is easily achievable.

PhatPiggins

GerM wrote: »

Officially: Hands the hell off you southern thieves.

Unofficially: He only signed a 1 year extension and I'm sure he's looking to see how things go next season in terms of opportunities and pecking order before committing to something long term. Munster would be a logical move if they could provide him with HEC starting rugby. He's a bruising carrier and a strong carrier. Another year of working with Gibbes could see the rougher edges knocked off him with him becoming a really excellent blindside flanker. It would be the smart move for Munster to approach him at some point.

What about the good of the provinces as a whole though . He's far too good to be sitting on Leinsters bench, only signed up till the end of next season as well! Come south Rhys you can be our backrow hero or stay in Leinster and be SOB and Heaslips boot boy.

Lets be honest Ruddock has the potential to be another Ferris. The sooner we get him up to international standard the better. He'd play a minimum of 20 games for Munster next season if he moved.

Jemo

He may want to stick around Leinster though for other reasons. His dad is coach of the A's and his brother is in the academy. He has already had a lot of shifting about in his life, having been at the ospreys academy so may want to stay put in one place for a while too. Both him and Dom Ryan have enormous potential and would start for most teams already though so I'd imagine the big teams (including Munster) will come looking for them soon. Ruddock in particular looks like the kind of forward Leicester might look at. I assume the 1 year contract is to establish himself a little more before he goes for a big one to get better conditions and possibly to look at a move if he isn't making the 22 regularly. It really is a wealth of resources for Leinster in this area at the moment with Jamie, SOB, Jennings, McLaughlin, Ryan and Ruddock all well capable at HEC level and only room for 3 on a regular basis. Someone mentioned a possible recapture of Rocky recently but the fact is that the Leinster backrow has developed so far that he is no longer necessary and has admitted as much himself. I wonder would he consider a stint in red? :cool: