Can someone explain this?

CpcRc

Was watching some airsoft videos from airsoftGI and saw this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8ZkKpfnKSI&feature=relmfu


I was wondering if anyone could describe the system it uses and how it is different and/or similar to other systems?

Thanks:)

Puding

actually very similar to paintball markets, basically classic airsoft brought up to date with modern technology and an external tank

CpcRc

How do they operate exactly? I'm just really curious about stuff like this.

NakedDex

21 BPS? Braps per second?


Basically it works using HPA (high pressure air) as a power source, and a solenoid controlled valve (probably a butterfly) to control the firing.
The trigger is simply acting as a switch control for the solenoid, which in turn opens the valve. The valve dumps a controlled amount of air through the air nozzle before shutting. That air flow is controllable in duration by tuning the solenoid controller, and in pressure by adjusting the regulator.
By adjusting those two together, you can alter the muzzle energy and rate of fire with relative ease.

It's a clever system, and one which takes away a few of the primary issues with gas system rifles as they exist in airsoft today (cool down, mag reliability, seals, seers etc). It does still have the major bane of classics in most peoples eyes: the tank and hose. It also doesn't have any blowback mechanism, which is arguably why it stands the best chance of being reliable.
The only real advantage it has over an AEG is the ability to tune it on-the-fly. It's a pretty serious advantage if you're doing a lot of trips to sites of varying power limits, but of no real use to us.


I'm not sure that ever really got off the ground though, did it? They've been talking about that system for about two years now?

CpcRc

NakedDex wrote: »

21 BPS? Braps per second?


Basically it works using HPA (high pressure air) as a power source, and a solenoid controlled valve (probably a butterfly) to control the firing.
The trigger is simply acting as a switch control for the solenoid, which in turn opens the valve. The valve dumps a controlled amount of air through the air nozzle before shutting. That air flow is controllable in duration by tuning the solenoid controller, and in pressure by adjusting the regulator.
By adjusting those two together, you can alter the muzzle energy and rate of fire with relative ease.

It's a clever system, and one which takes away a few of the primary issues with gas system rifles as they exist in airsoft today (cool down, mag reliability, seals, seers etc). It does still have the major bane of classics in most peoples eyes: the tank and hose. It also doesn't have any blowback mechanism, which is arguably why it stands the best chance of being reliable.
The only real advantage it has over an AEG is the ability to tune it on-the-fly. It's a pretty serious advantage if you're doing a lot of trips to sites of varying power limits, but of no real use to us.


I'm not sure that ever really got off the ground though, did it? They've been talking about that system for about two years now?

Thanks, really wanted to know what system is being used and what's contained it.

The video is only about 3-4 days old so I assume someone is thinking of doing more than talking if a retailer got their hands on one?

How would it be used as a portable system? I assume that long hose attached to it is the air supply?

.22 Lover

Is that system available?
Its perfect for my requirements of instant power.(EDIT) i read the description i see that it,s not gonna be retailed for a long time.

NakedDex

Instant power? I'm not sure I follow. What application requires "instant power" that an AEG gearbox or bolt action spring rifle could not deliver?

CpcRc wrote: »

The video is only about 3-4 days old so I assume someone is thinking of doing more than talking if a retailer got their hands on one?

How would it be used as a portable system? I assume that long hose attached to it is the air supply?

PolarStar haven't updated their site for a years. Unless they're working it under licence to someone else, or are just lazier about the commercial end of their business than the R&D end, I wouldn't expect it any time soon.
I heard talk about this (or at least a very similar system) back in '08, and one before that again which was compared to the old Daytonagun system (which was massively different).

The operator in the video was using it as a portable system. The coiled air-line under his arm fed from the pistol grip back to a small tank on his back held in a MOLLE pouch (there are similar already available for some paintball systems). It's a throwback to the old, original Classic Airsoft devices.

.22 Lover

Maby its beacause im using an underpowered battery and but im sick of spool up time and down time i could see a system like this to be almost perfect for a DMR where quick follow shots are instant even with the quickest AEG there is still a noticeable time between triger being pulled and bb out the barrel even thought this system is abit chunky and not exactly perfect for milsim it still has uses on the modern airsoft battlefield with its adustable rate of fire and fps it also good for overseas.


(please excause me if im speaking ****e as i been working all day and its late)

NakedDex

You can achieve a lightning fast trigger response with an AEG, it just needs to be set up properly to achieve it. I've done it, and many others have done it.
I have two DMR's, but I've modded several of my rifles for the fastest trigger response possible because I shoot semi out of habit, and have no care for any delayed trigger response.

There's not a lot to it really. Trigger response is all down to refining the system you already have. Swapping the motor for an excellent quality high-speed, installing a MOSFET with active breaking (and other options if you don't mind spending a few bob extra), upgrading the wiring, switching to 11.1V high discharge LiPo's, properly shimming the gearbox, high quality bearings and short stroking the piston are all options that will improve trigger response. Their effects are cumulative, so the more the merrier.

The motor will make an immediate and noticeable difference, and it's the easiest change on the list to make. Couple that with a MOSFET, LiPo and a well shimmed gearbox and you'll probably find that's already enough to satiate your lust for response times.

CpcRc

NakedDex wrote: »

The operator in the video was using it as a portable system. The coiled air-line under his arm fed from the pistol grip back to a small tank on his back held in a MOLLE pouch (there are similar already available for some paintball systems). It's a throwback to the old, original Classic Airsoft devices.

When I saw the coil going pretty much as far as the side of the frame I assumed it was attached to something else. Didn't notice that it was leading into his back.

And I agree about all those little mods reducing the response time of the AEG trigger.

The systema revolution gearbox is a nice piece of kit too with a very snappy response, and it's just below the PTW line of systema equipment.

CpcRc

This time with more examples of their HPA fusion engine, as they're calling it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=327tqjowifI&NR=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

(watch to the end)

NakedDex

The Systema box is horrendously overpriced and unreliable. It's performance is nothing you couldn't achieve with a few mods totalling a third of the price.

Given that they're drop-in boxes for existing AEG's, it'll be interesting if they do come out. I'm still not convinced of their usefulness here. The potential to go to 400fps with an adjustable rate of fire is really only of interest to someone travelling abroad for games regularly, which has it's own issues with transporting the tank on an aircraft and finding somewhere to fill it when there (dive shops being the most likely spots).

HPA systems also require investment in some extra things that aren't glaringly obvious, like buying a filtered air compressor and an appropriate regulator valve and fill kit to charge your tank, and that's not going to be cheap either. You may have to invest in extra tanks too, unless you don't mind lugging the compressor in the car to a site.

CpcRc

I know systema are very expensive, but it's a good trigger response. And I'll hand it too you that it's achievable with mods, the more time consuming but worthwhile way too, I'll admit

Everything in airsoft will cost a bit more than first intended usually, doesn't it?

I know that for our limits it isn't ideal, but the reliability and consistent performance (less than +/- 3 fps difference between individual shots on full auto) is something good.

It's just something new to me that looked interesting.

NakedDex

It's interesting, certainly. Reliable and consistent remains to be see, however. If it's more consistent than a properly maintained and tuned AEG, I'll be both impressed and, more strongly, surprised. A deviation of +/-3fps, I'll grant you, is impressive for a gas system of any description, but my SR25 rarely deviates beyond +/-2fps already. Ditto my M7 and P90.
It's something that, if I had a ton of spare cash, I'd invest in out of pure curiosity, but I'd still skirmish the AEG.


As for the Systema Revolution gearboxes, they're not just expensive. They're, as I said, overpriced. They're honestly not worth half of their asking price. They're desperately unreliable and notorious for incompatibility with other parts due to bore-up cylinders being used. You'd get the same performance with a lot more reliability from one of the flagship airsoft suppliers like VFC, G&G, G&P etc, and with full parts compatibility.

It's like buying a brand new Alfa Spider. It'll look good and the name will give you bragging rights, but it'll inevitably break down regularly and cost you as much in parts as it would have been to get a car with similar or better spec and performance that wouldn't have broken down in the first place.
Then you'll find yourself using that most common Alfa phrase on your gearbox; "...oh but when it's working it's very good."

CpcRc

Another auto example are the classic Dodge chargers, look good and have definite name bragging rights, but a lot of days mightn't even start for you.

I was wondering today though, could this system be used for an airsoft shotgun replica?

Possibly a way to produce an auto sytem like the atchisson assault shotgun?
It could use a TM multi shot system but run it off the HPA system?