Damage inspection

Russman

Hi all,

So, I'm cycling home from work yesterday minding my own business when BANG, I'm hit by a car . I've no recollection of the incident but witnesses say a car just completely cut across me and I was thrown up in the air and landed on the road. Anyway, after a few CT scans and x-rays it appears that thankfully I'm fine, if a little banged up (and sleepless). Saved by the helmet. I've exchanged details with the girl who hit me so its ok from that point of view.

My question is about the bike, would an LBS be suitably competent to inspect the bike for any structural damage that might not be obvious to me ? Its not a particularly high end bike, a Felt Z85, but its only 2 months old and I'm really happy with it. I'd hate to be cycling and worrying about the fork suddenly failing or something like that. Is that even possible ? Its just that I've no memory if the impact so don't know how hard the bike was hit, but fear the worst, given that I've no memory of it, it must have been pretty hard.

Its due its post-purchase service around now anyway so is my best bet just to drop it in the the shop and explain what happened and let them check it out ?

Thanks

snollup

Sorry to hear about your accident, glad your ok. Your LBS should be more then competent to inspect your bike.

dubmess

Your LBS will not be able to tell you definitively whether your carbon fork is damaged or not. You should have taken it in to be x-rayed with you

Carbon could be weakened... do not ride...

Caroline_ie

When a car hit 3 of our bikes a few years ago, the insurance company only asked us how much we paid for them and sent us a cheque for a new bike each. They were destroyed by the car hitting the back of my car ( and the bike rack ) at a traffic light. They were lucky we only had our fixies up on the rack.

I really think it depends with the insurance company. Ask them what they need. The LBS can write off the bike in a letter along with the value of it new, if there's something wrong with it, if you have taken a big impact on a carbon fork, it's very likely he will for safety. Unless you decide to press charges, or if you are hurt ( watch yourself for a few days )this should be quite quick, it was for us anyway.

TinyExplosions

As dubmess says, without an xray it will be hard to tell if there's structural damage to the carbon, so you'd be safer getting a new one (which should be covered by the drivers insurance)

Russman

Thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated.

2 Wheels Good

As someone who got hit by a car from the side back in my college days on my steel racer, which a year later split in two with me on it (going slow luckily), i'd say new frame at the very minimum.

Side Show Bob

I really don't think that any insurance company will begrudge you a full replacement of your bike given the seriousness of the incident, especially if there are witness,

kona

Id agree with the new bike route, Im sure your LBS will give you a Insurance quote for it too. You cannot be 100% sure that its not damaged with the equipment a LBS has, all we could do is confirm the frame is straight, you need some form of NDT to say if its broken or not. In which case always err on the cautious side. New Frame.
Now Get the parts stripped off the frame

langdang

TinyExplosions wrote: »

As dubmess says, without an xray it will be hard to tell if there's structural damage to the carbon, so you'd be safer getting a new one (which should be covered by the drivers insurance)

I agree, and I'd also speculate that a "Superlite aluminum frame featuring both internal and external butting plus additional shaping" would also need some sort of xray analysis to give a definite clean bill of health. Bike frames are butted to increase material in high stress areas and remove it in low stress areas, but being side-swiped or rear ended by a car does not count as normal stress. The paper thin middle parts of a tube could have been stressed and could fail down the line.

*this speculation is based on caution and Junior Cert metalwork - so take it easy if I'm wrong, metallurgical genii

nomadic

Interesting thread. I got hit on a roundabout last Friday. The idiot joined it without looking and hit my back wheel sending me into the air. I checked the bike myself and the wheels and a few other bits are knackered but I hadn't planned claiming for the whole bike. Its carbon fork only so may go the route of claiming for the whole bike. I've carbon cranks so they may be compromised too. What way do you go about it if you've upgraded loads of bits?


Just as a thread hijack, I was talking to the bloke that hit me last night and it turns out that he wasn't insured in the jeep he was driving(his bosses). He reckons his own insurance covers him to drive other vehicles. I only got the insurance information for the jeep and not his. He's looking for quotes for the stuff. Should I just get his insurance info and contact them myself?

Russman

nomadic wrote: »

Interesting thread. I got hit on a roundabout last Friday. The idiot joined it without looking and hit my back wheel sending me into the air. I checked the bike myself and the wheels and a few other bits are knackered but I hadn't planned claiming for the whole bike. Its carbon fork only so may go the route of claiming for the whole bike. I've carbon cranks so they may be compromised too. What way do you go about it if you've upgraded loads of bits?


Just as a thread hijack, I was talking to the bloke that hit me last night and it turns out that he wasn't insured in the jeep he was driving(his bosses). He reckons his own insurance covers him to drive other vehicles. I only got the insurance information for the jeep and not his. He's looking for quotes for the stuff. Should I just get his insurance info and contact them myself?

Dunno to be honest, but would be interested in knowing the answer. I imagine yer one who hit me will have a heart attack when the cost of a bike is thrown into the mix

langdang

nomadic wrote: »

Just as a thread hijack, I was talking to the bloke that hit me last night and it turns out that he wasn't insured in the jeep he was driving(his bosses). He reckons his own insurance covers him to drive other vehicles. I only got the insurance information for the jeep and not his. He's looking for quotes for the stuff. Should I just get his insurance info and contact them myself?

He probably is covered third party, but but you need his details and he should have given them to you, not the details on the jeep.

For you and the OP, should/can the incident be put on record at a Garda station, in a "we'll try to sort this out ourselves but I'd like to have it on record in case the driver changes his story/mind" way? There are initial costs - bike + trip to a doc, but you could have complications that could arise afterwards?

Russman

Thats good advice, I've no memory of exchanging numbers with her, or being collected and brought home or getting the numbers of witnesses - which I must have done as they sent me messages with their contact details !

TinyExplosions

Russman wrote: »

Dunno to be honest, but would be interested in knowing the answer. I imagine yer one who hit me will have a heart attack when the cost of a bike is thrown into the mix

That's what we thought (I was with Caroline_ie and my bike was one of the three damaged), but when on the phone with the other drivers insurers, they seemed far more interested in avoiding any personal injury claims than in the cost of a few bikes.

Best to deal with the insurance company directly if you can, as they're less likely to get emotional about it.

As an aside, we were all gearing up to get assessments and quotes from bike shops and all that, and in the end it was a 10 minute phonecall along the lines of "How much would it cost to replace? And did you have any upgrades or anything on it? Would x cover that? Thanks very much, your cheque will be in the post." -but obviously ymmv.

langdang

Russman wrote: »

Thats good advice, I've no memory of exchanging numbers with her, or being collected and brought home or getting the numbers of witnesses - which I must have done as they sent me messages with their contact details !

Yikes! :eek: That was a nasty slap to the head so! Took a nasty one myself before (no third party involved) and apart from minor temporary confusion, swelling and a thumping headache I was OK. You mention "sleepless" in the first post - I had a noise in my head that sounded like someone hammering 2big planks together for a few nights, very hard to sleep!

langdang

TinyExplosions wrote: »

when on the phone with the other drivers insurers, they seemed far more interested in avoiding any personal injury claims than in the cost of a few bikes.

This seems to be the biggy, even in minor car crashes. The insurers will brick it far more over a crash + head impact sufficient for a temporary black out than the price of a bike.
In this case definitely DO go through the insurer, DON'T humour the other party by helping them avoid a loss of NCB - if any long term effects should develop, the cost of the bike etc will pale into insignificance

niceonetom

Russman wrote: »

Dunno to be honest, but would be interested in knowing the answer. I imagine yer one who hit me will have a heart attack when the cost of a bike is thrown into the mix

Firstly, if she pays out her own pocket that's her own call - she could choose to have her insurer pay.

Secondly, a little perspective. Bikes are NOT expensive. Serious injury is expensive. Long periods of time unable to work are expensive. Permanent disability is expensive.

Both you and the driver should consider yourselves lucky here and not be worrying about trifling sums or whether replacement of some part or other is an absolute necessity. If in doubt - any doubt at all - replace it.

Any incident severe enough to erase itself from your memory should warrant, I think, fulsome use of the insurance system.

dubmess

Had a courier in the shop yesterday who'd been in a crash.

A woman had half-overtaken him, seen a parking spot and turned straight in on top of him.

Steel frame was bent, he was alright.

She gave him a lift to the shop, we discussed how much a replacement new frame would be, she went to an ATM, got cash, a fizzy drink and a mars bar for the courier, gave him €50 cash to cover the rest of his day and paid for his new frame.
Everyone was happy.
One in a million...

nomadic

Well in my case I've a load of stitches in my elbow. I can't bend my arm for the moment but there shouldn't be any lasting effects (I hope). My helmet saved my head big time (not trying to start that argument). I reported it to the gardai who considered it an "accident". I better get your mans insurance details so...

langdang

As long as the courier didn't start asking people "Would you like to RIDE with BATMAN?" as soon as she left the shop then all is good:D What ad was that in, an old snickers ad?
FOUND : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iumv1TU8ILs

tomasrojo

I thought police everywhere were discouraged from using the term "accident" now? In the UK, even the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents tries to avoid the term now, I think.

Russman

Of course, you're dead right Niceonetom, in the greater scheme of things the price of bikes etc is trivial. Absolutely perspective is needed. I'm less than 24 hours removed from it so still probably a little shook up mentally.

Thanks again to everyone who has replied, as always its much appreciated.

macken04

Good to hear all who had accidents are ok. OP you should contact your point of purchase and request they quote you a price to get the frame and other damaged parts replaced. This should be on company headed paper. I had a small accident and a Garda from rathmines explained the process to me if I wished to claim but it was not worth the stress of a bent handle bar.

Hope all works out for you in the end

verywidefeet

Its you call dude you need to have the dealer look at it for you but if the wheels are buckled or there is any sign of cracking in the clear coat or dull sounds from the tubing I would not cycle it.

I'd Keep the bike till all the claims are settled then cut any
load bearing carbon components with a hacksaw as they'd probably end up on Fleabay. I'd a really nice Carbon fork I was given with a very badly crashed bike. The fork looked like brand new even sounded fine when tapped but the frame was buckled & folded from a frontal crash so I just cut it up with a hacksaw as fractured carbon + speed + pothole = Bad outcome.


Although some people have different opinions about carbon repair

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esJJxqPR2-4

Here's an interesting comparison of Carbon, Steel and Alloy
I know your just talking about a fork but the principal is the same.
Its in German but you'll get the Idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvk63bmVpck



Good luck with your recovery

Thank God for cycle helmets

Caroline_ie

dubmess wrote: »

Had a courier in the shop yesterday who'd been in a crash.

A woman had half-overtaken him, seen a parking spot and turned straight in on top of him.

Steel frame was bent, he was alright.

She gave him a lift to the shop, we discussed how much a replacement new frame would be, she went to an ATM, got cash, a fizzy drink and a mars bar for the courier, gave him €50 cash to cover the rest of his day and paid for his new frame.
Everyone was happy.
One in a million...

Similar thing happened to me a couple of years ago. A cab drove straight into the side of me, knock me over, and totalled my wheels, thankfully I was ok. He drove me to the garda station to report the incident and 300 quid the next day cash after making sure I was ok for a new pair of wheels, I only asked me for 250 but gave me 50 extra.
There are at least two :P

nomadic

What way does it work if the person wants to pay for damages themselves when an injury is involved?
I was just onto the driver that hit me looking for his insurance details but he wants to settle it himself. He's looking for quotes for the bike? Will any bike shop do a quote for a bike even if they don't stock that brand?

TinyExplosions

nomadic wrote: »

What way does it work if the person wants to pay for damages themselves when an injury is involved?
I was just onto the driver that hit me looking for his insurance details but he wants to settle it himself. He's looking for quotes for the bike? Will any bike shop do a quote for a bike even if they don't stock that brand?

Personally, I'd be quite firm and say that I'd prefer to deal with his insurance company, given that there's medical bills etc, simply to save any potential hassle when things start adding up

langdang

nomadic wrote: »

What way does it work if the person wants to pay for damages themselves when an injury is involved?
I was just onto the driver that hit me looking for his insurance details but he wants to settle it himself. He's looking for quotes for the bike? Will any bike shop do a quote for a bike even if they don't stock that brand?

nomadic, if you humour him by avoiding insurance you may find it difficult/impossible if there is a long term issue with your elbow/shoulder/back from the fall.

Is it possible to put it on record with the insurance without immediately claiming anything, other than stating the facts - knocked from bike, stitches to elbow, driver to re-imburse for bike?

If the guy is resisting supplying his insurance details I would be smelling a large rodent...

seamus

Any bike shop can do a quote for an equivalent bike, but obviously they won't be able to quote for the same bike because they don't know the prices.

Get the other driver's insurance details anyway. As there is injury involved, there is the potential that there will be injuries further down the line. You mention you can't bend your arm at the moment.
That will likely leave you with difficulties for a couple of weeks and I would strongly suggest a referral to a physio to assess if there's any potential long term damage. You could find yourself with long-term elbow damage and having to pay out of your own pocket because you settled with the guy two years beforehand.

Usually when going through insurance, personal injuries remain open until a doctor has signed off that there are not likely to be any future injuries. Or, if this potential is unknown, they'll pay a settlement amount to cover the likely cost of long-term problems.

Don't just accept the cost of the bike and move on. Personal injuries, even though they're a bad word are arguably far more irritating than a broken bike cos they can stick with you for ages.

I would get the quote for the bike but mention to the guy that you will also have medical bills for him to pay in a few weeks when you get a final check from a GP/Physio.

Don't be surprised if he hits the roof about medical bills.

nomadic

seamus wrote: »

Don't just accept the cost of the bike and move on. Personal injuries, even though they're a bad word are arguably far more irritating than a broken bike cos they can stick with you for ages.

I would get the quote for the bike but mention to the guy that you will also have medical bills for him to pay in a few weeks when you get a final check from a GP/Physio.

Don't be surprised if he hits the roof about medical bills.

I'll get a quote for the whole lot and no doubt that'll scare the crap out of him.

Personal Injuries and Claiming are definitely bad words these days. Its like your seen as scamming for as much money as you can get. I almost feel guilty looking for anything over the cost of the damage. Is there any way of claiming against 6 months wasted training? I missed the Gorey 3 day because of this idiot.

TinyExplosions

nomadic wrote: »

I'll get a quote for the whole lot and no doubt that'll scare the crap out of him.

Personal Injuries and Claiming are definitely bad words these days. Its like your seen as scamming for as much money as you can get. I almost feel guilty looking for anything over the cost of the damage. Is there any way of claiming against 6 months wasted training? I missed the Gorey 3 day because of this idiot.

They are bad words, and I've been left out of pocket in the past through not wanting to make a big deal out of an accident (it wasn't huge sums of money, but a couple of doctors visits and a few weeks of physio add up very quickly).

Particularly as this may take some time to get resolved, I still strongly think you should be talking to the insurer -they know far more about these things than some punter who may start kicking up a fuss if you're back looking for more money in 6 months to pay for a physio etc

seamus

nomadic wrote: »

Is there any way of claiming against 6 months wasted training? I missed the Gorey 3 day because of this idiot.

I doubt it, but if you go through an insurer they are much freer about giving you money to shut up and go away.
Although there's no intrinsic monetary value on the time spent missing out on hobbies, I think it's fair to say that you deserve some kind of compensation for having to limp around the place for a month or two while there's glorious sunshine outside that you've can't avail of.

But that's where "personal injuries" get their bad name from; massive sums of money for effectively nothing.

nomadic

seamus wrote: »

But that's where "personal injuries" get their bad name from; massive sums of money for effectively nothing.

Effectively nothing, yet how much would I have paid for this not to have happened and to have raced at the weekend. Quite a bit.

dubmess

As an aside, if you do go down the insurance route and he decides to fight it, and you end up in court, be prepared to wait 2-5 years for any resolution.

I've known many cyclists over the years who've gone down this road and ended up regretting it when 3/4 years had passed and still nothing had come of it.

I'm not saying don't stick it out, I'm just saying be prepared for a long drawn out pain in the ass...

langdang

dubmess wrote: »

As an aside, if you do go down the insurance route and he decides to fight it, and you end up in court, be prepared to wait 2-5 years for any resolution.

I've known many cyclists over the years who've gone down this road and ended up regretting it when 3/4 years had passed and still nothing had come of it.

I'm not saying don't stick it out, I'm just saying be prepared for a long drawn out pain in the ass...

I thought you didn't have much choice whether your insurance company paid out or not? As previously stated, and from my own experience, they seem happy enough to dole out cash for minor car-on-car accidents?

TinyExplosions

dubmess wrote: »

As an aside, if you do go down the insurance route and he decides to fight it, and you end up in court, be prepared to wait 2-5 years for any resolution.

I've known many cyclists over the years who've gone down this road and ended up regretting it when 3/4 years had passed and still nothing had come of it.

I'm not saying don't stick it out, I'm just saying be prepared for a long drawn out pain in the ass...

That's mostly with larger personal injury claims though, if it's just for a bike and a few quid of medical bills, you should get it resolved fairly quickly... if it's looking to be more than a few grand though, you could be in for the long haul

High Nellie

Russman wrote: »

Hi all,

So, I'm cycling home from work yesterday minding my own business when BANG, I'm hit by a car . I've no recollection of the incident but witnesses say a car just completely cut across me and I was thrown up in the air and landed on the road. Anyway, after a few CT scans and x-rays it appears that thankfully I'm fine, if a little banged up (and sleepless). Saved by the helmet. I've exchanged details with the girl who hit me so its ok from that point of view.

My question is about the bike, would an LBS be suitably competent to inspect the bike for any structural damage that might not be obvious to me ? Its not a particularly high end bike, a Felt Z85, but its only 2 months old and I'm really happy with it. I'd hate to be cycling and worrying about the fork suddenly failing or something like that. Is that even possible ? Its just that I've no memory if the impact so don't know how hard the bike was hit, but fear the worst, given that I've no memory of it, it must have been pretty hard.

Its due its post-purchase service around now anyway so is my best bet just to drop it in the the shop and explain what happened and let them check it out ?

Thanks

Just keep in mind that it is the person who hit you who is liable for your bike, and that is the person you should chase (presuming that you think the bike should be replaced which I think it should without question). So, go after the offender and let her either pay up or haggle with her insurance company.

blorg

It will only take years if he denies liability, which doesn't look likely. If liability is accepted it is handled by the Injuries Board without solicitors or courts involved. It still takes on average 6 months but you would need that long anyway to have a firm idea of ongoing injuries if any. Stitches in your arm and can't bend it sounds serious enough for compensation- should you want to pursue it.

I'd wait until you are sure your arm is better before waiving any right to claim compensation for the injury, at the least.

Beasty

I had a claim that initially went to the Personal Injuries Board - there were 2 defendents, and they could not agree between them which one was liable. We had to force the issue by serving court papers in the end. One of the defendants then went into liquidation, but their insurance company did pay up. The whole process took 18 months, although it would have been quicker if the Injuries Board had been allowed to get on with it.

ccull123

Just out of interest where did the accident happen? Might b on my route and knowledge is power:) petrified of being knocked off my bike... I was put through the windscreen of a car about ten years ago and have only managed to get back in the saddle about 5 months ago! Great to be back:)

Russman

It was on the long straight road between St Mary's rugby club and Walkinstown Roundabout, can't remember the name of the road, actually I don't know the name of the road now that I think about it.

ccull123

I know it well:) used to cycle that route a lot. It's either templeville rd or st peters rd depending on how close to walkinstown roundabout u were. Keep up the cycle and def at the very minimum get ur lbs to give it the once over. Safe cycling!!

nomadic

I'm going to drag this topic up again instead of starting a new one.

I was involved in an "accident" a few weeks ago where the wheels were written off but the rest of the bike seems grand. I was going to look for the cost of the bike off the insurance as the warranty would be null and void for the bike now that it has been involved in a traffic accident. I am still riding the bike though so I may just claim for the wheels and damage done. Could I still claim for the whole bike even though I'm riding it with some bits replaced?